AV/Giant killers

[BurtHutt]

So, I am wondering which AT and power combo would make for the best AV/GM killer/arrester. Altitis has hit me hard and I am now wanting to make some different toons etc. Please include a build 🙂 Happy hunting and discussing!

 

[Octogoat]

Ill/dark or Ill/traps beam/traps or traps/beam

[tidge]

I'll save the trouble and just attach a bunch of merits, badges, and other rewards to this post. If they aren't here, that means someone else was more enterprising/faster at claiming them.

[Snarky]

58 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

So, I am wondering which AT and power combo would make for the best AV/GM killer/arrester. Altitis has hit me hard and I am now wanting to make some different toons etc. Please include a build 🙂 Happy hunting and discussing!

 

Part of it will depend on your playstyle. (Yes, you actually matter). 
 

People solo this stuff with remarkably strange choices.  Maybe not fast… but…

 

So yes there is probably a “best” but if there is something you enjoy a LOT more than can also do all this, slightly slower…. You see where this is going right?

[Octogoat]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I'll save the trouble and just attach a bunch of merits, badges, and other rewards to this post. If they aren't here, that means someone else was more enterprising/faster at claiming them.

 

Boy am I glad I snagged them. Thanks tidge!

[mistagoat]

Ill/Rad or Ill/Dark are my go to solo GM killers. Perma PA is a must!

[BurtHutt]

2 hours ago, mistagoat said:

Ill/Rad or Ill/Dark are my go to solo GM killers. Perma PA is a must!

Any chance I could get your builds? I am good at making sturdy toons but then struggle in regards to something like this. 

 

I'm hoping for a AV/GM killer without incarnates. Damage, recharge and slotting help needed. I understand those to combos are good but is one better than the other?

Edited December 2 by BurtHutt

[DarknessEternal]

What's best to you?  Because if it's speed, it's not a Controller.

[mistagoat]

1 hour ago, BurtHutt said:

Any chance I could get your builds? I am good at making sturdy toons but then struggle in regards to something like this. 

 

I'm hoping for a AV/GM killer without incarnates. Damage, recharge and slotting help needed. I understand those to combos are good but is one better than the other?

 

Sure, the /Dark has a small gap in the PA recharge but it has enough other pets to cover the aggro for a second or 2.

edit: The /Rad covers PA without Incarnates though so that may be helpful for your goals.

If you go with an Illusion just get damage into your pets and then load up on Recharge.

 

Controller ill rad troller Calpernia rebuild 1.2.mbdController ill Dark troller Countess Gone v3.mbd

 

1 hour ago, DarknessEternal said:

What's best to you?  Because if it's speed, it's not a Controller.

Yeah DE makes a fair point here, those builds will solo a GM but it ain't fast and you gotta be on your game the whole time. I haven't really found anything else that can combat the crazy regen and take the aggo though. 

What would you suggest that would be faster, DE?

Edited December 2 by mistagoat

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, mistagoat said:

Ill/Rad or Ill/Dark are my go to solo GM killers. Perma PA is a must!

any chance you share the archetype lolololol

[mistagoat]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

any chance you share the archetype lolololol

Oh lol, yeah I guess there are a few options there. Troller was my intention.

[tidge]

53 minutes ago, mistagoat said:

Yeah DE makes a fair point here, those builds will solo a GM but it ain't fast and you gotta be on your game the whole time. I haven't really found anything else that can combat the crazy regen and take the aggo though. 

What would you suggest that would be faster, DE?

 

Masterminds are probably faster than Controllers. At lower levels (such as the Yin TF) my MMs can solo that with little issue, my Controllers can solo it, but take significantly longer.

 

An MM is probably faster than any Controller, all things being equal. The one edge a Control might have over a Mastermind is that an average controller build might have an immobilize to deal with runners... Masterminds can get immobilizes too, but they are IMO pretty much only useful for runners, so don't fit neatly into what a MM wants for 98%+ of the games content, and MMs usually have a choice of powers that are a better fit for that other content.

[Glacier Peak]

Teammates

[BurtHutt]

2 hours ago, mistagoat said:

 

Sure, the /Dark has a small gap in the PA recharge but it has enough other pets to cover the aggro for a second or 2.

edit: The /Rad covers PA without Incarnates though so that may be helpful for your goals.

If you go with an Illusion just get damage into your pets and then load up on Recharge.

 

Controller ill rad troller Calpernia rebuild 1.2.mbd 46.15 kB · 3 downloads Controller ill Dark troller Countess Gone v3.mbd 47.95 kB · 3 downloads

 

Yeah DE makes a fair point here, those builds will solo a GM but it ain't fast and you gotta be on your game the whole time. I haven't really found anything else that can combat the crazy regen and take the aggo though. 

What would you suggest that would be faster, DE?

Ok so I kinda like the looks of the Ill/Dark. I took a look and made some adjustments to it. How do you all think this guy would work out for regular and big game hunting?

 

 

Controller ill Dark troller ice.mbd

[Glacier Peak]

55 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

Ok so I kinda like the looks of the Ill/Dark. I took a look and made some adjustments to it. How do you all think this guy would work out for regular and big game hunting?

 

 

Controller ill Dark troller ice.mbd 45.77 kB · 1 download

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/43-archetypes/

[BurtHutt]

10 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/43-archetypes/

Right. Nice of you to come in and direct traffic. Awesome. Anyway, I started this discussion to discuss ANY AT and power combo. Maybe some others will chime in and suggest other ATs etc. I just never really went out to design this type of toon but may try it out.

[mistagoat]

1 hour ago, BurtHutt said:

Ok so I kinda like the looks of the Ill/Dark. I took a look and made some adjustments to it. How do you all think this guy would work out for regular and big game hunting?

 

 

Controller ill Dark troller ice.mbd 45.77 kB · 1 download

I think you'll be in good shape! Your recharge looks great! The only bit I'm on the fence with is the losing the procced out Blind. It's probably not "make or break" but it adds a ton of damage. I think I'd be inclined to drop the Decimation recharge bonus in favor of the base buff recharge bonus so you could keep the proc damage. Regardless, I think you'll bag your trophy!

 

[MoonSheep]

fire/rad controller was also a gooden back in the day. for an AV or GM killer you generally want something with -regen and -res 

 

i haven’t tried to kill a GM on my poison/fire defender but may be possible, will give it a go later

 

edit: there wasn't enough -regen on the poison defender, lovely debuffs though

 

 

Edited December 3 by MoonSheep

[Glacier Peak]

12 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

Right. Nice of you to come in and direct traffic. Awesome. Anyway, I started this discussion to discuss ANY AT and power combo. Maybe some others will chime in and suggest other ATs etc. I just never really went out to design this type of toon but may try it out.

It's an Archetype sub forum. A place where anyone can discuss any Archetype and powerset combo. You know, like the exact place a person would go if they had a question about that sort of stuff. You're welcome. 

Edited December 3 by Glacier Peak

[Gerswin]

A completely different approach is to tank the AV and outdamage the regen.  This is easily done with a specialized single target stalker or scrapper using temps (envenomed dagger, etc) and/or insps for the+3 or +4 AVs. My favorite combo for this is a em/bio scrapper, but multiple combos are viable.   EM/bio can completely overpower even con AVs in the 'unkillable' portion of a barrier cycle. without temps or insps.

 

I have done the slow kill process of using PA and confuse to whittle down AV hp, but I have very minimal patience so I find myself using a more violent blitz approach more often than not. 

 

My benchmark for AVs is the 'a Hero's Epic' story arc in Ouro.  I usually multibox with unbuilt door sitter toons that need the accolade and solo all of the AVs with the scrap or stalker.  If I am fast, I can usually finish the arc in about 45 minutes, or less if I abuse super insps and sub incan for barrier to make travel faster.

 

Obviously there are different metrics of AV soloing that appeal to different players.  I tend to prefer the brainless 'Smash!!' approach.

 

 

[BurtHutt]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

It's an Archetype sub forum. A place where anyone can discuss any Archetype and powerset combo. You know, like the exact place a person would go if they had a question about that sort of stuff. You're welcome. 

Le sigh...it's also an opportunity to discuss all things relevant. Not just AT and powers. Tricks, tips, temps etc. If a mod wants to move this then no problem. All good. I try not to worry about this stuff. Anyway, enjoy. You're welcome 🙂 

Edited December 3 by BurtHutt

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

It's an Archetype sub forum. A place where anyone can discuss any Archetype and powerset combo. You know, like the exact place a person would go if they had a question about that sort of stuff. You're welcome. 

Why are you being unnecessarily rude to a player trying to ask questions and learn things? It's not like they're a troll poster. Your initial post of the link meant nothing, and your follow up is really distasteful.

 

It's not immediately obvious when looking at the forums that just the name Archetypes has its own area to post in because you see the breakdown of all the individual ATs.

 

You could have made a much kinder and more relevant post the first time by linking the Archetypes forum and saying something to the effect of In the future/just so you know, generic questions about ATs belong to this forum and not the general discussion forum.

 

And if it's such a *huge* deal to have Burt's post here in Gen Discussion, then report it and have the GM's move it to the AT forum. But there was zero need for the condescending attitude that comes across in this comment.

[tidge]

25 minutes ago, Gerswin said:

A completely different approach is to tank the AV and outdamage the regen.  This is easily done with a specialized single target stalker or scrapper using temps (envenomed dagger, etc) and/or insps for the+3 or +4 AVs. My favorite combo for this is a em/bio scrapper, but multiple combos are viable.   EM/bio can completely overpower even con AVs in the 'unkillable' portion of a barrier cycle. without temps or insps.

 

There are very few players I see solo (or even team) fighting Giant Monsters without relying on Lore pets. I definitely see solo Masterminds defeating Giant Monsters without Lores... but not without using other Incarnate powers.

 

Prior to the "rebalancing", almost any AT could solo many of the Giant Monsters (using all the Incarnates), because as @Gerswin notes, the key to defeating everything in the game is to do more damage than the regeneration can overcome. [The inverse, for players, is why the game will never have an old-school pre-nerf Regeneration set again.] The Giant Monsters with actual self-healing (and not just the inherent regeneration) provide a different sort of challenge.

 

A common change the Giant Monster "rebalancing" did was to add significant resistances (and in some cases, more HP) to the Giant Monsters. This combination makes overcoming the GM's regeneration a lot more difficult (because the GMs are sacks of HP) for non-specialized soloists.

 

To the point above: Masterminds inherently have both the offense and the ability to "tank" Giant Monsters (and AVs) via Bodyguard mode. A well-built Mastermind will also bring the other things to the table like inherently high defenses (to keep enemy ToHit chances below 10%), a mechanism for healing, debuffs on the enemy, and keeping aggro (to improve the use of Bodyguard mode). Solo masterminds can do this, but it IMO takes some smart choices of powers, slotting, and play style.

 

I see a LOT of multi-box players using two (or more) MMs to fight giant monsters, and occasionally multi-boxers with one MM and one other random AT. Obviously the multi-boxers are reaping multiple rewards, but I can see based on the strategy (typically "zerg the GM") and the power choices that neither of those characters would likely be able to solo whatever GM they happen to be facing. I get a similar feeling when I watch a team of four or more fight Adamastor, and each player has popped their Lore pets. Using multiple Lores is completely unnecessary, as a single Lore pet with a dedicated GM fighter should be able to defeat Adamastor in 2-3 minutes. Two sets of Lores with any two rando ATs should be enough, unless those ATs are particularly unbalanced.

[Sanguinesun]

On 12/2/2024 at 11:58 PM, BurtHutt said:

So, I am wondering which AT and power combo would make for the best AV/GM killer/arrester. Altitis has hit me hard and I am now wanting to make some different toons etc. Please include a build 🙂 Happy hunting and discussing!

 

 

 

It used to be much much much easier to solo kill GM's years ago but they've changed GM's since then and its much harder to do so now.   Team wise its a non issue though of course.  Ill/Rad controllers were the go to then and very helpful to doing so now as well due to hits damage and debuffs.

 

AV's can be a bit different. There are various AVs that can be pushovers.  However it is very important to remember that not all AV's are the same and some AT builds while some AT builds can roflstomp some others will roflstomp you.  With the revamps that the HC team continues to also seem adamant about implementing, keep in mind that putting the effort into such things may end up being not as fruitful in the long run.

 

What is your goal specifically anyway with doing this to focus on gm/avs?  

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

It's not immediately obvious when looking at the forums that just the name Archetypes has its own area to post in because you see the breakdown of all the individual ATs.

That's why I posted the link to the Archetype sub forum.