Brutes: to taunt or not to taunt

[ed_anger]

So I've leveling up a brute and looking at brute builds and noticing that many/most don't take taunt. Just curious why... are people not planning as filling in as a tank ever, or do they think taunt isn't needed to do so?

[HelenCarnate]

I run in first, take the alpha, spam AoE. Green bar debuffs are great taunts

[dmaker]

It's the no tanking thing for me. I don't want to tank. In other games I have played tanking can have a steep learning curve. Once you get good at it, you can be a great foundation for your team. If you suck at it, people will be annoyed with you. I don't want to fill the role of primary tank ever. That's another reason I chose Brute over Tank. I can get most of the def that I want, and not be expected to know how to instantly tank for any PUG I may join.

 

 

[ZemyaSoldat]

I warn people that I'm a decent (possibly even good) brute, but a horrible tank. And I stand by that. If I manage to keep aggro, that's great and I'm glad to do it, but the tank playstyle isn't for me.

[ed_anger]

I don't want to fill the role of primary tank ever. That's another reason I chose Brute over Tank. I can get most of the def that I want, and not be expected to know how to instantly tank for any PUG I may join.

 

Yeah, I'm finding that if I join a pug without a tank, someone will stand behind me and gently push me forward, saying "hey, go aggro them." I don't want to primarily tank, but it seems like I need to be able to fill in as a tank on occasion.

[Xionian]

Sometimes I take taunt because I like the animation... Like Staff Melee... I taunt nearly dead minions... just to see the animation  :P

Edit: and to show dominance of course..

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Honestly heavy tanking is generally not needed. Most teams just need someone who can take the alpha strike whether that a Brute, a Tanker, or just a Blaster with a ton of defense buffs doesn't really matter. For most cases the built in taunt that Brutes have on their attacks and taunt aura is more than sufficient.

 

There are a few places where having Taunt is somewhat important (such as STF and Hamidon) but those are the exception not the rule.

 

That being said Taunt is useful as a range debuff to encourage enemies to come closer to you for punching.

[Rylas]

I consider Brutes to be the Mounds to Tanker's Almond Joy. Sometimes you feel like a taunt, sometimes you don't.

[DSorrow]

I'd take taunt on brutes if the build has space for it, but it's not something I'd force in there at the cost of damage or survivability. My TW/Elec has taunt, but he's built as a damage/tank hybrid and I didn't feel like I had to give up anything to have taunt.

[Rathulfr]

It's been my observation that most folks playing Brutes these days are playing DPS, like they're Scrappers with better durability, instead of as Tankers with better damage.  Consequently, they're choosing to forego Taunt in favor of another power that might be more useful for DPS, defense, or resistance.

 

[Nyghtmaire]

 

 

That being said Taunt is useful as a range debuff to encourage enemies to come closer to you for punching.

 

This. And depending on the build’s needs, a good place for a Mocking Beratement or Perfect Zinger set.

[dmaker]

It's been my observation that most folks playing Brutes these days are playing DPS, like they're Scrappers with better durability, instead of as Tankers with better damage.  Consequently, they're choosing to forego Taunt in favor of another power that might be more useful for DPS, defense, or resistance.

 

Yes, very much so.

 

[Sanguinesun]

So I've leveling up a brute and looking at brute builds and noticing that many/most don't take taunt. Just curious why... are people not planning as filling in as a tank ever, or do they think taunt isn't needed to do so?

 

If you want to be a full on tank then you play a tank.

If you want to play an off tank/assistant tank, then you build a brute with taunt.

If you want to play primarily a damage dealer that can "oh no" tank if fillingly needed when a tank goes down or if a group doesn't have a tank but has lots of heals n buffs for you, then you play choice is a brute first, a scrapper second...(depending as well on their secondaries), a stalker third and a sentinel fourth(not recommended but again in an oh no situation when nothing else is up).

 

And it just scales down from there.

 

So there is no reason you can't become as a tank since originally that's what vil content side intended for them to be.  But given the inherent damage capabilities, they are more often played for their damage dealing.  They still taunt though with almost every damage output they do(even so much as for my brutes to actually pull aggro off tanks who aren't at their best).

 

So what it boils down to then is what sort of playstyle you desire to do and then adjusting your choices accordingly.

[Xaeon]

The amount of aggro my rad/rad brute already draws with Irradiated Ground and Beta Decay makes taunt very much unnecessary in most cases. Once I have ground zero and atom smasher I will basically pokevoke everything even vaguely near me anyway.

[Snarky]

I never take taunt and I Brute a LOT. That said I have a lot of practice Bruting without taunt.  One of the reasons is back in the day we had to get fitness and travel powers were a 2 power investment. So that always hurt

 

The second reason is Brutes we’re not designed to tank.  I have seen Controllers tank but that does not mean they were designed for it. CoV vision was for MMS to tank. Brutes were envisioned as heavyweight scrapers.

 

In reality Brutes are a straightforward impatient lot and will not stand behind a wall of robots. They charge in eat the alpha strike peg fury and have fun

 

So.... Redside teams learned to work around Brute players by accepting the unchangeable. Brutes charged in then Dons and Corruptirs started locking people down and killing. If you agro it off the Brute do not expect help. Kill it.  So the ROFLSTOMP redside teams were born

 

I still run Brutes75% time. I do not take taunt.  I aim for the Super Sappers and CoT worst mage I can find or any Boss in general get right up on them and kill them.  I run misty Invul and Will armor which I feel is best suited to my favored stupid tactics. No need to taunt. They seem to get the point

[Rathulfr]

No need to taunt. They seem to get the point

[Apparition]

The only thing that you really need taunt for is Hamidon raids.  Other than that, there's no real point.  My main Brute is a level 50 Radiation/Radiation Brute.  Irradiated Ground, Beta Decay, and regular attacks will catch the attention of most things.  For a few things like the STF, I use a Melee Radial Embodiment Hybrid Incarnate.  Good enough.

[Xaeon]

I never take taunt and I Brute a LOT. That said I have a lot of practice Bruting without taunt.  One of the reasons is back in the day we had to get fitness and travel powers were a 2 power investment. So that always hurt

 

The second reason is Brutes we’re not designed to tank.  I have seen Controllers tank but that does not mean they were designed for it. CoV vision was for MMS to tank. Brutes were envisioned as heavyweight scrapers.

 

In reality Brutes are a straightforward impatient lot and will not stand behind a wall of robots. They charge in eat the alpha strike peg fury and have fun

 

So.... Redside teams learned to work around Brute players by accepting the unchangeable. Brutes charged in then Dons and Corruptirs started locking people down and killing. If you agro it off the Brute do not expect help. Kill it.  So the ROFLSTOMP redside teams were born

 

I still run Brutes75% time. I do not take taunt.  I aim for the Super Sappers and CoT worst mage I can find or any Boss in general get right up on them and kill them.  I run misty Invul and Will armor which I feel is best suited to my favored stupid tactics. No need to taunt. They seem to get the point

Jack Emmeret may have envisioned Masterminds as tanks but Jack Emmeret was also a blubbering idiot who never once correctly predicted how any of his mechanics worked out. Few people actually used their pets to absorb damage for other players in CoV and even fewer bothered with any sort of aggro management; leaving us poor brute mains to pick up the slack for them.

 

Also what are Stalkers if not Alt-Scrappers? :U

[Liam1986]

I taunt on a scrapper because you're not my dad

[Frostweaver]

And that is exactly why AT Proliferation was such a bad idea. Now ALL teams have the same flow as CoV teams used to, and that flow sucks.

[Corruption]

And that is exactly why AT Proliferation was such a bad idea. Now ALL teams have the same flow as CoV teams used to, and that flow sucks.

 

What about it sucks? Killing this without a tank taunting first?

[JusticeBowler]

Jack Emmeret may have envisioned Masterminds as tanks but Jack Emmeret was also a blubbering idiot who never once correctly predicted how any of his mechanics worked out. Few people actually used their pets to absorb damage for other players in CoV and even fewer bothered with any sort of aggro management; leaving us poor brute mains to pick up the slack for them.

 

That's not how MM's work as Tanks (if you play one that way). You are supposed to put your pets in defensive mode so they share your damage. The problem is that with the necessary buffs to pets to make them survive even the most trivial of late game AoEs they had to nerf MM's own pool so low that even with the defenses you can patch together, most MMs can't tank because they can't take the alpha and generally have no status protection.

 

I'm not sure they meant for Brutes not to be tanks though, they gave them taunt, status protection, and not MMs.

 

But CoV was supposed to take CoH innovations (from bending the holy trinity to outright breaking it). And they succeeded. Many people think they broke it dead in a bad way. I'm not editorializing on that here. But it is "different."

 

I'm not defending Jack. I've roasted him plenty of times in plenty of posts. I'm just talking about the mechanics of what it looks like when MM's tank.

[Xaeon]

Jack Emmeret may have envisioned Masterminds as tanks but Jack Emmeret was also a blubbering idiot who never once correctly predicted how any of his mechanics worked out. Few people actually used their pets to absorb damage for other players in CoV and even fewer bothered with any sort of aggro management; leaving us poor brute mains to pick up the slack for them.

 

That's not how MM's work as Tanks (if you play one that way). You are supposed to put your pets in defensive mode so they share your damage. The problem is that with the necessary buffs to pets to make them survive even the most trivial of late game AoEs they had to nerf MM's own pool so low that even with the defenses you can patch together, most MMs can't tank because they can't take the alpha and generally have no status protection.

 

I'm not sure they meant for Brutes not to be tanks though, they gave them taunt, status protection, and not MMs.

 

But CoV was supposed to take CoH innovations (from bending the holy trinity to outright breaking it). And they succeeded. Many people think they broke it dead in a bad way. I'm not editorializing on that here. But it is "different."

 

I'm not defending Jack. I've roasted him plenty of times in plenty of posts. I'm just talking about the mechanics of what it looks like when MM's tank.

Yeah but simply being survivable doesn't make you a tank. A tank is about managing aggro and taking hits for other players. Which only a handful of MMs do because you really have to go out of your way to dip into the hot garbage that is the presence pool to do it. Which is a waste of precious power and pool choices in 99% of cases and even then, Provoke is just laughably inferior to a true taunt power. Without these powers to aggro manage, if someone else so much as sneezes a tankermind is never going to be able to hold the enemy's attention as a Brute or Tanker or Kheld constantly drags the enemy's attacks away by just existing.

[Snarky]

I run A Lot of Brutes.  I posted here why taunt is not worth taking for me on a Brute.  So, here I go, showing once again I am wrong. But I am right.  Except when I am wrong

 

I am starting to level a Dark/Dark Brute.  Very rare for me have not run one since a year or two before live shut down. Very rare because they do everything opposite of the way I run Brutes.  I run Brutes as JagdTigers. As much as I can. Basically a tank with one huge attack and defenses so locked in there is no turret just more armor. One way to win. Face the enemy and hit the enemy.  Dark armor is not that armor.

 

Dark Armor is semi squishy (which does not feel like Bruting to me). I farmed a dark/fire brute back on live but did not like it.  I ran a couple incarnate Blasters on live. I ran a dozen or so Sentinels (I like) to 20-30s since I been back.  So... I am running this Dark Armor as a zero range squishy that has the tools to survive if played smart. One of those tools is taunt.  Dark armor has stealth. In a brute. That means mobs outside my AoE toggles usually will not deal with me.  Better things to do which to them are closer. That helps me survive. But if I am happily roasting a few mobs and can draw some to me without moving?  Yep. Taunt. Notice it is not to tank. It is not to save a blaster. It is to make my life easier.  Just telling some Superstunner to fly over and get their but kicked. That way I don’t have to chase them. Add a nice enhancer in there (need to pick still) and I get a set mule maybe

 

Do Taunt. If it works for you. My deathly magical Dark/Dark will taunt. My Tankiest Dark/Invul and SS/Willpower will not. They just jump into a mob and start punching.  But having a magical power that controls a mob into dying?  So fits my Death Dark/Dark theme!

[Ozryk]

Waste of a power pick, imo. You can take the alpha, and your team should be able to mop everyone up shortly thereafter.