Is Broadsword/ as bad as it seems?

[stoops7]

I have a 27 broadsword/WP brute and I've got to say.. it is so boring to play. Even with SO's I run in and slap one baddie for 30-60, meanwhile my team does twice as much to the entire mob in AoE and are all dead before i kill mine. I know some builds are more geared toward tanking, but the damage is so small, and sword's two AOE's are so tiny and weak. I don't have an in depth understanding of the mechanics of defenses yet, but isn't Lethal damage pretty much reduced by everything? Is sword/ good in a way that I just don't see yet?

 

I have been told that things pick up a bit once i get the last sword power at 32, but even still weak, compared to my TW brute who demolishes pretty much everything with his 3 AOE attacks, even unslotted.

 

Anyone have any experience or advice with this? Is it just WP that's bad? Did TW spoil me? Pretty much set on abandoning the character for now.

[Razor Cure]

BS is pretty good..on a Scrapper. AT least I had one. The damage was nice, but anything that resist Lethal damage..is gonna take awhile to kill!

Brutes have lower base damage, so I can certainly see where you are coming from! Parry is really good though (but not for damage).

I wouldn't say it is a bad set..but there are many better ones. As an aside, I'd never even consider BS on a brute.

[Zakmonster]

Broadsword is geared more towards massive single-target damage. In a team, you want to focus on the hard targets, like bosses and such, and deal with them. Leave the AoE to your teammates.

 

What this means when soloing is that you want to have a few higher-level mobs, instead of many same-level mobs. Same principle applies to other sets like Katana and Psi Melee.

[Riverdusk]

Keep in mind katana is pretty much a carbon copy of broadsword but superior damage over time.  There are still reasons to go broadsword of course just for personal preference (or wanting to pair it with shield), but if you are going for efficiency, katana would be the better route.

[Chaos String]

There are three broadsword attacks that don't suck: Headsplitter, Hack and Disembowel.  The problem is that it requires a LOT of recharge to put together a decent attack chain with just those three.  On the other hand, Parry can help you reach defensive softcaps, and Broadsword, unlike Katana (which is similar but mathematically superior in every way except single-hit burst damage), can pair with Shield Defense, which is a hilariously overpowered secondary.  So it's a bit of a mixed bag, but you are correct in observing that broadsword is inherently underpowered.

[stoops7]

For anyone in a similar situation, i rerolled BS/SD scrapper and it kicks butt.

[Riverdusk]

Good to hear!

[ParaBruce]

For anyone in a similar situation, i rerolled BS/SD scrapper and it kicks butt.

 

Forgive my noobness, but what is it about scrapper that makes this combo perform better?

 

[Riverdusk]

For anyone in a similar situation, i rerolled BS/SD scrapper and it kicks butt.

 

Forgive my noobness, but what is it about scrapper that makes this combo perform better?

 

He also changed his secondary, not sure which improved it for him, or both.  Shield does add more damage.  Broadsword is slow, so building up fury is tougher compared to the more straightforward scrapper damage perhaps.

[SinergyX]

For anyone in a similar situation, i rerolled BS/SD scrapper and it kicks butt.

 

Forgive my noobness, but what is it about scrapper that makes this combo perform better?

 

He also changed his secondary, not sure which improved it for him, or both.  Shield does add more damage.  Broadsword is slow, so building up fury is tougher compared to the more straightforward scrapper damage perhaps.

BS isn't that slow, animation its nearly identical to axe and mace, and depending on the heavy hitters, KC or EM are considerable slower.

 

Cooldown it depends what you focus, T1 is quite long compared to others, but the T7 to T9 are faster then others.

 

[Sidious]

I play a BS/WP Brute and it's not that slow. I have hasten (which figures into recharge immensely) and usually do my rotation without issue. Once the fury builds it's a VERY powerful attack. I would suggest working on large "hard" targets or large mobs to build it up. Also it helps to keep a fast tempo to the missions so as not to loose your fury between mobs.

[Shinobu]

 

Broadsword's main sin is that it's one of the original sets and I don't think it was ever updated, so the attack animations are pretty basic.  That, and it's not the best at anything in particular.  But it does hit extremely hard with some of the higher attacks, and makes a satisfying crunch when it does.  ^_^

[marcussmythe]

Many ‘launch’ sets have aged quite poorly.  Others (Fire, DM, Spines all stick with me) have shown much better.

 

I think part of the problem is they were not created with a lvl 50 IO Incarnate world in mind - the idea that Broadsword debuffed defense, meaning you hit more often, was enough to in the developers minds make it on par with the raw damage of Fire or the AOE of Spines.

[Erydanus]

Forgive my noobness, but what is it about scrapper that makes this combo perform better?

One thing to keep in mind is that usually a Brute should have an attack on autofire so that fury can be built. Usually in a powerset the first attack is a 3 or 4  second cooldown and the second is a 6 or 8 second cooldown. Broadsword's first two attacks are 8 and 4 seconds which is fine ... but Parry at level 8 is a 3 second cooldown. That's your fury-maker and it's also a stacking defense buff. Using that instead of Slash probably helped a lot. Shield is a bit more active than WP, having that instead of WP probably felt more engaged too.

 

Parry, under IOs, is hilarious. It takes melee damage, Taunt (for Brutes anyway), and defense sets. Here's the list of procs/global IOs you can slot with it for fun excluding purple/AT/PVP options:

 

Pounding Slugfest % Stun

Kinetic Combat % Knockdown

Touch of Death % Negative Energy Damage

Mako's Bite % Lethal Damage

Karma: Knockback Protection

Kismet: 6% Global Accuracy

Gift of the Ancients: Run Speed

Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed

Reactive Defenses: Scaling Damage Resistance

Triumphant Insult: % Stun

Perfect Zinger: % Psi Damage

 

Since it's an attack and needs accuracy I wouldn't actually slot it with say the Luck of the Gambler as a wholeset, but you could mix melee and taunt sets and cram in a couple procs and still have some defense buffs on there. Depending on your build if you need a dump slot to put a LOTG recharge proc in, this is a viable option. The faster and weaker an attack is, the more it benefits from damage procs which is why if I were messing around instead of straight damage I'd probably do something like this:

 

Perfect Zinger % Psi

Perfect Zinger Acc/Recharge

Touch of Death % Negative

Touch of Death Acc/End/Rech

Red Fortune Def/Rech

Red Fortune Def/End/Rech

 

The enhancement numbers would be about 45% acc, 20% damage, 28% defense, 40% endredux, 73% recharge (bringing it down to 1.7 seconds). The defense buff from this power can stack up to 3x so it's generating a constant 58% defense to lethal and melee damage. It's a pretty fun power to play with.

 

 

 

 

[marcussmythe]

Also, Brutes have a -lot- more room to not slot for damage than other damage dealers, due to Fury.  Obviously you still want to, but its not as critical.

[DarschPugs]

For anyone in a similar situation, i rerolled BS/SD scrapper and it kicks butt.

 

Forgive my noobness, but what is it about scrapper that makes this combo perform better?

 

Brutes are meant to do low to medium damage and be more tanky than a scrapper, think of them like a halfway point between a scrapper and a tanker. They were the villians version of a tank back when they could only be a villian. Scrappers on the other hand are high damage out the gate as a DPS"class" and they get to do critical hits for extra damage. But they are not as tough, on paper at any rate. I have seen some brutes do insane damage and some scrappers be harder to kill than a tanker.

[marcussmythe]

The recharge speed increase in SR offsets some of the longer recharge times in BS, and BS’s best  attacks are often the ones with extended recharge times.

 

As to End, a Scrapper will usually show better than a Brute for END.  Its higher base damage means that it does more damage per attack, so it takes less attacks to defeat a foe - less endurance used.  Similarly, the Brute Fury mechanic rewards a very aggressive, attack-spamming, move quickly to next group of foes playstyle - which is also hard on Endurance.

 

Thus, a natural synergy lies as between END efficient sets with lots of fast animating attacks and the Brute AT.

 

All of the above aside, a BS Brute is not ‘bad wrong stupid’, it will just take more levels/slots to sing.

 

[Riverdusk]

For anyone in a similar situation, i rerolled BS/SD scrapper and it kicks butt.

 

Forgive my noobness, but what is it about scrapper that makes this combo perform better?

 

Brutes are meant to do low to medium damage and be more tanky than a scrapper, think of them like a halfway point between a scrapper and a tanker. They were the villians version of a tank back when they could only be a villian. Scrappers on the other hand are high damage out the gate as a DPS"class" and they get to do critical hits for extra damage. But they are not as tough, on paper at any rate. I have seen some brutes do insane damage and some scrappers be harder to kill than a tanker.

 

Funny side note, I'd swear I remember a dev saying they thought masterminds would act as the tank of the villain side.  Players never saw it that way though.

[Blackwood]

Are there any Broadsword abilities that are worth skipping? (Asking for a Tanker grabbing Shield/Broad Sword)

[ChocolateMercenary]

Well, lots of posters are missing the other half of this. Willpower is boring. Set and forget, much like a reliable used car.  Just don't push it and WP will always get you where you to the destination, but it isn't showy. The only clicky in the set is a mediocre and skippable T9, only good for Alpha soaking. WP is a good set, but nothing close to OP.

[Some Random User]

Are there any Broadsword abilities that are worth skipping?

Still haven't heard any answers.

 

In another thread I was told to use Parry to build up your Fury... unless you play /Invulnerability. In another thread I was told to slot for 100% recharge reduction (probably using Haste) and then attack using Hack --> Disembowel --> Hack --> Headsplitter. I have not had the time and levels to test this approach for myself. I would like to hear others opinions. If you've played a Broad Sword/ and can offer advice on this approach I'd appreciate that.

[jack_nomind]

Played BS/SR scrapper to 50, if that matters to you.

 

• Figuring out your best attack chain in sets without combo mechanics, follow-up, or etc is fairly straightforward; you don't need to 'test' them, you just math them.  In BR, your highest DPA attacks are Head Splitter, Hack, and Disembowel, in that order (with HS and Hack having a negligible difference really).  None of the other attacks in the set are close enough to reasonably act as filler.  You want to get as close as you can to Hack->HS->repeat, but can use Disembowel as a filler.
  The minimum recharge times (500% speed) are 2.8s; 1.6s; and 2s; (total 6.4s); the animation times are ~2.51s; ~1.59s; 1.98s; (total 6.08s).  This is a little worrisome because no attack charges faster than its own cast time.  And since even at ideal recharge times HS takes longer than Hack's animation time to cycle, and the entire set of three takes longer to cycle than to cast, the best fit looks something like Disembowel -> Hack -> HS -> Hack (7.67 cast, 8s recharge).  Since that still doesn't quite cut it, you'll need to throw in one other activation as filler.  Highest DPA of the remaining attacks is Slash, but Parry would be a logical choice because of the secondary benefit.  Build-Up also works, when it's up.

• You can do a similar thing to work out the highest AoE attack chain.  Usually your AoE attack chain is less important because the things you're AoEing are much weaker than the things you have to focus an ST attack chain on, but for some builds their entire point is AoE.

• Anything not on either list, and not having some particular buff/debuff/other benefit that warrants occasionally losing attack time is skippable.  Having a complete AoE attack chain is optional.  Bit of a judgment call.  For BS, Slash and (by end-game) Slice are often considered skippable, and sometimes Parry is as well (Build-UP/Whirling Sword are used as the filler attack even in ST attack chains at that point).

• Parry is less useful on Invuln and a few other sets because those sets rely on typed defenses, which are usually buffed in pairs; Parry only buffs a single typed defense, so it doesn't work as nicely.  Most people prefer to have a stable softcap if at all possible and not rely on the unevenness of Parry.  It can still, even in the worst case, serve as a slot mule for an LotG.

• Broadsword is one of the lowest-DPS melee sets.  It's not quite "as bad" on Brute because Fury flattens out damage to an extent, but still...

 

Hope all that helps.

[marcussmythe]

If you want to see Broadsword at its best, I think the Stalkers are doing great things with it - Stalker Crit Mechanics love high damage attacks, and of the -Stalker- sets, Broadsword is one of the stronger performers in that regard.  Especially with Shield.

 

At least one other set that proliferated to Stalkers and had super-high-damage attacks got a specific ‘no crits/reduced crits’ applied to it, to avoid the shenanigans they are pulling with BS.  That was EM.

[Some Random User]

This is useful.

 

I'm interested in discussing what Invention Enhancement Sets go with Broadsword/ if you already have the math worked out and don't mind walking me through the why.

[Sidious]

If you want to see Broadsword at its best, I think the Stalkers are doing great things with it - Stalker Crit Mechanics love high damage attacks, and of the -Stalker- sets, Broadsword is one of the stronger performers in that regard.  Especially with Shield.

 

At least one other set that proliferated to Stalkers and had super-high-damage attacks got a specific ‘no crits/reduced crits’ applied to it, to avoid the shenanigans they are pulling with BS.  That was EM.

 

This is true. BS is a single target melee damage power. You wont see them taunting a horde of mobs and taking them all out quickly. You WILL see them in the middle of said horde hack and cutting through them and eventually standing on the pile of bodies though.

 

When in a group it's best to target a "hard" target (Boss, Elite Boss, AV) and just have the BS go to town on them.

Otherwise they should be catching any enemies that haven't been taunted and bring them to the tank or going after enemies in the backfield.

 

I want to say it's more of a "Beta" position for a person to play, but in a pinch it can serve as the "alpha" role in the team. (wolf pack terms not damage/strike terms)