Death Penalty

[ScarySai]

Half the time I feel like the people asking for this kinda thing don't actually realize what they're asking for.

[Xion80]

21 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I’ve clarified my stance many times as never having been that but ehhh reading comprehension in 2025 isn’t a thing so I’m not surprised he missed it. 
 

Arcane, start slow, start with the Junie. B Jones series and work your way up from there. Hell we all have to start somewhere 

IDK what that is about.  Thar sounds like none of my business.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

 I don't need deep rooted feedback on a grain of salt suggestion I made. It has no true value. We either agree or disagree. I try to minimize the "extra" banter. It's not healthy, and leads to disrespectful comments. Feedback isn't a horrible thing. Making out of pocket comments? Well...

We're done. Welcome to ignore.

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, Xion80 said:

Gatekeeping sounds like a thing around here, but what exactly the folks you referenced Gatekeeping?

Gatekeeping is not a thing that happens, or that can happen, on this forum.

 

We do not have the ability to prevent the developers from seeing your suggestion thread. We do not have the ability to prevent the developers from implementing your suggestion should they choose to do so. Either of those would be an actual example of gatekeeping, but since neither of those are possible then gatekeeping is also not possible.

 

People disagreeing with your suggestion is not gatekeeping. In fact, a moderator actually posted that disagreeing with suggestions is specifically allowed.

 

2 hours ago, Xion80 said:

It's a suggestion box. Intended to drop cool ideas for fun commentary.

Yes it is. However, this is also a forum. If you're upset that people are responding to your post then I don't think you understand the purpose behind a forum.

 

2 hours ago, Xion80 said:

Many of these folks come off as angry, toxic, and snarky over nothing more than a grain of salt opinion.

None of us are responsible for the 'tone of voice' that you hear in your own head when you read our posts. If it helps the 'tone of voice' that you should hear when you read my post should sound like Mr. Spock. However, if the past is any indication, the 'tone of voice' that you'll actually hear when you read my post probably sounds a lot more like R. Lee Ermey.

 

And that's not my fault. I am not responsible for how the voices in your own head sound, or for what they say. That's entirely on you.

[Xion80]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

We're done. Welcome to ignore.

You want attention. Ignore!

[BasiliskXVIII]

The problem is that at its heart, this isn't really a hard mode. 99% of the time, players don't die. This does nothing to change this fact. If you're facerolling your way through +4/x8 content, then you can turn on this game mode and get bonus rewards, whatever they are supposed to be, for the risk of something happening that doesn't really happen. The enemies don't suddenly get instant-kill attacks, the whole thing is predicated on the player failing first. if that doesn't happen, then you're asking for something for nothing. Farms become even more ridiculous, because their whole appeal is tons of rewards for no risk. But it's also a "fail more" system. You try to push your limits, you die, and now your limits are lower, making you even less likely to succeed. As a result, if anything, this encourages people to play easier game modes, not harder. Why play at +2/x5 if you can turn on "hard mode" and play at +0/x1 instead for the same benefits?

 

This is just a compounding mess of problems disguised as a suggestion to fix a problem that it doesn't even fix.

[megaericzero]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

If we got into a fight and you manage to brake my arm. I'm pretty sure its gonna be much more difficult to take you down.

In a world where we're all chipped with emergency teleporters that put us into miraculous healing devices that repair our bodies completely and instantaneously - mechanical, biological, or otherwise. The writing can be whatever it needs - more important is getting the mechanics down as a foundation.

[Jiro Ito]

9 hours ago, Xion80 said:

Running through mission is "easy work" when you have nothing to fear after defeat. Oh look, I click the rez and get back to my feet, as if I wasn't just on the brink of death! Their should be heavy penalties for not only repetitive use of rez in a missions. But stacking debuff for multiple hospitals visits.

 

Regenerative powers/enhancements could receive more value, closing the gap on the mitigation scale. They could target these specific debuff, lowering, or flat out negating the time it takes to recover. Something resistance and defense couldn't do. These are some examples of the debuffs to name a few.

 

Concussion: Recharge debuff and protection debuff. Endurance debuff. 

 

Broken Bones: Resistance debuff. Damage debuff.

 

Lacerations: Constant DoT debuff.

 

3rd degree burns: DDR debuff. Healing debuff. 

 

Damaged Armor: Endurance cost increase for toggles.

 

Poisoned: Regen debuff. Maxhp debuff. End debuff.

 

Each could be tied to a specific damage type. No, all debuffs wouldn't hit you at the same time. For example. If you were defeated by a toxic attack, and used rez. You would be hit with the Poisoned debuff penalty. You would receive ONE of the debuffs from poisoned category for a time frame.  If you fall again to toxic attack, you get the next random poisoned debuff, and the timer increases. Every hospital visit becomes less effective as you're not following the doctor's orders. Health restores at lower increments every visit 100/75/50/25. (Opens the door to sophisticated  Super Groups medical equipment regular hospitals don't have.)

 

Team wipes should come with a penalty as well. Did your team of 8 get squished by the map? All enemy mobs will receive a buff making their resolve stronger! Now that I think about it. Why isn't their a team wiped badge?

 

This option opens the door for great rewards for heroes who play in this game mode. X3 xp? X2 influence? Think of it as a "hard mode" for Pug or solo gaming journey. If team leader is playing in this mode. A prompt should appear, informing you about his settings.

 

 

 

 

 

This seems like it creates a bigger disparity between the players who have mastered the game and those in the learning phase.  Once mastered, players who are already earning more valuable rewards at a faster rate will see that rate increase, while players who are struggling will see the game only get more difficult to play.

 

You can come up with your own "iron man" rules or punishments to handicap yourself and your teammates if you want, but I don't agree with granting even more rewards to players already crushing the game while at the same time making it harder on those who are taking it easy.

[Xion80]

4 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Gatekeeping is not a thing that happens, or that can happen, on this forum.

 

We do not have the ability to prevent the developers from seeing your suggestion thread. We do not have the ability to prevent the developers from implementing your suggestion should they choose to do so. Either of those would be an actual example of gatekeeping, but since neither of those are possible then gatekeeping is also not possible.

 

People disagreeing with your suggestion is not gatekeeping. In fact, a moderator actually posted that disagreeing with suggestions is specifically allowed.

 

Yes it is. However, this is also a forum. If you're upset that people are responding to your post then I don't think you understand the purpose behind a forum.

 

None of us are responsible for the 'tone of voice' that you hear in your own head when you read our posts. If it helps the 'tone of voice' that you should hear when you read my post should sound like Mr. Spock. However, if the past is any indication, the 'tone of voice' that you'll actually hear when you read my post probably sounds a lot more like R. Lee Ermey.

 

And that's not my fault. I am not responsible for how the voices in your own head sound, or for what they say. That's entirely on you.

That is a lot of assumption in all that banter. Snide remarks as well, yet you offer nothing of true value. Your attempt to be impress or "put on" for the forum is where your character falls short. 

 

Me!? Upset!? About what exactly? Folks saying "no" to my suggestion? Clearly you've misread. But "this" stopped being about a "fun suggestion" a while back. Folks think they can control the narrative of others. If I said "Gotcha" or "Right". I meant that! No negative energy, or condescending tone needed. Explaining and defending are two different things. Maybe folks should take your advice about voices heard in their head as they read a statement. 

 

Don't project the feelings of others onto me,  to justify your nothingness. No one is blocked on my end. I've answered every post cordially. Can you say the same?  I haven't disrespected a soul here. If you can't do the same, you know what you can do.

[Xion80]

34 minutes ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

The problem is that at its heart, this isn't really a hard mode. 99% of the time, players don't die. This does nothing to change this fact. If you're facerolling your way through +4/x8 content, then you can turn on this game mode and get bonus rewards, whatever they are supposed to be, for the risk of something happening that doesn't really happen. The enemies don't suddenly get instant-kill attacks, the whole thing is predicated on the player failing first. if that doesn't happen, then you're asking for something for nothing. Farms become even more ridiculous, because their whole appeal is tons of rewards for no risk. But it's also a "fail more" system. You try to push your limits, you die, and now your limits are lower, making you even less likely to succeed. As a result, if anything, this encourages people to play easier game modes, not harder. Why play at +2/x5 if you can turn on "hard mode" and play at +0/x1 instead for the same benefits?

 

This is just a compounding mess of problems disguised as a suggestion to fix a problem that it doesn't even fix.

It's nothing more then a suggestion. I hear you though.

[Xion80]

9 minutes ago, Jiro Ito said:

 

This seems like it creates a bigger disparity between the players who have mastered the game and those in the learning phase.  Once mastered, players who are already earning more valuable rewards at a faster rate will see that rate increase, while players who are struggling will see the game only get more difficult to play.

 

You can come up with your own "iron man" rules or punishments to handicap yourself and your teammates if you want, but I don't agree with granting even more rewards to players already crushing the game while at the same time making it harder on those who are taking it easy.

Ok! That's definitely a no!

[Xion80]

18 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

In a world where we're all chipped with emergency teleporters that put us into miraculous healing devices that repair our bodies completely and instantaneously - mechanical, biological, or otherwise. The writing can be whatever it needs - more important is getting the mechanics down as a foundation.

I get it. Thanks!

[Frozen Burn]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

I already stated the reward suggestions. The game is "easy mode" atm. If a player wanted a 

harder game experience, they could turn it off or on, on a whim, at any level. They're not "stuck" on anything. Don't we lose access to influence for an hr when we want X2 experience? Don't we lose access to abilities when we play TF under our lvl? Can't we set stipulations for Oro missions with penalties? Are any of those options permanent? Why would my suggestion be?

 

I accept that you want another challenge setting and again, in theory, this sounds great.  But not for "great rewards."  

• Yes, turn on 2x XP and you turn off Inf as a trade off. 
• When you Ex down, yes, you lose powers, but you also gain all the slots and a higher % of the bonuses they provide than someone = to you in ever way that was leveling up - so again, a trade-off. 
• Ouro missions, yes, you can set challenge settings - but for a badge reward.  Not "great rewards" which implies drops of goodies (like aethers, recipes, tons of inf, etc)

Your suggestion favors armored ATs.  They could turn on the mode, and get "great rewards" for not dying - for not doing anything different than what they would be doing if the mode was off.  It's a switch they could flip and get free rewards.  And this isn't cool or fair, as....  

 

Conversely, it punishes the squishier ATs who do tend to die a lot.  Which means, they would never turn on the mode, and thusly, not have an equal chance at the freebie "great rewards" the armored ATs get.  Or if they do turn on the mode, they would have to struggle MUCH more than the armored ATs who can basically turn on the mode and get the things for free/no danger/no risk.

 

Your idea caters to one group of players and is not a benefit to all players equally.  

 

I would be fine implementing the challenge setting, but no rewards for it.  The "challenge" should be its own reward.  

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

1 hour ago, Xion80 said:

Nah, none of that is required. You simply saying you disagree is good enough. The end.

The end of what? Your request?

I was giving you a legitimate option for an avenue for you to be able to actualize your request. If you don't want to put the work in to make your vision come true, why will anyone else?

 

Anyways best of luck.

[BasiliskXVIII]

4 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

It's nothing more then a suggestion. I hear you though.

More specifically, it's a suggestion in a suggestion forum, which means it's implicitly asking for people to point out why it might be a bad suggestion. While I'm free to suggest that a mode be added where every sound effect in the game be replaced with a sound effect of a screaming goat, even if it's optional, that would be a terrible idea and I'd expect to be told as much. Some feedback on this forum is overly critical and overly conservative. I don't think any in this particular thread has been.

[Xion80]

4 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

I accept that you want another challenge setting and again, in theory, this sounds great.  But not for "great rewards."  

• Yes, turn on 2x XP and you turn off Inf as a trade off. 
• When you Ex down, yes, you lose powers, but you also gain all the slots and a higher % of the bonuses they provide than someone = to you in ever way that was leveling up - so again, a trade-off. 
• Ouro missions, yes, you can set challenge settings - but for a badge reward.  Not "great rewards" which implies drops of goodies (like aethers, recipes, tons of inf, etc)

Your suggestion favors armored ATs.  They could turn on the mode, and get "great rewards" for not dying - for not doing anything different than what they would be doing if the mode was off.  It's a switch they could flip and get free rewards.  And this isn't cool or fair, as....  

 

Conversely, it punishes the squishier ATs who do tend to die a lot.  Which means, they would never turn on the mode, and thusly, not have an equal chance at the freebie "great rewards" the armored ATs get.  Or if they do turn on the mode, they would have to struggle MUCH more than the armored ATs who can basically turn on the mode and get the things for free/no danger/no risk.

 

Your idea caters to one group of players and is not a benefit to all players equally.  

 

I would be fine implementing the challenge setting, but no rewards for it.  The "challenge" should be its own reward.  

 

 

I respect that! I must say that I've seen a blaster mop up a fire farm, so anything is possible.

[Xion80]

3 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

The end of what? Your request?

I was giving you a legitimate option for an avenue for you to be able to actualize your request. If you don't want to put the work in to make your vision come true, why will anyone else?

 

Anyways best of luck.

That's just it. It's not that deep. I'm not looking to see anything "come to fruition" in this post. It's like "shooting the shit" about a movie or comic banter. 

[Frozen Burn]

Just now, Xion80 said:

I respect that! I must say that I've seen a blaster mop up a fire farm, so anything is possible.

 

Yes, And my blaster is one of them!  When I farm, I do so on my Ice/Fire/Fire blaster.  🙂 

 

But you're also proving my point - anyone who has a capable and survivable toon, can turn on the setting and get more rewards for free.  All the farmers would turn this on and just get more and more for free.  That's not right - for anyone - farmer or PvE player.  There needs to be greater risk for the greater rewards.  

 

As a challenge setting - sure, put it in, but no rewards.

[shortguy on indom]

• @Xion80 I WOULD SUPPORT YOUR IDEA.
• IT MAY MAKE DEFENDERS USEFUL FOR A CHANGE IN TODAYS GAME.
• ...ALSO THEIR INHERENT POWER 'VILGILANCE.'

[Xion80]

3 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

Yes, And my blaster is one of them!  When I farm, I do so on my Ice/Fire/Fire blaster.  🙂 

 

But you're also proving my point - anyone who has a capable and survivable toon, can turn on the setting and get more rewards for free.  All the farmers would turn this on and just get more and more for free.  That's not right - for anyone - farmer or PvE player.  There needs to be greater risk for the greater rewards.  

 

As a challenge setting - sure, put it in, but no rewards.

Test mode would do wonders!

[TheMoneyMaker]

If you want more difficult content, play with only SOs and skip over any freebies at the START Vendor. Not hard enough? Use the notoriety settings to increase mission difficulty. Still want more? Play TFs and set specific challenges prior to starting. You want bonus XP, get it from the START Vendor.

 

There doesn't need to be a new mode to accommodate every masochistic desire out there. Routine play is and should be routine. I don't want to see penalties and rewards for accepting them for using rez inspirations or powers, especially not powers which are designed to be part of the character's routine play. You get knocked down, use a primary or secondary power, but when you get back up you start feeling burdened because you used the power too much. Nah, not interested, not even as an optional mode. I'd rather see development time put to more useful and constructive things.

[TheMoneyMaker]

As a side note, the "death penalty" isn't always accurate. Like the many people who never kill criminal NPCs but only arrest them, my characters never die but rather are knocked out and just need to be awakened.

[arcane]

To address this idea head on, instead of the unhelpful snark I displayed earlier:

 

When the role diversity bonus of a Prismatic Aether was on beta, I learned something. Apparently, if you offer a compelling reward to a group that completes a certain task in a certain way, the people that don’t want to play that way and thus don’t get the reward feel punished, even if it was their own choice to not engage with that challenge. So… I guess that’s the primary counter to a “don’t like it, don’t have to do it” type of argument. I don’t totally know if that’s a good counter-argument, but that’s what some people will think.

 

My problem with this suggestion is more that it takes 20 years of precedent that dying in this game does not matter that much and suddenly throws it out the window. I’ll admit it: I have zero problem with dying when I play CoH. I love charging in like Leroy. Sometimes I joke that Rise of the Phoenix is part of my attack chain, or that I just wanted the large inspirations from Return to Battle. It doesn’t have huge consequences, so it’s not too stigmatizing to me. Also, in the last year or two, I have made all of my characters substantially more prone to death because they’re all built 4 star style with minimal def/res. The amount of respecing I would have to do, were this to become a new meta thing… no thanks to that.
 

So my main disappointment with this suggestion is that it specifically targets players like me and turns them into second class citizens. I guess that means I would feel punished, so maybe those people are correct.
 

For that reason, I’m out.

Edited 8 hours ago by arcane

[Xion80]

55 minutes ago, arcane said:

To address this idea head on, instead of the unhelpful snark I displayed earlier:

 

When the role diversity bonus of a Prismatic Aether was on beta, I learned something. Apparently, if you offer a compelling reward to a group that completes a certain task in a certain way, the people that don’t want to play that way and thus don’t get the reward feel punished, even if it was their own choice to not engage with that challenge. So… I guess that’s the primary counter to a “don’t like it, don’t have to do it” type of argument. I don’t totally know if that’s a good counter-argument, but that’s what some people will think.

 

My problem with this suggestion is more that it takes 20 years of precedent that dying in this game does not matter that much and suddenly throws it out the window. I’ll admit it: I have zero problem with dying when I play CoH. I love charging in like Leroy. Sometimes I joke that Rise of the Phoenix is part of my attack chain, or that I just wanted the large inspirations from Return to Battle. It doesn’t have huge consequences, so it’s not too stigmatizing to me. Also, in the last year or two, I have made all of my characters substantially more prone to death because they’re all built 4 star style with minimal def/res. The amount of respecing I would have to do, were this to become a new meta thing… no thanks to that.
 

So my main disappointment with this suggestion is that it specifically targets players like me and turns them into second class citizens. I guess that means I would feel punished, so maybe those people are correct.
 

For that reason, I’m out.

Second class citizen off a suggestion? It's not that serious,  but I do appreciate your feedback. And here I was thinking about a permadeath option for fun!

Edited 7 hours ago by Xion80
Added statement

[Seed22]

6 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Half the time I feel like the people asking for this kinda thing don't actually realize what they're asking for.

That’s what I’m saying. You SAY you want extreme hardcore “challenge” and then if or when that occurs, you pull an Shadow of the Erdtree, complain about it being unfair, then review bomb the content.

 

Except CoH’s review bomb equivalent is…I dunno actually. Yelling at the devs?