Brutes: to taunt or not to taunt

[Croax]

I am playing a SS/Will brute and i did take taunt. It is because i feel in lower lvls it is needed. My Powerset has only one bad and ugly ranged attack and sonetimes i need more enemys around me to rise up to the challange (pun intended). So taunting enemys from the next group makes my life sometimes easier, they shoot at me and come a little closer.

 

Also there is a really good set that gives a big boost to s/l/melee defence, which i like to slot. It is part of my build to get 45% def without incarnates. I don't remember the name but it procs a laughable amount of psi damage from time to time.

 

[Zolgar]

 

Also what are Stalkers if not Alt-Scrappers? :U

 

Blasters.

 

The intention was:

MM = Tank

Brute = Scrapper

Stalker = Blaster

Corr = Def

Dom = Controller

 

At least as far as their primary role within a team goes.

 

Also, the only brutes I have that take taunt are Stoners, or if the concept calls for it. Or if at level 50 I have a spare power pick but no spare slots. >.>

[jack_nomind]

all of the villain classes are intentionally solo-friendly role hybrids and making a 1:1 list of H:V ATs is futile.  since the prototype for 'solo-able dps AT' at the time was Scrapper, here's one that's equally as valid:

 

Brute : Scrapper

Stalker : Scrapper

Dominator : Scrapper

Corruptor : Ranged Scrapper

Mastermind : Six Scrappers

 

on the original topic, Taunt is bar-none the most effective encounter control tool available to Brutes and Tankers.  it's skippable purely because the threshhold of viable utility for encounter control now is so high that even Controllers don't always hit it; but there's always at least fringe benefit to killing the range on a group of enemies on demand.

[Heraclea]

I take it, late in the build, not until Tough and Weave are in place. 

[Bloodofcaine]

I don't want to fill the role of primary tank ever. That's another reason I chose Brute over Tank. I can get most of the def that I want, and not be expected to know how to instantly tank for any PUG I may join.

 

Yeah, I'm finding that if I join a pug without a tank, someone will stand behind me and gently push me forward, saying "hey, go aggro them." I don't want to primarily tank, but it seems like I need to be able to fill in as a tank on occasion.

 

To be fair in such a case, that is simply logical. Chances are that as a brute you have superior defenses/resistances to other people on the team with the added benefit that your attacks piss off mobs. You may not be a tank but you can take a hit better than your team with the added benefit that getting hit is good for you anyway as it builds your fury faster. In such a situation I don't see why you WOULDN'T leap in first.

[Xaeon]

 

Also what are Stalkers if not Alt-Scrappers? :U

 

Blasters.

 

The intention was:

MM = Tank

Brute = Scrapper

Stalker = Blaster

Corr = Def

Dom = Controller

 

At least as far as their primary role within a team goes.

 

Also, the only brutes I have that take taunt are Stoners, or if the concept calls for it. Or if at level 50 I have a spare power pick but no spare slots. >.>

The devs only revealed that they initially invisioned MMs as tanks during the conceptual phase of CoV when they introduced the body guard mode for masterminds before later abandoning the concept in favour of giving brutes more aggro management and stripping out aggro management from the alpha concept of masterminds as something that MMs almost never willingly did for the team. Now days, masterminds are durable if built right but unless you take provocation (which very few people do because it's garbage) your mastermind is incapable of truly being a tank. And even with that, if a brute or tanker so much as sneezes on the enemy mobs they pull the attentions of the enemy mobs away from the mastermind and their pets. 

 

This is further solidified by Brutes sharing Ancillary pools with Tankers and Scrappers sharing ancillary pools with Stalkers; further solidifying the idea that they are equivalent.

 

Let's not repeat a tired meme based around a concept abandoned before CoV even reached beta.

[Zolgar]

Let's not repeat a tired meme based around a concept abandoned before CoV even reached beta.

 

I mean, I hate people trying to assign the CoV archetypes "equivalents" to the CoH archetypes. It seems to me that around the time they gave up on the list I gave, they also gave up on the idea that archetypes were equal, and more went with the CoV archetypes being more solo friendly and a little less stuck in one role than CoH ATs.

 

A tank is agro management.

A scrapper is DPS.

A blaster is DPS/light crowd control

A controller is crowd control/support.

A defender is support/light DPS

 

A brute is agro management/DPS.

A stalker at launch was Boss killer (at launch they weren't very good for DPS due to their best damage options typically being to fade in and out of combat for as many crits as they could get, before the ATOs and the stalker changes that put them much closer to scrappers.)

A corruptor is DPS/Support

A dominator is crowd control/DPS

A Mastermind is alpha soak/DPS/Support

 

There was really no equivalency, yet people constantly tried to shoehorn one in. To say Brutes are tanks is true, but to say they are scrappers is true too. To say dominators are controllers is true, but it is also true to say they are blasters or scrappers. Each CoV archetype is capable of being specced to fill multiple roles fairly well (except launch stalkers which were one-trick ponies), where are CoH archetypes were more about filling one role especially well.

[Marshal_General]

I wasn't going to keep it after a respec, but after seeing how many mobs like to run from me, I like the ability to injure their pride by yelling the perfect zinger at them. They come back for the beating they deserve.

[Darkir]

On 7/2/2019 at 9:55 AM, ed_anger said:

 

Yeah, I'm finding that if I join a pug without a tank, someone will stand behind me and gently push me forward, saying "hey, go aggro them." I don't want to primarily tank, but it seems like I need to be able to fill in as a tank on occasion.

This. Most groups just want someone to take the first hits and tear the mob apart. So Taunt isn't really needed. Just have decent def and resists and the team will be happy with you taking the alpha strike and your pokevoke.

[Chrome]

I would like to point out at this stage of meta...there is literally no point in playing a tanker whatsoever, i play my brute to tank...with taunt...with the intention of tanking as they are purely just a better tank...you can easily get resistances of choice to 90% and defenses as well, depending on the flavor of brute.  You can more easily add defenses to a brute to make them equivalent to tankers but with more damage, doing the opposite is impossible.  the important question here is why play a tanker at all ?

[drbuzzard]

I have one brute who's well enough decked out to be more durable than most tanks. He's got taunt, because I don't mind running him in a pretty tanker fashion. I had room for the power, and I don't use any slots on it. My other brute doesn't have taunt (though they are pretty durable as well). 

[Shazzie]

I've never taken Taunt on my Brutes. I have taken Provoke on some of my MMs. Either of those will gladly wade in first- the Brute because 'Got Fury Can't Stop' and the MM (either those with or without Provoke) because I've got bodyguards and buffs to soak the alpha.

[plewto]

On 7/20/2019 at 5:34 PM, Zolgar said:

 

I mean, I hate people trying to assign the CoV archetypes "equivalents" to the CoH archetypes. It seems to me that around the time they gave up on the list I gave, they also gave up on the idea that archetypes were equal, and more went with the CoV archetypes being more solo friendly and a little less stuck in one role than CoH ATs.

 

A tank is agro management.

A scrapper is DPS.

A blaster is DPS/light crowd control

A controller is crowd control/support.

A defender is support/light DPS

 

A brute is agro management/DPS.

A stalker at launch was Boss killer (at launch they weren't very good for DPS due to their best damage options typically being to fade in and out of combat for as many crits as they could get, before the ATOs and the stalker changes that put them much closer to scrappers.)

A corruptor is DPS/Support

A dominator is crowd control/DPS

A Mastermind is alpha soak/DPS/Support

 

There was really no equivalency, yet people constantly tried to shoehorn one in. To say Brutes are tanks is true, but to say they are scrappers is true too. To say dominators are controllers is true, but it is also true to say they are blasters or scrappers. Each CoV archetype is capable of being specced to fill multiple roles fairly well (except launch stalkers which were one-trick ponies), where are CoH archetypes were more about filling one role especially well.

Your post is pretty dead on... From what I remember, brutes tanked day one CoV but they were squishier than a tanker so we usually tried to get two in a group or a MM to help split alpha. But MM's complained when their pets got smashed so they kind of sucked until later levels since it was slow summoning for each group. I ran a Mind/Energy Dom and mostly took down bosses and Lieuts, played more like a scrapper/blapper . I remember there weren't a lot of Dominators, for some reason, and in my 30's and 40's would get tells from people who hadn't even grouped with one before. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by plewto