Allow Masterminds to choose their weapons

[Annapuma]

I love my MM's but for some of my ideas I would really love for them to have the weapons that one of the other MM types has.

e.g.

I would have loved it if my Thug/Pain MM could have chosen the whip that the Demon MM gets. 

I tend to hate the archery feel for my Ninja MM (so I fully skipped all the weapon powers on that toon....) so I would have loved it if I could choose any of the other MM weapon types.

 

Is there a way that we can make MM's choose a 'weapon set' at creation? (Maybe like the code used for the VEATS once they reach the level to make a choice of how to 'evolve')

 

AP

[Sakura Tenshi]

It’d be a nightmare for programming, but I’ve suggested something similar, though the idea was also that the extra effects would be appropriately added to the right “main set”, so assault rifle would still summon wraiths on Necromancer MMs as whips would give pack mentality for beasts.

 

and as an aside, I would enjoy the idea of Archery on Beast Mastery for a whole “hunting pack master” thing.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Annapuma said:

I love my MM's but for some of my ideas I would really love for them to have the weapons that one of the other MM types has.

Here's the problem - no other power set has the kind of interchangeability you are asking for.  It's not that I am against the idea, but it doesn't have any precedent and it unlikely to be something that is easily implemented.  I think a better approach would be to add a series of MM-primary-inspired APPs with those attacks/powers, (though those might be better suited to other ATs)...

[TheMoneyMaker]

3 hours ago, Annapuma said:

 

I tend to hate the archery feel for my Ninja MM (so I fully skipped all the weapon powers on that toon....) so I would have loved it if I could choose any of the other MM weapon types.

 

Bow and arrow ninjas make no sense at all in a game that has shurikens available.

[biostem]

36 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Bow and arrow ninjas make no sense at all in a game that has shurikens available.

It is weird, considering the Ninja henchmen use shuriken attacks, (though only a single animation, IIRC)...

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Bow and arrow ninjas make no sense at all in a game that has shurikens available.

Bow and arrow ninjas makes perfect sense since that was one of the weapons used by ninjas according to the tradition and shuriken as in throwing stars rather than blades/darts are not lethal weapons, lacking the ability to penetrate things like bone (the skull).

 

(Edit: Now if you just want to argue Rule of Cool, throwing stars are nicer for the AT than bow and arrow? That's fine. Claiming bow and arrows for ninjas makes no sense though? It makes more sense than Rule of Cool throwing stars, but aren't as theatrically nice.)

 

Edited April 5 by Rudra

[biostem]

32 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Bow and arrow ninjas makes perfect sense since that was one of the weapons used by ninjas according to the tradition and shuriken as in throwing stars rather than blades/darts are not lethal weapons, lacking the ability to penetrate things like bone (the skull).

 

(Edit: Now if you just want to argue Rule of Cool, throwing stars are nicer for the AT than bow and arrow? That's fine. Claiming bow and arrows for ninjas makes no sense though? It makes more sense than Rule of Cool throwing stars, but aren't as theatrically nice.)

Not that I'm against allowing shuriken attacks as an option, but at the same time, the way the Ninja primary is setup implies to me that your character is not, themselves, a ninja, so I can also see why a longer ranged support weapon, like a bow, would be chosen.  Maybe MMs could stand to gain some themed APPs, (like a "Ninja" one with some shuriken and katana attacks, any maybe some kind of defense toggle that also grants stealth, (think Shinobi from Blasters' Ninja Training)...

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Bow and arrow ninjas makes perfect sense since that was one of the weapons used by ninjas according to the tradition and shuriken as in throwing stars rather than blades/darts are not lethal weapons, lacking the ability to penetrate things like bone (the skull).

 

(Edit: Now if you just want to argue Rule of Cool, throwing stars are nicer for the AT than bow and arrow? That's fine. Claiming bow and arrows for ninjas makes no sense though? It makes more sense than Rule of Cool throwing stars, but aren't as theatrically nice.)

 

Don't you make sense at me

[FrozenSolid]

It'd definitely be great customization to be able to select your attack options... But I imagine the code wouldn't make it possible at least in character creation.

One option would be take out the 3 attacks in every one of the MM power sets, and then make them into small Power Pools that only MMs can take, and possibly mutually exclusive with each other.

Though if they went through that, it would be possible to then later on implement new attacks and new henchmen separately.

[Wavicle]

I think the best you're gonna get is taking the Epic attacks instead.

[Rudra]

58 minutes ago, FrozenSolid said:

It'd definitely be great customization to be able to select your attack options... But I imagine the code wouldn't make it possible at least in character creation.

One option would be take out the 3 attacks in every one of the MM power sets, and then make them into small Power Pools that only MMs can take, and possibly mutually exclusive with each other.

Though if they went through that, it would be possible to then later on implement new attacks and new henchmen separately.

That would penalize MMs for power pools. We can only have 4 power pools and 1 ancillary/patron, so MMs that want their own attacks back would have to forego another power pool. (Edit: And if MMs were allowed 5 power pools to compensate? Then MMs could simply skip grabbing their native attacks and just grab 5 regular power pools instead, which goes from penalizing MMs to bolstering them but not their pets.)

 

Edited April 7 by Rudra

[FrozenSolid]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

That would penalize MMs for power pools. We can only have 4 power pools and 1 ancillary/patron, so MMs that want their own attacks back would have to forego another power pool.

Well then the follow up question would be how hard coded the limit of 4 pools is and could it be increased to 5 for MMs?

 

  

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 (Edit: And if MMs were allowed 5 power pools to compensate? Then MMs could simply skip grabbing their native attacks and just grab 5 regular power pools instead, which goes from penalizing MMs to bolstering them but not their pets.)

 

There is that, and there is really no going around that... Except maybe making it worth more than a standard pool. But that might not be entirely the best option, unless MMs desperately need a buff.

Edited April 7 by FrozenSolid

[Rudra]

27 minutes ago, FrozenSolid said:

Well then the follow up question would be how hard coded the limit of 4 pools is and could it be increased to 5 for MMs?

 

  

There is that, and there is really no going around that... Except maybe making it worth more than a standard pool. But that might not be entirely the best option, unless MMs desperately need a buff.

Even if a separate series of pools that aren't classified as power pools but rather as MM pools with only 3 powers each were made available and only available to MMs, that would still leave MMs unable to start with an attack rather than a pet during character creation.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

I think the best you're gonna get is taking the Epic attacks instead.

 

And I came here just to gripe about the weapon redraw animation for MM's Patron Pool Mace Mastery!

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Even if a separate series of pools that aren't classified as power pools but rather as MM pools with only 3 powers each were made available and only available to MMs, that would still leave MMs unable to start with an attack rather than a pet during character creation.

Aside from the fact that it would interact wierdly with Weapon Customization, it could be handwaved by making the attack powers generic, with the specific attack a selectable option in the tailor screen -- so you would, for example, take your MM's first power as their attack, and select 'pulse rifle', 'bow', 'whip', etc. as the visual component of the attack. Perhaps as a separate pseudo-power you get when you select the attack, the only effect of the pseudo-power being to manage the animation for the associated attack. Both of these would be complicated to administer on the back end, and both would necessitate a database change for the character data to accommodate the additional fields, so the impact would be wider than just tweaking the MM class.

[arcane]

I’m a big advocate for “you want the unique look of a certain set, you play that set.”

[TheMoneyMaker]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Even if a separate series of pools that aren't classified as power pools but rather as MM pools with only 3 powers each were made available and only available to MMs, that would still leave MMs unable to start with an attack rather than a pet during character creation.

We do have origin powers, ghost slaying axe, Nemesis staff, and Blackwand available as bonus powers at 1st level. Additionally, for those who can afford such luxuries, there are other powers available at the START vendor for varying amounts of inf, so no one has to be without an attack at 1st level because they chose their pet power instead.

[battlewraith]

On 4/5/2025 at 5:50 PM, TheMoneyMaker said:

Bow and arrow ninjas make no sense at all in a game that has shurikens available.

 

Ninjas make no sense in this game at all. 

First of all, the point of a ninja was to spy, sabotage, or assassinate. So being obviously discernable as a ninja defeats the purpose. The image we have of the ninja in a black uniform likely never existed historically and was developed from theatrical performers (ie stage hands) that were visible in puppet shows, kabuki, etc. that covered up in black outfits to indicate that they were not part of the story. Occasionally, these guys would break the fourth wall and actually interact with the characters, hence the "ninja."

 

Secondly, spies would've used gimpy weapons like shuriken because they could be concealed. If you're going to be carting around a bow--don't bother with the ninja crap. Also, spies from that era would've used the best weapons they had available to them. In the modern superhero era that means guns at least. Malta are better ninjas than ninjas.

 

Regarding the rule of cool--ninjas were cool in the 80s. Even then, at the height of their popularity, they couldn't defeat Chuck Norris let alone a goliath war walker.

 

I remember one ninja story from my time in Japan. Some clan was hired to assassinate a lord in his castle. They got a small fellow to crawl down into a toilet and wait until said lord came in to take a dump. The the assassin shoved a makeshift spear up his bum. Sounds like a stalker to me!

[Rudra]

22 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

We do have origin powers, ghost slaying axe, Nemesis staff, and Blackwand available as bonus powers at 1st level. Additionally, for those who can afford such luxuries, there are other powers available at the START vendor for varying amounts of inf, so no one has to be without an attack at 1st level because they chose their pet power instead.

You can't choose any of those powers in character creation. My point is that every AT gets their choice of T1 or T2 primary power set when made. The proposal to move MM inherent attacks to a power pool, or even a MM attack pool, would leave MMs with no choice other than to take their T1 pet during creation. (And for anyone choosing to play a petless MM for any reason, preclude them from doing so.) (Edit: Especially if done as a power pool since those can't be accessed until level 4.)

 

As for power availability after making the character like with START powers? If playing through the tutorial for any reason, the START vendor isn't available in the Galaxy City tutorial until just before you enter the final area to fight the giant Shivan. So again, no MM native attacks for a while and petless MMs are stuck with a pet they wanted to avoid.

 

Again, please bear in mind that I am not against MMs getting their choice of weapons. However, the proposal to move them to pools has more problems than the poster seems to realize.

 

Edited April 7 by Rudra

[FrozenSolid]

Oh I acknowledge there's problems with it.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, just that it IS a solution.

And really, the problem with potential lack of attacks is only for levels 1 to 4, at which point you would get access to the pools and then it could proceed relatively normally.

 

The only other option I can think of would be try to make MMs pick 3 power set... Primary for their type of Henchmen, Secondary for the Support powers and a Tertiary one for their choice of weapon (or magic/energy attack).

But I would assume that's something the game wouldn't actually support as that would involve changing the character creation, also would start the MM off with 3 powers instead of 2, which would be fixed by removing power selection from one of the levels.

[Wavicle]

8 hours ago, tidge said:

 

And I came here just to gripe about the weapon redraw animation for MM's Patron Pool Mace Mastery!

 

Huh? Redraw was eliminated...what do you mean?

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

Huh? Redraw was eliminated...what do you mean?

 

My Robotics MM still does a redraw when switching between the Pulse Rifle and the Mace. Am I supposed to visit the tailor to get rid of the redraw?

[Wavicle]

2 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

My Robotics MM still does a redraw when switching between the Pulse Rifle and the Mace. Am I supposed to visit the tailor to get rid of the redraw?

 

It basically should only be doing it the first time on a map. After that the weapon should just appear in your hand. If that's not what's happening it could be a bug. You should not have to do anything at the tailor.

Edited April 7 by Wavicle

[tidge]

Sometimes, but not always./ Perhaps a status affect application is forcing redraws..

[Wavicle]

That also sounds like a weird bug...I dunno.