Aggravated

[Maelwys]

2 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

AGAIN, if Null didn't exist. I would concede the point. 

One of my favourite toons is a Bot/Kin MM.
They have Group Fly on all the time because it makes the Henchmen far more survivable and much easier to place for Fulcrums.
However I've been the melee-only-Scrapper-with-poor-suppressed-movement-speed too; a long long time before Null existed.

I can see both sides of the argument here; and personally I would probably err on the side of "if it annoys you enough Null it, otherwise stop whinging"

That said, ultimately THIS PARTICULAR scenario smells of a distinct lack of communication. The Leader of the TF failed to communicate just how bloody annoying they (or the rest of the team) were finding your usage of Group Fly; and you failed to communicate just how important leaving it on was to you. They're perfectly within their rights to boot you for not listening/obeying; and you're perfectly within your rights to 1-star them and complain on the forums about it.
 

Also, and I cannot stress this enough: it's spelt "AGGRAVATED".

[Gravitus]

4 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

No, sorry.  Group fly settings is but one of Null's benefits, and a minor one at that, at least in my opinion.  You can change alignments, check Dimensional Warder Progress, Speed buffs, Group Fly, and Mystic Fortune opt outs, and removing the extra pop up power tray.

 

you're right...it's not the sole purpose...I made the appropriate edit. 

[Skyhawke]

10 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

So I don't end up addressing the same terrible argument more than once...

 

One of the main purposes for Null's existence is so GF users can play their toon hassle free without effecting others. So, both sides can get what they want. That's the purpose of Null. That's a fact, not an opinion. Hassle free includes asking permission to play my build. It's not the same as purposely using my powers to grief. I am playing the game the way it was intended to be played. It IS a strategically viable method to have ranged attackers out of melee range of enemies on open maps. 

 

AGAIN, if Null didn't exist. I would concede the point. 

 

So people who have an issue with GF fall into 1 of 2 camps.

 

1. You either chose not to/forgot to turn it off

 

OR

 

2. You didn't know you could turn it off

 

I have a strong suspicion those in camp 1 outnumber those in camp 2...because camp 2 people aren't generally leading TFs. Regardless, ignorance of something has never been a viable defense to affect others in a negative way. And if you made an error and forgot, I shouldn't have to be punished for someone else's forgetfulness. 

 

If a solution exists that appeases all involved, that becomes the moral choice. Ergo Null. 

 

Like I said earlier, I would even been gracious enough to quit the first mission if it was brought up. But after you've used my services to help you succeed in your mission for 75% of the mission, I feel like you are morally obligated to let me finish out unless I was actually causing us to lose. 

 

Wow...someone definitely wouldn't inherit a chocolate factory...

[Techwright]

42 minutes ago, lemming said:

GF is one of those powers that needs some modifications just so we avoid these threads.

 

Odd idea which would only work with Ouro & TFs;  Checkboxs added like "No Travel Powers" to have "No Group Fly, No Knockback, no .... you get the idea..."

(I'd prefer more elegant solutions though)

I'm trying to recall the details, but was there not a coding reason the "no group fly" option had to be run through Null the Gull and not via some other, probably more convenient means?  I seem to recall a forum discussion of that a few months back.  I'm certainly one who'd embrace the ability to alter group fly where I stand.  We already have a radio button for teleport that appears when a team invitation does.  A group fly option there would be sweet, though I totally understand that this is ancient code and it might only function so far.

 

5 minutes ago, PyroNugget said:

before i start --i have 2 lvl 50 MM with group fly ( bots/FF and mercs/TA)   i built them for it

 

the onus to use group fly on a team is on YOU. it is very disruptive to how others play

you join someone else's team  and they ask to turn it off , you turn it off.just like going to someone's house and they say "no shoes inside"--do you argue with them?debate your side of how uncomfortable it is to do that?.NO.. you take your shoes off.

 

Group Fly is not the only highly controversial ability.  Knock Back, for example, is insanely controversial.   And with a main character that is an Energy/Energy blaster, I'm stuck with it.  And yes, I've been booted from teams (admittedly years ago) for knocking back opponents out of melee fighters' range.  That left me with a choice.  My two solutions to it actually improved my fighting technique while greatly improving my relationship to my teammates. Team's actually like what I do in combat now. Point being, when teamed, think in terms of the team's need.  It may, surprisingly, improve your own satisfaction.

 

26 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

I've played CoH for a decade plus. All I have really known Null to do was help me switch sides and let me know who I need to kill in terms of AVs for the badge. You presume way too much about a player base.

You basically highlight the need for some sort of explanation to new characters.  I say "characters" and not "players" because it is too easy even for long-term players to forget that setting when starting a new character.  I know I've done it.  I've been in Rikti and Nemesis invasion fights on Talos hill and suddenly started floating to my confusion.    I'm wondering if a message timed to the moment a character is asked if they want to flag as helper or needing help might be a reasonable start.  Even then, new players might not know how to get to Pocket D to talk to Null. 

 

Perhaps a slash command, such as that which bring the AH menu to the HUD, might work to likewise bring Null's menu front and center?

[Gravitus]

1 minute ago, Maelwys said:

 

Also, and I cannot stress this enough: it's spelt "AGGRAVATED".

The public education system has failed me

[Nemu]

19 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

If a solution exists that appeases all involved, that becomes the moral choice.

Reading your initial post I would have thought it was kicking you off the team. 😁

[Doomguide2005]

10 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

The public education system has failed me all of us (and I do not mean the teachers and staff of the 'system')

Fixed that up a bit for us 

[lemming]

13 minutes ago, Techwright said:

I'm trying to recall the details, but was there not a coding reason the "no group fly" option had to be run through Null the Gull and not via some other, probably more convenient means?  I seem to recall a forum discussion of that a few months back.  I'm certainly one who'd embrace the ability to alter group fly where I stand.  We already have a radio button for teleport that appears when a team invitation does.  A group fly option there would be sweet, though I totally understand that this is ancient code and it might only function so far.

There were some coding issues.   The TP question was added way in the past when people were griefing people and dropping them into instadeath situations.

It would be nice if it was just a normal option right near the TP Prompt one.

[Gravitus]

20 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

No, sorry.  Group fly settings is but one of Null's benefits, and a minor one at that, at least in my opinion.  You can change alignments, check Dimensional Warder Progress, Speed buffs, Group Fly, and Mystic Fortune opt outs, and removing the extra pop up power tray.

 

Edit:  Since you refuse to acknowledge that you may have been wrong, despite pretty much everyone saying so, I will cease responding and let you vent in peace.

Right and Wrong are determined by the merits of the argument, not the number of people who agree or disagree. If someone presents a valid argument, I'll concede it. Turns out very few people use GF, so expecting a lot of people to agree with me was probably never going to happen. It's a very niche power.

[Seed22]

2 hours ago, Gravitus said:

About the door swinging both ways...I think that only becomes a viable argument if Null didn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, they didn't take the correct steps. 

This response right here is just what I was talking about on the discord. People who have this main character syndrome and have no understanding or care for others then always acting like the victim.

 

You fucked around and found out, pretty simple open shut right wrong case here. They asked you to stop, you thought you were better and said no, you found out. Pretty simple if you ask me.

 

It’s not on them, it’s really all on you in this situation.

[Luminara]

The argumentative and narcissistic follow-ups to the original post imply that the other side of this story is very different from what was described.

 

Y'all might want to pass on this.

[Excraft]

2 hours ago, Gravitus said:

About the door swinging both ways...I think that only becomes a viable argument if Null didn't exist. As far as I'm concerned, they didn't take the correct steps. 

 

The reason turning off group fly at Null the gull is even an option is because narcissists like yourself would rather grief and inconvenience everyone else instead of being courteous to your fellow players.

[Seed22]

18 minutes ago, Luminara said:

The argumentative and narcissistic follow-ups to the original post imply that the other side of this story is very different from what was described.

 

Y'all might want to pass on this.

Yeah seeing the followups really reaffirmed what I said, they have main character syndrome. Best to ignore

[Nemu]

Through this something miraculous happened:

The "anti-farmers" and "pro-farmers" banded together against a common thingy.

 

We need more posts like this to perpetuate this unity.

 

Of course that's not going to happen! So let me change the narrative.

 

"I was on a farm with Group Fly and I put repulsion field on the farmer and then I got booted by the farmer because he hated what I was doing, but I did nothing wrong!"

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Quote

  

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

Also, and I cannot stress this enough: it's spelt "AGGRAVATED".

The public education system has failed me

If Spellcheck didn't exist. I would concede the point.  😉

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

I'm trying to recall the details, but was there not a coding reason the "no group fly" option had to be run through Null the Gull and not via some other, probably more convenient means?

 

From long ago discussions I'm only vaguely remembering, the reason for Null the Gull is it is a simple way to add in some features without worrying about the UI, as there's a dialogue to enact the changes (usually an info investigation, mode change, or hidden Power enable/disable).

 

I've thought about this and I personally think the disabling of Group Fly would be better on the Toon using Group Fly, where the default is to only affect the Toon and its Pets.  Needing to take an action to turn on it affecting other Players and their Pets.

[Maelwys]

16 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 

From long ago discussions I'm only vaguely remembering, the reason for Null the Gull is it is a simple way to add in some features without worrying about the UI, as there's a dialogue to enact the changes (usually an info investigation, mode change, or hidden Power enable/disable).

Yups. 

Was from Zwillinger apparently: "to answer the question as to why Null's wonderful reality bending capabilities are not put into a UI/Options window: UI work takes a significant amount of time. Creating an NPC that offers these toggles takes significantly less time."

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Null_the_Gull#Historical
 

Edited Monday at 07:48 PM by Maelwys

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Turns out very few people use GF, so expecting a lot of people to agree with me was probably never going to happen. It's a very niche power.

The ones in this thread who do use it disagree with you. 

[Gravitus]

37 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

If Spellcheck didn't exist. I would concede the point.  😉

Yeah, oddly enough I didn't notice a red squiggly. Ah well. 

[Gravitus]

Not agreeing with several of you doesn't make me a narcissist.

 

Yes, I am passionate about this particular opinion I have about the game. I've been nothing but civil. Some of you need to grow up. 

[Doc Spectre]

For me the good thing that I learned from this post is that I can turn off Group Fly at Null the Gull (and I have been a player since the game went live).

The bad thing is I will probably forget in a week. 😏

[Gravitus]

1 minute ago, Doc Spectre said:

For me the good thing that I learned from this post is that I can turn off Group Fly at Null the Gull (and I have been a player since the game went live).

The bad thing is I will probably forget in a week. 😏

Well now that you know about it, if you forgot, would you get mad at someone for using it still? 

[ZacKing]

5 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Not agreeing with several of you doesn't make me a narcissist.

Disagreement is fine.  Telling others that they're somehow "morally wrong" because they didn't cater to you and booted you when you couldn't agree to a simple request is the narcissistic part. 

[Without_Pause]

7 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

Not agreeing with several of you doesn't make me a narcissist.

Thinking you are in the right after no one really comes to your aid might.

[Gravitus]

Just now, Without_Pause said:

Thinking you are in the right after no one really comes to your aid might.

Congrats on subscribing to the ad populum fallacy.