A little more post-20 Praetorian content please (and maybe some pre-20 Praetorian content)

[sponazgul]

2 hours ago, Darmian said:

I've got (so far) three trilogies of Praetorian material in the form of AEs set between levels 19 and 25 (Crusader, Warden and Power) with some shading into the events of the Praetorian War.  Details in my signature.  They're all designed to be as close to canon as possible.

 

I'd write more set from 25 up if we had ANY maps for First Ward and Night Ward. We don't.

 

I've notes on a final pre War trilogy for Loyalist Responsibility and that will arrive...whenever! 

 

I do plan on playing through your Praetorian AE arcs. I enjoyed the Bridge mission arc (I'm sorry, I forget the name, it's before the Cassini Division...)

[sponazgul]

2 hours ago, Darmian said:

The only danger in that is the XP would push you past many of the contacts so perhaps the levels of the zones should be raised if this is implemented.

 

I think this would be done by people not caring to do the goldside stories again though, just like people running DFB aren't looking to do the City Hall contact arcs. 

[Darmian]

7 minutes ago, sponazgul said:

I do plan on playing through your Praetorian AE arcs. I enjoyed the Bridge mission arc (I'm sorry, I forget the name, it's before the Cassini Division...)

Bridge of Forever.   No worries on names!  Thanks for playing!

[TheMoneyMaker]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

What if they have converted to Primals?

They aren't converts, they're refugees. They're still inherently Praetorian. Arrest them.....hard.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Since a few ideas for TFs have been thrown out there, I'll submit mine for consideration. 

 

First Ward TF so it's co-op for all.

 

The Palatine Task Force, unlocked after you help Anna become the Palatine. 

 

Would start off fight off a slaver raid on Eltentown, featuring that incredibly underused group the Dregs. Unlocks a clue about Anna's past (a story which is left unresolved as you move on through First Ward).

 

Go through a series of missions in zone uncovering clues for a big reveal(?).

 

Possible cameos include Katie Douglas and Noble Savage.

 

Would be fun to have some (non-posessed) DUST named characters as AVs along with obligatory Hamidon AVs in the final mission. 

 

End result is knowing more about the Palatine and setting conditions for the escape of the Eltentowners during the dying of Praetoria. 

 

Probably set for 20-29 since a lot of the First Ward mobs groups are locked to that range... but it would be nice to have it a little higher to help with the 30-45 slump.

[Lunar Ronin]

If wishes were horses, I would have dearly liked to have seen the level 40+ Neo Tokyo cyberpunk zone Paragon Studios wanted to end Praetoria with.  Alas.

[BrandX]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Okay, my question is: How? Playing solo and not using double xp, I have to be careful that I don't outlevel First Ward before finishing the content. I'm not saying you don't have that happen, but I truly want to know how.

 

I was at +1 difficulty and double XP and I recall I wasn't out leveling the content, but it's been awhile.  I however wasn't afraid to turn off the XP.

[jkwak]

55 minutes ago, Lunar Ronin said:

If wishes were horses, I would have dearly liked to have seen the level 40+ Neo Tokyo cyberpunk zone Paragon Studios wanted to end Praetoria with.  Alas.

YES ALL THE YES,
for all i care they can use some heavy moded version of a preexisting zone which already exists.
Grandvile migh work, replace the propaganda on the screens with advertisement, plaster the zone with even more advertisements and neo signs then a couple additional buildings copy pasted over from the other Praetorian zones and and i would be happy, its not what we would have gotten on live but its good enough for something people could put together in there freetime without pay.
doubt that will ever happen but people can hope and wish

[Rudra]

51 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I was at +1 difficulty and double XP and I recall I wasn't out leveling the content, but it's been awhile.  I however wasn't afraid to turn off the XP.

I don't get it. I don't run at higher than default difficulty until I get higher level and I never use xp boosts, but I routinely find myself turning off xp to make sure I don't outlevel First Ward.

[Skyhawke]

Dunno what to tell you, I did all of First Ward, went to Night Ward, did the intro stuff and then got told to come back at 30. I'd just hit 28 at that time. 🤷‍♂️

[Chris24601]

How about taking the Last Bastion map and turn it into a zone connected to First Ward via the unused Transit Station there (it’s only used for missions in Night Ward) and say it’s part of the Resistance’s underground railroad for moving dissidents to safety.

 

Storywise, by the time you’re done in First Ward you’re on the outs with the Crusaders (no one says no to Calvin Scott) and Loyalists (particularly once you break into the Magisterium to steal Diabolique’s amulet)… so basically you need to get out of dodge.

 

Enter a level 35-40 (or more) zone where the missions involve getting Last Bastion set up to the point it is by the time the incarnate arc happens… getting ahold of the anti-air defenses for example. Getting food and supplies for refugees, components for the eventual portal device used in the arc, etc.

 

Part Two of my Praetorian content plan would be to move Tina McIntyre and Maria Jenkins to the Rikti War Zone (by rights those missions should fall under Vanguard’s oversight anyway) and, by completing the Last Bastion 35-40 arcs you unlock access to the RWZ where you can participate in those arcs.

 

Part Three of the plan is to create a non-iTrial version of the war against Praetoria as a story arc experience so you can pause to read the content without the pressure of the iTrial going on around you (you can still do the iTrials, this would just be an alternate way of experiencing it.

 

My thinking here is the maps and mobs are already built; they just need to scaled to solo and team play.

 

Fold Belladonna and Last Bastion into that series of arcs as well so that, by the time you’re finally done, you’ve played through the entire Fall of Praetoria story.

 

After that if you’re not level 50, you’re doing something wrong.

[BrandX]

12 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

How about taking the Last Bastion map and turn it into a zone connected to First Ward via the unused Transit Station there (it’s only used for missions in Night Ward) and say it’s part of the Resistance’s underground railroad for moving dissidents to safety.

 

Storywise, by the time you’re done in First Ward you’re on the outs with the Crusaders (no one says no to Calvin Scott) and Loyalists (particularly once you break into the Magisterium to steal Diabolique’s amulet)… so basically you need to get out of dodge.

 

Enter a level 35-40 (or more) zone where the missions involve getting Last Bastion set up to the point it is by the time the incarnate arc happens… getting ahold of the anti-air defenses for example. Getting food and supplies for refugees, components for the eventual portal device used in the arc, etc.

 

Part Two of my Praetorian content plan would be to move Tina McIntyre and Maria Jenkins to the Rikti War Zone (by rights those missions should fall under Vanguard’s oversight anyway) and, by completing the Last Bastion 35-40 arcs you unlock access to the RWZ where you can participate in those arcs.

 

Part Three of the plan is to create a non-iTrial version of the war against Praetoria as a story arc experience so you can pause to read the content without the pressure of the iTrial going on around you (you can still do the iTrials, this would just be an alternate way of experiencing it.

 

My thinking here is the maps and mobs are already built; they just need to scaled to solo and team play.

 

Fold Belladonna and Last Bastion into that series of arcs as well so that, by the time you’re finally done, you’ve played through the entire Fall of Praetoria story.

 

After that if you’re not level 50, you’re doing something wrong.

 

Isn't Tina and Maria BEFORE there was a Vanguard?

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Isn't Tina and Maria BEFORE there was a Vanguard?

Very much so.

[Chris24601]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Isn't Tina and Maria BEFORE there was a Vanguard?

Vanguard RWZ content starts at level 35 and their troops show up in a few of the Neutropolis missions as well.

 

Vanguard allies are given to you in a few of Tina and Maria’s missions as well. You can still get the pre-Vanguard versions via flashback, but the normal leveling ones available by going to the contacts are are post-Statesman’s death (and post 1-20 Praetorian content).

 

In terms of the Praetorian content timeline, its original Tina and Maria arcs, 1-20 Praetoria content, First Ward, Night Ward, current Tina and Maria, Apex/Tinman, BAF, Lambda, Keyes, Underground, TPN, Dark Astoria (peripherally), Minds of Mayhem, Diabolique (peripherally), Belladonna, Magisterium, Last Bastion, New Praetorians/Mr. G arcs, and finally the Homecoming original John Houston rogue arc (basically following up on New Praetorian dangling bits).

 

Ideally you’d want a Praetorian play through to see most of those in approximately that order.

 

The main kicker is that even if you are a Praetorian, the story does expect you to come to Primal Earth at some point. If you go hero it’s ahead of the Tina arc (the next time Praetoria comes up Blueside)

 

I think holding off on the Warden to Hero Portal Chamber is vastly improved by doing First/Night Ward first, but that becomes nonsensical if you delay it past when the actual war starts (and Maria’s arc is definitely the opening salvo… so if you’re not Primal by then the story just falls apart and you’d need completely separate content for a “stays in Praetoria” run).

 

So, basically, I think Praetoria probably does work best if the content dries up at level 40 and you need to abandon Praetoria to continue the story.

 

In that vein I definitely think there needs to enough story content (not just grindable repeatables) to get a Praetorian to level 40.

 

Night Ward is only really solid until 35. After that all that’s left is repeatables.

 

That’s why I suggested a 35-40 “setting up the Last Bastion” arc as something you could squeeze just enough Goldside content out to get there.

 

Night Ward continues First Ward but is very tangential to the actual Praetoria conflict. One final zone focused on those driven out of “Paradise” and the actual threat of Praetorian Hamidon could really focus back on why you can’t keep putting it off and do need to finally go to Primal Earth (either to selfishly abandon the lost cause as a villain, or heroically align with Vanguard and do your part in bringing down Cole/evacuating innocents before Hamidon comes and destroys everything).

 

That would put a bow nicely onto the storyline that is Praetoria.

[Techwright]

I'm all for more gold content.  I'm currently gradually working a solo character through the lower levels.  I'm not exactly thrilled at having to turn off the XP for so much of it just to get the content done before outleveling it but it is what it is.

 

Remind me (in spoiler boxes if need be) where we end up at the end of the Praetorian story.  It's already been mentioned so I won't hide it in a box to say that players choose a red or blue side.  But is there a story where a percentage of NPC Praetorians do not pick a Primal side?   If so, it seems ripe to me for creating a whole new section in the game: the establishment of a new Praetorian world.  To wit:  Praetorians not content to integrate into Primal Earth approach Portal Corp for options.  Portal Corp responds that they've found an Earth  where either mankind has wiped itself out, leaving cities to rebuild and encroaching nature to push back, or an Earth never populated by a sentient species (or, at least, so we think).  Both option provide an opportunity for Praetorians to establish a new home, and sympathetic, or adventurous, or exploitive Primals and adopted Primals to aid them in establishing it.  This leads to new, high-end Praetorian content as a city is establish and whatever threats exist in the new world (or are also coming to the new world) are dealt with.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Techwright said:

I'm all for more gold content.  I'm currently gradually working a solo character through the lower levels.  I'm not exactly thrilled at having to turn off the XP for so much of it just to get the content done before outleveling it but it is what it is.

 

Remind me (in spoiler boxes if need be) where we end up at the end of the Praetorian story.  It's already been mentioned so I won't hide it in a box to say that players choose a red or blue side.  But is there a story where a percentage of NPC Praetorians do not pick a Primal side?   If so, it seems ripe to me for creating a whole new section in the game: the establishment of a new Praetorian world.  To wit:  Praetorians not content to integrate into Primal Earth approach Portal Corp for options.  Portal Corp responds that they've found an Earth  where either mankind has wiped itself out, leaving cities to rebuild and encroaching nature to push back, or an Earth never populated by a sentient species (or, at least, so we think).  Both option provide an opportunity for Praetorians to establish a new home, and sympathetic, or adventurous, or exploitive Primals and adopted Primals to aid them in establishing it.  This leads to new, high-end Praetorian content as a city is establish and whatever threats exist in the new world (or are also coming to the new world) are dealt with.

Depends on how you view taking Primal sides. In Provost Marchand's arc, you have Praetorians in Primal Earth after the fall of Praetoria that are still very much being Praetorians. They still have the same Power/Crusader and Responsibility/Warden sides, its just that they merged into 2 groups instead of 4 subgroups.

[TheMoneyMaker]

I would love to see more resistance survivors and activity in zones outside of the core three of Praetoria. After you finish there and are level 20, you can be given a choice to go to Primal Earth as a hero or villain or be "exiled" to explore the Hamipocalypse to find survivors and help them in their battles, maybe all the way up to level 50 and incarnate stuff. Maybe introduce some DE corrupted versions of standard mobs like DE with Freakshow components, or some 5th Column Warwolves with DE abilities. Imagine getting jumped by wolves dropping DE resonators.

[BrandX]

5 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Vanguard RWZ content starts at level 35 and their troops show up in a few of the Neutropolis missions as well.

 

Vanguard allies are given to you in a few of Tina and Maria’s missions as well. You can still get the pre-Vanguard versions via flashback, but the normal leveling ones available by going to the contacts are are post-Statesman’s death (and post 1-20 Praetorian content).

 

In terms of the Praetorian content timeline, its original Tina and Maria arcs, 1-20 Praetoria content, First Ward, Night Ward, current Tina and Maria, Apex/Tinman, BAF, Lambda, Keyes, Underground, TPN, Dark Astoria (peripherally), Minds of Mayhem, Diabolique (peripherally), Belladonna, Magisterium, Last Bastion, New Praetorians/Mr. G arcs, and finally the Homecoming original John Houston rogue arc (basically following up on New Praetorian dangling bits).

 

Ideally you’d want a Praetorian play through to see most of those in approximately that order.

 

The main kicker is that even if you are a Praetorian, the story does expect you to come to Primal Earth at some point. If you go hero it’s ahead of the Tina arc (the next time Praetoria comes up Blueside)

 

I think holding off on the Warden to Hero Portal Chamber is vastly improved by doing First/Night Ward first, but that becomes nonsensical if you delay it past when the actual war starts (and Maria’s arc is definitely the opening salvo… so if you’re not Primal by then the story just falls apart and you’d need completely separate content for a “stays in Praetoria” run).

 

So, basically, I think Praetoria probably does work best if the content dries up at level 40 and you need to abandon Praetoria to continue the story.

 

In that vein I definitely think there needs to enough story content (not just grindable repeatables) to get a Praetorian to level 40.

 

Night Ward is only really solid until 35. After that all that’s left is repeatables.

 

That’s why I suggested a 35-40 “setting up the Last Bastion” arc as something you could squeeze just enough Goldside content out to get there.

 

Night Ward continues First Ward but is very tangential to the actual Praetoria conflict. One final zone focused on those driven out of “Paradise” and the actual threat of Praetorian Hamidon could really focus back on why you can’t keep putting it off and do need to finally go to Primal Earth (either to selfishly abandon the lost cause as a villain, or heroically align with Vanguard and do your part in bringing down Cole/evacuating innocents before Hamidon comes and destroys everything).

 

That would put a bow nicely onto the storyline that is Praetoria.

 

Would it be original Tina and Maria arc?  I thought those were more retcons than anything, because it's the same story except a couple characters changed.

[sponazgul]

8 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

 

 

So, basically, I think Praetoria probably does work best if the content dries up at level 40 and you need to abandon Praetoria to continue the story.

 

 

Not for this Praetorian. I'll never leave Praetoria for Prime Earth, so I want things to do in Praetoria. I think trying to focus too much on what might sense for a narrative is not important, since:

 

1) a Prime Earth resident can do the Marchand arc at 35, and witness Hamidon in the distance wrecking Praetoria, and take the defeated Marauder into custody - he has a journey taking him to work with the new Praetorians.

 

2) 15 levels later, that same person can be fighting a Marauder in the Lambda sector, a Marauder who is an unbroken full-on supporter of a powerful and ruling Emperor Cole, in an undestroyed Praetoria.

 

This is a game, the narrative shouldn't be enforced, and it already isn't that much enforced. You can team up on a Magisterium iTrial and defeat Tyrant, and then visit Praetoria and hang out in the pristine Nova Praetoria and team up with a newly-made Loyalist who is existing in the flush of Praetoria's might.

 

I just want to have fun. I don't care if after the defeat of Praetoria by Hamidon, and Hamidon's defeat by Incarnate Prime Earthers in Last Bastion, if Reichsmann or whomever, NEMESIS maybe, shows up and there's a Praetorian task force vs that other-dimensional enemy. Go wild, Devs.

 

So, I am not looking for anything to force me to leave Praetoria for Prime Earth (unless I can still remain a Praetorian and be treated by the game like I'm a Rogue if I'm a Loyalist, or like I'm a Vigilante if I'm a Resistance, and be unable to change alignment unless I say goodbye to Praetoria and do the Crossing Over mission. I'm also fine with never being able to go to Prime Earth, because I've made peace with that, and I just want more goldside content overall.) 

[Chris24601]

Frankly, I think putting the New Praetorians arc at 35-40 (originally; on HC they merely removed the back end so you could take it all the way at 50) was a huge mistake on the original devs part and sorta sits with Stateman’s death being retconned into lower tier content in terms of the biggest disruptions to the old “level = point on the timeline” rule that kept things fairly coherent.

 

I’m not entirely sure what the live devs were thinking there beyond adding more content to the biggest level slog in the game and someone deciding to basically start a second “leveling timeline” where new PCs could begin their careers already in the aftermath of the Primal/Praetorian War.

 

The only good thing is Homecoming allows you to delay it until after the war content if you want.

 

If it were up to me, I’d have moved it to be exclusively level 50 content because I really value the level = timeline approach for story arcs as a way to keep the player experience consistent.

 

The earliest you can do Stateman’s death mission is level 40, so to my sensibilities, every 1-39 mission arc should act as if Stateman is alive and all the 40-50 content should treat him as dead.

 

The real complication is the iTrials where you need to be level 50. But I think, I think there’s a way around that.

 

The current story progression for characters who are still Praetorian ends at 35 with Night Ward… and it just sorta dangles with Pazuzu thanking you and telling you Night Ward is now a permanent feature thanks to all the magic meddling and that’s it.

 

Technically you could then hop the portal, and do the whole New Praetorians/Mr. G arcs immediately and either skip the Tina/Maria arcs or just acknowledge they’re out of order.

 

But I think a viable solution to all of this timeline muddling could be as follows;

 

- Move the Praetorian portal mission exit to Primal Earth into the Vanguard headquarters in the RWZ. The portals there allow access to Blue and Red sides respectively.

 

- beginning at level 30 or 35, those who still have a Praetorian alignment can use a portal to travel to the RWZ without changing alignment. They can do any of the content in the RWZ while retaining their alignment.

 

- Move Tina and Maria to the RWZ and lower the minimum level for their arcs to 35 (and set both to a max of 50). Change any mission doors to portals within the Vanguard base. At level 35, Praetorians have Tina added as a contact automatically (and Tina introduces Maria when her arc is done).

 

- Drop the Tinpex task force level requirement to 35 and, if begun at 49 or less, the debuff for no alpha slot doesn’t apply.

 

- Create story arc versions of the iTrials with a minimum level range of 40+ for the early part and 45+ for the late ones (effectively the same range for all the other end game content) and with contacts in the RWZ. The iTrials themselves remain as they are; treated as “master runs” of the story arcs.

 

- Lower the level of Belladonna’s arc to 45+ and move the portals for its missions to the RWZ. This allows it to played in order with the iTrial story arcs.

 

- Instead of auto unlocking at 35, Marchand and Mr. G are instead offered as a choice by the last contact from the iTrial story arcs. This unlocks either Blue or Red side zone access to Praetorians along with radio/newspaper and tip missions that correspond to the respective side (i.e. hero/vigilante if you pick Marchand, villain/rogue for Mr. G). You do not gain access to regular contacts until you swap your alignment to one of the standard four, but you can team up with others for their missions normally.

 

* * * *
 

I get the “I’m gonna remain a Praetorian forever” sentiment. I really do. But CoH has never been a “choose your own canon” sorta game.

 

Even the 1-20 Praetorian arcs ultimately end up in the same place with your PC needing to go to Primal Earth and only trivial differences overall between who actually survives.

 

There is no version of any timeline where Tyrant does nuke Praetoria, Keyes doesn’t further nuke whatever survived by blowing his reactors and Hamidon doesn’t basically eat Praetorian Earth outside of Last Bastion (which only survives at all because Hami got distracted by Keyes and a full Incarnate deciding to stand in the gap… realistically it can’t stay as it is; either Praetorian Hami has to be destroyed or Last Bastion eventually falls).

 

That is the story. Praetorian Earth as a dimension habitable to humans is destroyed by the Praetorian War and the survivors relocate to Primal Earth while a handful of, frankly, fatalistic holdouts insist on throwing their lives away on a doomed cause.*
 

You can play that story… but all stories end and the ending of the “I’m staying in Praetoria til I die!” is the Last Bastion arc. You choose to stay and will one day die fighting the Hamidon. The End.

 

 If you want a story past that, it happens on Primal Earth with primal alignments, even if you’re a Praetorian.**

 

Put another way; you’re basically saying “I want to continue being an East German” after the Berlin Wall came down and East Germany stopped existing. You’re free to proclaim that to the heavens, but you’re a German (hero/villain/vigilante/rogue) now as far as classification by the world goes. Demanding more new East German content is ridiculous. East Germany is dead and gone.
 

* best case as imagine it with one of my characters is scattered tribes who developed some type of immunity to “the Devourer” before Last Bastion collapsed entirely, but are little more than stone age scavengers in a world ruled by DE monsters.
 

** worth noting is that if you started as a Praetorian, you retain unique leveling  badges regardless of what primal alignment you have.

[sponazgul]

2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

 

You can play that story… but all stories end and the ending of the “I’m staying in Praetoria til I die!” is the Last Bastion arc. You choose to stay and will one day die fighting the Hamidon. The End.

 

 If you want a story past that, it happens on Primal Earth with primal alignments, even if you’re a Praetorian.**

 

Put another way; you’re basically saying “I want to continue being an East German” after the Berlin Wall came down and East Germany stopped existing. You’re free to proclaim that to the heavens, but you’re a German (hero/villain/vigilante/rogue) now as far as classification by the world goes. Demanding more new East German content is ridiculous. East Germany is dead and gone.

 

I don't think we can really have a meaningful dialogue on this, because you seem to me to be tied to the idea that at some point in my Praetorian character's leveling up, Praetoria gets destroyed and there is no choice but for me to go to Prime Earth. I don't agree, since the Marchand arc can feature level 54 Praetorian troops (including Jane Temblor and Fusion) attacking Peregrine Island - in a time where Praetoria is falling.

 

My Praetorian Loyalist deserves to be among those Praetorians too. 

 

Just this morning, my level 42 Praetorian Loyalist  teamed up with a level 14 Resistance brute in Underground Imperial. For both of us, Praetoria is still at the height of power, even if I've been told (by people steeped in game-lore, I guess) that at my level, Praetoria is gone. But, how am I in Underground Imperial, helping a young character fight the Alpha Ghoul then? It's my reality. I'm not the one choosing some canon or not, I'm choosing to accept the reality of what I'm experiencing that Praetoria is still vibrant to me and is still in power. As a Praetorian, I haven't played any content to suggest otherwise.

 

I could continue to play as a Praetorian, helping out young Praetorians and I can do that until I hit level 50, but I won't have access to the bulk of my powersets.  I'm just asking for higher end content in Praetoria so I can make the most of my character. Anything I play I would consider to be happening before the hypothetical fall of Praetoria, and that will be in sync with the fact that I can visit Nova Praetoria at any time, and see Praetor Duncan there, even though she's fated to be eaten by Mot, betrayed by Diabolique.

 

To choose to cleave strongly to the narrative would imply that at some point, I can never go back to Nova Praetoria or else I'll be presented with evidence that Praetoria isn't destroyed, and that's silly. Praetoria's destruction is something that Prime Earth characters experience.

 

To use your analogy, the Berlin Wall is still up, and I can visit it and see it. If one day the devs turn Nova Praetoria into a crater and people can no longer make Loyalists and Resistance, then maybe I'll concede the point and cross over my Praetorian as a refugee.

[Rudra]

29 minutes ago, sponazgul said:

I don't agree, since the Marchand arc can feature level 54 Praetorian troops (including Jane Temblor and Fusion) attacking Peregrine Island - in a time where Praetoria is falling.

The Provost Marchand arc you are referring to is after the fall of Praetoria. The only thing still happening in Praetoria while you are doing the level 30-50 Provost Marchand arc is any remaining survivors are being evacuated while they still can be. (Edit again: Marchand's opening dialogue even mentions that Tyrant is in prison, and that doesn't happen until the Magisterium iTrial is completed.)

 

 

Edit: 

29 minutes ago, sponazgul said:

To choose to cleave strongly to the narrative would imply that at some point, I can never go back to Nova Praetoria or else I'll be presented with evidence that Praetoria isn't destroyed, and that's silly. Praetoria's destruction is something that Prime Earth characters experience.

I think you are misunderstanding something about the game. Yes, right now any character, even Primal ones, can go to Nova Praetoria, Imperial City, Neutropolis, the Underground, and First Ward; and be there before the fall of Praetoria. For any character that has out-leveled that content or has done any of the fall of Praetoria content, it just means their character went back in time to before the fall. And there is nothing wrong with playing in the pre-fall content all you want.

 

Edited Friday at 09:56 PM by Rudra

[tidge]

I don't think I've yet chimed in with this (in this thread): I kinda hate what the Live Devs did to Praetoria.

 

I am naturally averse to content that isn't "evergreen"... I can tolerate some little bits of Lore being odd if content is done "out of (level) order", but aside from Praetoria (including Incarnate content) and the Signature Story Arcs... the content I enjoy involves the PC's story and not the PC only mentioned like some sir-only-appearing-in-the-appendices-of-LotR. I mean... how many times can Statesman die or Praetoria be annihilated before it looks like "why bother?"

 

First Ward was IMO a triumph of evergreen story-telling... because after finishing the arcs I can almost believe that everything is put back in place for the next character to experience the exact same content.  Watching Hamidon eat Praetoria makes it a little harder to be motivated to suppress the protestors, if ya smell what I'm cooking.

 

That being said... I don't know why we couldn't have Praetorian content 35-50. Devouring Earth certainly exist at these levels, and Clockwork/IDF/Seers/Vanguard all exist at 40+. It would be I think somewhat cool to have a Gold mission arc that parallels (some of) the Tina MacIntyre arc: Capture Positron, destroy/steal dimensional macguffins, subdue a population for Praetor Berry... whatever.

[sponazgul]

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The Provost Marchand arc you are referring to is after the fall of Praetoria. The only thing still happening in Praetoria while you are doing the level 30-50 Provost Marchand arc is any remaining survivors are being evacuated while they still can be. (Edit again: Marchand's opening dialogue even mentions that Tyrant is in prison, and that doesn't happen until the Magisterium iTrial is completed.)

 

 

Edit: 

I think you are misunderstanding something about the game. Yes, right now any character, even Primal ones, can go to Nova Praetoria, Imperial City, Neutropolis, the Underground, and First Ward; and be there before the fall of Praetoria. For any character that has out-leveled that content or has done any of the fall of Praetoria content, it just means their character went back in time to before the fall. And there is nothing wrong with playing in the pre-fall content all you want.

 

 

I don't remember going back in time. I guess I should look too see if I have the Ouro power then. I feel that that's your interpretation, rather than mine.

 

Yes, I know that the Marchand arc is post fall, I'm just pointing out that there are high level Praetorians - I used his arc as an example, but it's not the only one., To suggest that my higher level 50 Praetorian is somehow an anomaly is weird to me. (I'm not saying that you are suggesting this, my response above and in this post is in response to people suggesting that to me.)

 

If I must point out high level Praetorians before the fall of Praetoria, I can point to Maria's arc, or several Incarnate Trials.

 

Although there is nothing wrong in playing in the pre-fall content all I want, I want to have access to my powers, which is why I am suggesting more content for goldside. Again, I can see trials set up versus the Hamidon and his monsters, as a means to not impact the sacred timeline of events between the interactions between Prime Earth and Praetoria.

 

[sponazgul]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

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That being said... I don't know why we couldn't have Praetorian content 35-50. Devouring Earth certainly exist at these levels, and Clockwork/IDF/Seers/Vanguard all exist at 40+. It would be I think somewhat cool to have a Gold mission arc that parallels (some of) the Tina MacIntyre arc: Capture Positron, destroy/steal dimensional macguffins, subdue a population for Praetor Berry... whatever.

 

Strong agree.