Null da Gull Knockback

[FupDup]

Most single-target KB is controllable to a degree, but AOE is where it can get hairy. I kinda wish that most AOEs were just KD by default and if the player wanted to change that then the onus would be on them to slot KB enhancements. Yes, this could/would lead to people who make that choice getting ostracized, but that already happens in reverse for people who don't slot KB->KD. At least this way, people who aren't aware of this dynamic are less likely to be affected by it (unless they happen to slot a KB enhancement unknowingly). 

 

Beyond that, for Energy Blast in particular, I wish it were revamped to allow more control over when the KB happens. One possibility would be to reduce the KBs to KD by default (at least on AOEs) and then make the Aim power grant increased KB magnitude for a few moments (kind of like the other unique Aim/Build Up powers, i.e. Charge Up gives End Mod). Or there's any other number of ways to execute it, really. It might also be interesting to revamp the Explosive Blast power into a mini vortex (rename to Implosive Blast?) that sucks enemies in like Axe Cyclone, to help offset the disruption created by other powers in the set. 

[Snarky]

11 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I missed Lum's linked post. If a dev has already said a global change ain't happen then it ain't.

 

More damage on KB'd foes would be welcome, but I'd have to see just how much more damage it is.

 

And again for me if they do nothing, that's fine. I have no problem with KB.

It is the first response to this thread.  But, as i so eloquently pointed out, the reasons are basically 1) i like KB 2) people shouldnt want to kill 3) no one is happy anyways.  It is a Dev post worthy of a 14 year old on a pepsi buzz. 🐝 

[Stormwalker]

On 1/7/2025 at 8:10 PM, Snarky said:

Everyone has an opinion.  And i appreciate the feedback.  I do.  
 

i am honestly shocked there is so much pro knockback votes.  3 is obvs a joke.  But peeps against option 2???   Interesting indeed

I am against option 2 because I don't want to join teams on my energy blaster only to get kicked for not being willing to turn on that toggle.

 

Back on live, people used to try to get me kicked off TF's just for being energy/energy, before we had done a single fight.  Funnily enough, once the battles started and they realized I knew what I was doing, the complaints quickly stopped.  Thankfully, the ones doing the complaining were not the leaders.

 

So, I'm pretty sure if such a toggle existed there would be players who would demand it be used. 

 

Granted, the HC community as  a whole seems more mature than the community on Live was (probably because we are all older than we were then), so I expect there would be fewer of those players, but the problem remains - if you normalize KB -> KD, some players will use this as a justification for not using KB -> KD being "wrong".

 

For reference, on my energy blaster, I slot KB -> KD in Nova, and ONLY Nova.  And Power Thrust is slotted for KB because it is my self-defense button.

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, FupDup said:

Explosive Blast power into a mini vortex (rename to Implosive Blast?) that sucks enemies in like Axe Cyclone

 

That would be cool. I just figured, to kill two birds with one stone, it should be Power Push that gets the Axe Cyclone treatment, in order to make it a desirable pick. Call it Power Pull, or call it Energy Vortex.

 

It could just be a location based field, or I thought maybe make it react to your other powers. While Energy Vortex (a tag on the target of your Power Push that lasts, let's say, 20 seconds) is active, all your Energy Blast attacks cause nearby enemies to be pulled toward the target of the Vortex INSTEAD of their regular KB effects.

[Stormwalker]

23 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

That would be cool. I just figured, to kill two birds with one stone, it should be Power Push that gets the Axe Cyclone treatment, in order to make it a desirable pick. Call it Power Pull, or call it Energy Vortex.

 

It could just be a location based field, or I thought maybe make it react to your other powers. While Energy Vortex (a tag on the target of your Power Push that lasts, let's say, 20 seconds) is active, all your Energy Blast attacks cause nearby enemies to be pulled toward the target of the Vortex INSTEAD of their regular KB effects.

 

I like Explosive Blast the way it is.

 

I don't care what they do with Power Push, since I don't take that power.

 

Also, y'know, some of us play concept characters and changes like people are suggesring don't necessarily play well with existing character concepts.

 

Energy Blast as a ser is conceptually themed around concussive blasts.  If you start making the powers do things that aren't consistent with that theme, you're messing with a lot of players' concepts and character themes and some of them are likely to get upser.

 

There is no need to change Energy Blast.  It's fine as it is.  The KB is one of the defining characteristics of the set, and that is as it should be.

[Super Atom]

I love to grief every team im ever on so i can roleplay my latest OC

 

Don't change knockback. You're just trying to deny us the right to absolutely decimate clear times and AOE's

[tidge]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

It is the first response to this thread.  But, as i so eloquently pointed out, the reasons are basically 1) i like KB 2) people shouldnt want to kill 3) no one is happy anyways.  It is a Dev post worthy of a 14 year old on a pepsi buzz. 🐝 

 

This isn't exactly a fair summary of the (somewhat deep inside the linked thread's) 'dev post'.

 

In that post, I did agree with the general comment that some power sets ought to have a feel to them, beyond "lol enemy green go down". I don't think the (admittedly, in that post) casual comment relating to 'maximize defeats with minimum effort' (my wording) is 100% on point for the discussion, except of course that such thinking is almost certainly the source of a majority of players complaints... just as it is for "AoE controls leave enemies separated" and "Teleport foe stole my target", etc.

[Snarky]

32 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

This isn't exactly a fair summary of the (somewhat deep inside the linked thread's) 'dev post'.

 

In that post, I did agree with the general comment that some power sets ought to have a feel to them, beyond "lol enemy green go down". I don't think the (admittedly, in that post) casual comment relating to 'maximize defeats with minimum effort' (my wording) is 100% on point for the discussion, except of course that such thinking is almost certainly the source of a majority of players complaints... just as it is for "AoE controls leave enemies separated" and "Teleport foe stole my target", etc.

being able to defeat foes is why most people game.  okay, most introverts.  there are costume contests, social groups, yada yada.  but.... it is a murder hobos world.  

 

yes, knockback is really cool.  AND almost always makes everyone's life (including the user) much more difficult.  have falling damage (how far knocked back = KBxrange extra damage) then we can talk.  otherwise it is a true crap mitigation tactic that looks cool.  

 

yes, i know i am not converting that Dev to my way of thinking.  but i do not try to convince idiots.  waste of my damn time.

 

knockback is bad, m'kay?  it slows the game down AND reduces the fun of anyone who is not doing the knockback.  everyone knows it.  will i convince someone with the "truth and justice" on their side (and the power gripped tightly in a sweaty fist)  no.  will not stop me from pointing out the stupidity of it all from time to time.

[ZacKing]

18 hours ago, Luminara said:

I see that some (most?) of the people arguing haven't read the developer post that I linked, in which he/she not only states that the team doesn't like the idea of uniform KB->KD, but goes on to outline their preferred method of dealing with the situation.

 

Or notice that three of the four things he/she outlined have been implemented.

 

And that the fourth thing is exactly what some of you have mentioned wanting, bonus damage on knocked foes.

 

I read the post back when it was first made.  I disagreed with it entirely back then and I still entirely disagree with it now.  It's essentially saying "I like KB, so tough."  That's fine and there's nothing wrong with that.  It's their server and they can do whatever they want, and we just have to live with it.  We don't have any say in what goes on here and our opinions don't hold much weight, if any at all.  Again, nothing wrong with that.  HC can do whatever they like here.

 

I just disagree fundamentally with how KB is implemented in that it doesn't take into consideration how it affects team play.  Also, being worried about people with KB getting "ostracized" into being forced to turn on a toggle doesn't make much sense, given that people are already "ostracized" for any number of reasons for things like Group Fly, Speed Boost, Sonic Resonance, brightly colored powers, Fold Space etc.  Singling out KB as a concern for ostracizing is a bit silly and doesn't make any sense.  I also think the idea of adding powers that help corral knocked back foes (see Fold Space) is totally bizarre.  They're so concerned with a minor increase in DPS by changing KB to KD,  but then add stuff like Fold Space that exponentially increases AoE DPS?  It's also a very convoluted way to fix the problem in my opinion, not to mention causing all kinds of headaches and bad feelings on teams when mobs are teleported away from them.

 

Seems to me it would have been simpler to just add a way for people to select KB or KD or to toggle between them, but that's just me.  The folks running the show here are of course welcome to make whatever changes they feel are appropriate. 

[Grouchybeast]

12 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

Also, y'know, some of us play concept characters and changes like people are suggesring don't necessarily play well with existing character concepts.

 

Energy Blast as a ser is conceptually themed around concussive blasts.  If you start making the powers do things that aren't consistent with that theme, you're messing with a lot of players' concepts and character themes and some of them are likely to get upser.

 

There is no need to change Energy Blast.  It's fine as it is.  The KB is one of the defining characteristics of the set, and that is as it should be.

 

This is where I am on Energy Blast, basically.  There are so many other blaster primaries.  We have power effect recolouring that expands those sets into many more themes and concepts.  If you don't like KB and don't want to take the already existing option of slotting KB->KD enhancements, the answer is to take a set that doesn't do KB!