Aggravated

[Gravitus]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

The fact that you can't visit null gull while in a tf should be the end to this debate.  People may not know or forgot to visit the gull and shouldn't be punished for that. 

 

 Here's an example of why.  Titan weapon.  The T9 attack requires feet on the ground.  You can't use a key attack when flying!  I was on a 8 man team recently when I encountered this. After a couple missions, when I realized whoever was doing it wasn't going to stop, I said in chat, "Sorry, BRB.  I'm going to Pocket D to turn off group fly."  If I couldn't have done that because of a tf I would have asked to send the group fly.  The scrapper ATO crit proc was slotted in the power I couldn't use. A key, nearly closed defining ability deemed unusable by group fly.

 

Seems like a no brainer. 

 

 

This is actually a good response. 

 

So yeah, I think we can agree it would be better if the devs made it to where you can turn it on/off during a tf. I'm not a programmer so I'm not sure what the implications of that could be and maybe that's why they haven't done it?

 

At any rate...if it were the case GF was causing us as a team to actually lose the TF, then yeah obviously I would agree it should be turned off. If we lose the TF it's all for naught Afterall. But if you're going to win anyway..., would it not be the mature thing to say.... you know what.... I forgot...I'll suffer through this tf and fix it right after, so it doesn't happen again? 

 

But we actually got people here that think that since they forgot to take measures to do something to their own toon, it then falls on someone else to stop playing their built toon and if they refuse then the person refusing is expecting people to accommodate them? Not sure in what universe that makes sense. 

[Neiska]

Just now, Gravitus said:

But we actually got people here that think that since they forgot to take measures to do something to their own toon, it then falls on someone else to stop playing their built toon and if they refuse then the person refusing is expecting people to accommodate them? Not sure in what universe that makes sense. 

 

The irony of using powers that affect others, and then insist its OTHER people who are demanding accommodation, when its a power of connivence at best, entirely optional, vs several powers and builds like seismic that can't actually function when not on the ground. 

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I hate Broccoli.

[High_Beam]

Cant believe after four pages that nobody has jumped on this:

 

What Would Snarky Do?

 

 

[Gravitus]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

 

The irony of using powers that affect others, and then insist its OTHER people who are demanding accommodation, when its a power of connivence at best, entirely optional, vs several powers and builds like seismic that can't actually function when not on the ground. 

not ironic at all when you can stop it from happening. And yeah no.....keeping bots out of melee range of an AV is pretty important

[Neiska]

4 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

not ironic at all when you can stop it from happening. And yeah no.....keeping bots out of melee range of an AV is pretty important

 

Not when you are on a team it isn't. If you are, you know, playing as part of a team and not someone self obsessed insisting everyone revolves around you, that rarely happens. I used to 3 box robo mms, even wrote a guide. Think I am pretty well aware of what you can and cannot do with them, thank you.

 

Pretty sure you are just being a jerk in the situation. It isn't on others to opt out of a power that you don't have to use, and the team leader was well within his right to boot you for not turning it off when asked. You want to use it on teams? Make your own. But don't be shocked when people leave.

[Gravitus]

7 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I did and, as I said, it does not apply to matters of opinion or personal preference.

 

For example; I hate Broccoli. I don't care if I'm the only person out of the 8 billion people on planet Earth who doesn't like Broccoli, I'll never like Broccoli and nothing anyone says will change that. That's a matter of personal preference.

 

However, and I'm honestly the perfect person on this forum to use this example, if I say something and everyone in the room gets mad and my response is "What? I wasn't being a jerk, I just answered her question truthfully." If everyone else in the room says that I was being a jerk then I accept that I was being a jerk, even if it was unintended. Doesn't mean that I'll actually act differently but, if I refuse to act differently, then I have to accept the consequences of my actions.

.

The actual definition:

 

" The ad populum fallacy, also known as argumentum ad populum, is a type of informal fallacy that occurs when someone tries to persuade others by appealing to whjat most people think, like, or believe. This is done instead of providing evidence to justify their position."

 

So, in your example of someone calling you a jerk, they would have to provide examples (evidence) on what drew them to that conclusion. Saying, well everyone else thinks so is not an argument in of itself and is a fallacy. 

 

An example given by the internets...

 

"Everybody in our family goes to Georgetown for undergrad, so it only makes sense that you do too"

[Maelwys]

Just now, Neiska said:

The irony of using powers that affect others, and then insist its OTHER people who are demanding accommodation, when its a power of connivence at best, entirely optional, vs several powers and builds like seismic that can't actually function when not on the ground. 

"Hey man, mind turning off Group Fly? It's severely messing up my rotation."
"Oh, sorry. Yeah no problem. That'll make my Bots take a few extra hits but we should be grand. Although you realise you can visit Null to global disable GF and stuff yeah?"
"Aye but I forgot on this toon and we're on a TF. Thanks. You know I was half expecting this to turn into some kind of major argument or something."
"Naw... it's just a game, right?"
 

[Neiska]

1 minute ago, Maelwys said:

"Hey man, mind turning off Group Fly? It's severely messing up my rotation."
"Oh, sorry. Yeah no problem. That'll make my Bots take a few extra hits but we should be grand. Although you realise you can visit Null to global disable GF and stuff yeah?"
"Aye but I forgot on this toon and we're on a TF. Thanks. You know I was half expecting this to turn into some kind of major argument or something."
"Naw... it's just a game, right?"
 

 

A fine scenario, but somehow I doubt that is how it went down. At all. He refused to turn it off and got kicked after all.

[Maelwys]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

 

A fine scenario, but somehow I doubt that is how it went down. At all. He refused to turn it off and got kicked after all.

 

[JasperStone]

If the Team leader asks you to turn it off, then do so.

...

My respond first would have been

Player: "Odd,  I have seen no complaints in chat"

Team Leader: "I was sent tells complaining of GF"

Player has left TF

 

Yup ... I would have left.

 

Any complaints should go in the Team Chat

[Gravitus]

2 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

Not when you are on a team it isn't. If you are, you know, playing as part of a team and not someone self obsessed insisting everyone revolves around you, that rarely happens. I used to 3 box robo mms, even wrote a guide. Think I am pretty well aware of what you can and cannot do with them, thank you.

 

Pretty sure you are just being a jerk in the situation. It isn't on others to opt out of a power that you don't have to use, and the team leader was well within his right to boot you for not turning it off when asked. You want to use it on teams? Make your own. But don't be shocked when people leave.

I'm skeptical how good this guide is. This game is as hard or as easy as one wants it to be......but if you like not being carried by your teammates then you should acknowledge keeping your bots out of melee range is a sound strategy. 

[JasperStone]

18 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

What Would Snarky Do?

The Sun is still up ... he will be here shortly

OR

He is up ... but the shadows are not dark enough

Edited Monday at 09:43 PM by JasperStone

[Neiska]

1 minute ago, Gravitus said:

I'm skeptical how good this guide is. This game is as hard or as easy as one wants it to be......but if you like not being carried by your teammates then you should acknowledge keeping your bots out of melee range is a sound strategy. 

 

If you are working with your team, instead of against them, they will do the most of that for you. If your bots are in melee of the AV, then your tank/brute isn't doing their job, or possibly your group fly is making that more difficult than it needs to be?

 

Either way, considering your attempt at ad hominem, coupled with your "me me me me", you proved yourself not worth my time responding to you further.

[Maelwys]

Just now, Gravitus said:

I'm skeptical how good this guide is. This game is as hard or as easy as one wants it to be......but if you like not being carried by your teammates then you should acknowledge keeping your bots out of melee range is a sound strategy. 

Pretty good, as it happens.

@Neiskas guide is about triple box Mastermind Farming and it's available here.

It's a smidge less relevant these days than it used to be after the recent changes that affected AE critter behavior whenever you're at the aggro cap; but it is still quite a useful reference piece. It describes well what happens whenever you bring a Mastermind(s) with multiple henchmen, each with their own aggro cap, into a tightly packed farming map. In short, GLORIOUS BEDLAM. Multiple stacking AoE buffs and Group Fly in that scenario is a godsend.

My own Bot/Kin/Flame still makes good use of the same style of farming, albeit typically dual-boxed with whatever alt I fancy leveling up at the time.
 

[Gravitus]

5 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

The Sun is still up ... he will be here shortly

Should I just hide thread now? 

[JasperStone]

Just now, Gravitus said:

Should I just hide thread now? 

He will find you anyway.

He will ...

*suddenly feels eyes on his back*

Whelp ...look at the time, gotta go

 

 

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

However as a PUG horror story this needs 50% more Snarky.

 

Be careful.  Never go full Snarky (unless you're @Snarky).

 

If Snark lasts more than 4 hours, seek medical assistance.

[Luminara]

18 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

 

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

When someone has access to a tool to make something not a problem and they neglect to use it . . .the ball is in that person's court for what comes after.

 

Sorry, I said I was done . . . but I was dragged back in by this statement.  Allow me to judo your argument:

 

When someone (you) has access to a tool to make something not a problem (turning off group fly) and they neglect to use it (after being asked to). . . the ball is in that person's (your) court for what comes after (you get booted).

[Maelwys]

4 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

  

9 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

  

22 minutes ago, High_Beam said:

What Would Snarky Do?

The Sun is still up ... he will be here shortly

Should I just hide thread now? 

There is NO HIDING from @Snarky



(and a particular fondness of a bit of Potential Undead Giddiness...)

[Gravitus]

8 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Sorry, I said I was done . . . but I was dragged back in by this statement.  Allow me to judo your argument:

 

When someone (you) has access to a tool to make something not a problem (turning off group fly) and they neglect to use it (after being asked to). . . the ball is in that person's (your) court for what comes after (you get booted).

Consider what's at stake.

 

The person using GF has to stop playing their toon as it was intended to be played 

 

OR

 

Someone spends 2 minutes to activate a feature that has zero negative effect on them.

 

Pretty simple math bob. 

[Jacke]

1 minute ago, Gravitus said:

The person using GF has to stop playing their toon as it was intended to be played

 

Until at such time as the devs install better and more flexible options to control the impact of Group Fly, I think it behooves you to work on your ground game with your Bots.  You've got to do it when the ceiling is low, so you can do it all the time.  Like on a TF.

 

This is a social interaction.  Everyone is expected to adjust towards making things a good experience for all.  'Cause we want everyone to enjoy themselves.

[Bionic_Flea]

Quote

Pretty simple math bob. 

 

Except it's not.  As I and others have pointed out, while Null exists and can be used to turn off group fly, not everyone knows and not everyone remembers.  Your position for those people is "too bad, they should have known."  And you are also discounting that group flying negatively effects other players.  Your "perfectly built" flying MM is preventing me from using my much faster movement speeds to position myself and use certain attacks.

 

Can you not acknowledge that group fly negatively effects other players?

 

Edited Monday at 10:19 PM by Bionic_Flea

[Xandyr]

I was on a TF a while back with most of the players on the team being Ines I regularly team with. We filled the team with 2 PUGs. One of which had group fly (can't remember what AT/powersets this said person had). Everyone else on the team constantly asked this person to turn off group fly as it was messing with them/their playstyle/their powers/their pets). After 6 people asking this person to turn off group fly, the leader of the team finally said "if you do not turn off group fly within the next minute, I will kick you". The said person NEVER even acknowledged anyone at all. Never responded, never said anything at all. Finally, leader kicked the person.

  Now...could everyone go to Null and turn off those powers? Yes. Do they? No. Either they forget, don't know, don't take the time, or are afraid if they do ALL players' powers will stop affecting them ( buffs,etc).

  If it was me, I would either tell the team that you prefer to run with group fly, start your own team, or remind everyone how to turn off powers that affect them.

 Personally, I used to love fly, but due to an accident (lost part of my forefinger) it makes it very hard to maneuver with fly...so now I typically take SJ for my travel.