Super reflexes suggestion/question

[Falcon Striker]

I was wondering why sentinels only get access to master brawler and enduring for SR, but the other archetypes that have access to SR don't have those?  Can we maybe get those for the other SR archetypes in the future?  Especially enduring, it would be a major game changer with my Martial arts/SR scrapper build

Edited April 16 by Falcon Striker

[Rudra]

Sentinels never made it to the game back on Live. They were undergoing development. Sentinels use a different version of SR than the other archetypes. Master Brawler and Enduring were added. With Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler being mutually exclusive. As for Enduring, using Scrappers as a reference, Scrapper SR has Lucky which grants the AT extra defense against AoEs versus the psionic defense of Enduring, with Enduring adding in +recovery as compensation. Why? I don't know, but best guess is the devs decided that Enduring's effects were more balanced for Sentinels.

 

(Edit: So why don't the non-Sentinel versions of Super Reflexes have Master Brawler and Enduring? Because Sentinels got a new version that was being tested when the game got shut down.)

 

Edited April 16 by Rudra

[arcane]

I think this critique only applies to Tanker SR (maybe Brutes I’ve never tried?), so perhaps this could be viable to test out on Scrapper/Stalker. But basically my only problem here is that there is already a prevalent narrative around here that SR Tankers are basically immortal without giving them an absorb shield. So I can’t see Tankers specifically getting the SR absorb.

 

I’m down to see the recovery buff tho.

Edited April 16 by arcane

[Psyonico]

19 hours ago, arcane said:

I think this critique only applies to Tanker SR (maybe Brutes I’ve never tried?), so perhaps this could be viable to test out on Scrapper/Stalker. But basically my only problem here is that there is already a prevalent narrative around here that SR Tankers are basically immortal without giving them an absorb shield. So I can’t see Tankers specifically getting the SR absorb.

 

I’m down to see the recovery buff tho.

 

Oh man, can you imagine an SR tank that *doesn't* have a clicky anti-mez AND it has a + Absorb power?

[TheMoneyMaker]

Sentinels have a number of variations from the standard powersets, such as regen being different, but also pretty much all their blast sets have noteworthy alterations as well. This is because despite the typical assumption that they are basically scrappers with ranged attacks and no crit, sentinels are a different AT and meant to be played differently than tough blasters/reachy scrappers. Making some changes to how their powers work achieves this.

[Falcon Striker]

On 4/15/2025 at 8:45 PM, Rudra said:

Sentinels never made it to the game back on Live. They were undergoing development. Sentinels use a different version of SR than the other archetypes. Master Brawler and Enduring were added. With Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler being mutually exclusive. As for Enduring, using Scrappers as a reference, Scrapper SR has Lucky which grants the AT extra defense against AoEs versus the psionic defense of Enduring, with Enduring adding in +recovery as compensation. Why? I don't know, but best guess is the devs decided that Enduring's effects were more balanced for Sentinels.

 

(Edit: So why don't the non-Sentinel versions of Super Reflexes have Master Brawler and Enduring? Because Sentinels got a new version that was being tested when the game got shut down.)

 

That makes sense, but the game's been back since 2019, so the only reason I can think of them not updating SR for other archetypes is MAYBE balance.  I'm still jealous of enduring, though, I min max inherent Fitness and Energy mastery to make up for it, and I STILL blow through all my energy fast if I'm not careful.  What I would give to have access to that power.

On 4/15/2025 at 9:36 PM, arcane said:

I think this critique only applies to Tanker SR (maybe Brutes I’ve never tried?), so perhaps this could be viable to test out on Scrapper/Stalker. But basically my only problem here is that there is already a prevalent narrative around here that SR Tankers are basically immortal without giving them an absorb shield. So I can’t see Tankers specifically getting the SR absorb.

 

I’m down to see the recovery buff tho.

I MOSTLY want Enduring, I will forgoe the other stuff sentinels get for it.  Like I said above, I try to minmax physical perfection and Inherent Fitness, but I find I have to manage my energy far more with my scrapper than ANY other class.  And it's probably like that by design, but I'd at least like to know is it like that by design, or an oversight? 

On 4/16/2025 at 5:20 PM, Psyonico said:

 

Oh man, can you imagine an SR tank that *doesn't* have a clicky anti-mez AND it has a + Absorb power?

I mostly am after enduring, I get not granting the other things, just give me that tasty tasty enduring.

On 4/17/2025 at 5:47 PM, TheMoneyMaker said:

Sentinels have a number of variations from the standard powersets, such as regen being different, but also pretty much all their blast sets have noteworthy alterations as well. This is because despite the typical assumption that they are basically scrappers with ranged attacks and no crit, sentinels are a different AT and meant to be played differently than tough blasters/reachy scrappers. Making some changes to how their powers work achieves this.

Okay I suppose that makes sense, but I'd also argue they've changed a lot since their original design already, and their passives were designed around that original design intent.  I think at the very least you could give other SR users enduring at the very least, I can see leaving the other new stuff out of their reach.  But I just want to be able to keep up with my team without having to pace myself between attacks by 2-3 seconds each attack, or relegating myself to just using my first two abilities as a martial arts/SR scrapper.  Either way, love the combo, but I'd feel like a kid on Christmas morning if I could get enduring. (refer to above replies how I min max every energy recovery power I have access to attempt to circumvent my weakness of having stamina the likes of a mono sufferer)

[Rudra]

How much endurance reduction are you building into your attacks? It's the attacks that eat up the endurance. If your Scrapper is running everything from SR without any enhancements, it only eats up 0.78 endurance per second. Your base recovery is 2.08 endurance per second without any enhancements. And if you are focused on just boosting your recovery, your character is going to be starved for endurance.

 

(Edit: And glancing over Scrapper endurance costs, they don't seem any higher than Brutes or Tankers.)

 

Edited April 19 by Rudra

[Psyonico]

Also, I don’t really want to lose the extra AoE defense that non-sentinels get.

[arcane]

26 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Also, I don’t really want to lose the extra AoE defense that non-sentinels get.

Sentinels don’t get less AoE defense. The amount of defense from Lucky was just added to Evasion as a free bonus for Sentinels.

[Captain Fabulous]

7 hours ago, Falcon Striker said:

I'm still jealous of enduring, though, I min max inherent Fitness and Energy mastery to make up for it, and I STILL blow through all my energy fast if I'm not careful.  What I would give to have access to that power.

Unfortunately most ATs have endurance issues to one degree or another even with an end reducer in every power. IOs that add +end and +recovery can help, as can Recovery Serum from the START vendor.

[FupDup]

Most Sentinel armors got endurance/recovery sustain powers added to sets that lacked them (SR, Dark, Invuln), presumably because the AT is meant to be able to function independently as opposed to fitting into a specialized team role. 

 

 

Whatever the reason may be, I support Sents having exclusive things like this because of two reasons:

 

1. The AT has weak stats, so having strong power selection can help them overcome that badness (giving these toys to everyone makes the AT even less appealing than it already is). Scrappers don't need it because they don't suck. 

 

2. It helps add more variety and distinction, which I think is important considering that there's already 4 armored melee ATs with access to the same armor powersets. 

Edited April 19 by FupDup

[Thraxen]

Sentinels can’t get to 95% ddr either. I prefer regular version of sr myself. 

[Falcon Striker]

15 hours ago, Rudra said:

How much endurance reduction are you building into your attacks? It's the attacks that eat up the endurance. If your Scrapper is running everything from SR without any enhancements, it only eats up 0.78 endurance per second. Your base recovery is 2.08 endurance per second without any enhancements. And if you are focused on just boosting your recovery, your character is going to be starved for endurance.

 

(Edit: And glancing over Scrapper endurance costs, they don't seem any higher than Brutes or Tankers.)

 

None, do people even do that?  Seems sub optimal to do anything to your primary attacks other than accuracy and damage.  Maybe I could test it out and see if having huge dip in my DPS is worth it?  But even then I don't see why you'd ever want to sacrifice more than 1 slot you'd otherwise dedicate to damage or accuracy.  ESPECIALLY considering merit reward enhancements and other end game enhancements, not to mention missing out on set bonuses.  It makes more sense to me any way, to put endurance reduction costs on toggles, which I do, all my defensive toggles are 3 defense and 3 end red, on top of all the effort I put into end recovery passives and min maxing those as well. 

 

I tried plugging it into MIDS, I guess I could sacrifice 1 accuracy enhancement, this is the result I got in the image below.  What ratio would you use?  1 seems to reduce the cost by 42.4% according to mids.  Maybe it's worth it, but it does come at the cost of about 30% of my bonus accuracy I was having before.  So say I miss, it costs me more energy to attempt the attack twice, than it does to do it once successfully at base cost.

7 hours ago, FupDup said:

Most Sentinel armors got endurance/recovery sustain powers added to sets that lacked them (SR, Dark, Invuln), presumably because the AT is meant to be able to function independently as opposed to fitting into a specialized team role. 

 

 

Whatever the reason may be, I support Sents having exclusive things like this because of two reasons:

 

1. The AT has weak stats, so having strong power selection can help them overcome that badness (giving these toys to everyone makes the AT even less appealing than it already is). Scrappers don't need it because they don't suck. 

 

2. It helps add more variety and distinction, which I think is important considering that there's already 4 armored melee ATs with access to the same armor powersets. 

Or maybe make sentinels not suck?  Also if we're talking about variety, I don't see how we're achieving that if 1 archetype gets unique options, and others archetypes with the same power do not.  If that's the goal, wouldn't it actually more sense to make each archetype with the same power have unique options for every class?  Not like every option, but like 1 or 2 that set their version of a power apart from other archetypes.  There's already examples of this, why not do it more across the board?  Just sounds to me Sentinels need a buff, they felt fine to me I'm using a dual pistol SR sentinel.  I still need to get one to max level, though.

 

I get what you're saying, though.  I'm just not so sure it's accomplishing what you're saying without also giving other classes unique flare to shared powers, so I'm meeting you half way.  I agree but also disagree so I altered my approach.

7 hours ago, Thraxen said:

Sentinels can’t get to 95% ddr either. I prefer regular version of sr myself. 

Fair enough

Edited April 20 by Falcon Striker
grammar mistakes

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, Falcon Striker said:

16 hours ago, Rudra said:

How much endurance reduction are you building into your attacks? It's the attacks that eat up the endurance. If your Scrapper is running everything from SR without any enhancements, it only eats up 0.78 endurance per second. Your base recovery is 2.08 endurance per second without any enhancements. And if you are focused on just boosting your recovery, your character is going to be starved for endurance.

 

(Edit: And glancing over Scrapper endurance costs, they don't seem any higher than Brutes or Tankers.)

 

None, do people even do that?  Seems sub optimal to do anything to your primary attacks other than accuracy and damage.  Maybe I could test it out and see if having huge dip in my DPS is worth it?  But even then I don't see why you'd ever want to sacrifice more than 1 slot you'd otherwise dedicate to damage or accuracy.  ESPECIALLY considering merit reward enhancements and other end game enhancements, not to mention missing out on set bonuses.  It makes more sense to me any way, to put endurance reduction costs on toggles, which I do, all my defensive toggles are 3 defense and 3 end red, on top of all the effort I put into end recovery passives and min maxing those as well. 

Uhm... yes. People slot endurance reduction in their powers. They slot them in their toggles. They slot them in their attacks. They also slot enhancement sets that have global endurance reduction. If you aren't slotting endurance reductions like how you said you aren't, then that is why you are having problems with your endurance. And Enduring isn't going to save you from that.

[Falcon Striker]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Uhm... yes. People slot endurance reduction in their powers. They slot them in their toggles. They slot them in their attacks. They also slot enhancement sets that have global endurance reduction. If you aren't slotting endurance reductions like how you said you aren't, then that is why you are having problems with your endurance. And Enduring isn't going to save you from that.

Okay so what do they forego, then?  Accuracy?  DPS?

[Psyonico]

31 minutes ago, Falcon Striker said:

Okay so what do they forego, then?  Accuracy?  DPS?

If you’re slotting sets, you can easily get ED capped Damage with good Accuracy, endurance redux and recharge at the same time, and that’s before set bonuses.

 

 Standard SO slotting for attacks is usually 1-2 accuracy, 1 end redux, 3 damage, 0-1 recharge.

 

 The cap for hitting is 95% chance.  Most people build for 95% against +3 enemies (that’s a base to-hit chance of 48%) but if you’re only going to be fighting even-cons then 1 accuracy will get you over 95% chance for anything that doesn’t have additional defense buffs (which is most critters)

[Rudra]

52 minutes ago, Falcon Striker said:

Okay so what do they forego, then?  Accuracy?  DPS?

If you aren't using sets, then it depends on the person. However, @Psyonico gave the standard.

[Falcon Striker]

3 hours ago, Psyonico said:

If you’re slotting sets, you can easily get ED capped Damage with good Accuracy, endurance redux and recharge at the same time, and that’s before set bonuses.

 

 Standard SO slotting for attacks is usually 1-2 accuracy, 1 end redux, 3 damage, 0-1 recharge.

 

 The cap for hitting is 95% chance.  Most people build for 95% against +3 enemies (that’s a base to-hit chance of 48%) but if you’re only going to be fighting even-cons then 1 accuracy will get you over 95% chance for anything that doesn’t have additional defense buffs (which is most critters)

I'll give that a try

[Starhammer]

I never even care about the absorb aspect of Sentinel SR, I'm just so stoked to have my status protection attached to my toggles. That would please me greatly with SR/Ninja/Shield in other ATs.

[MTeague]

7 hours ago, Starhammer said:

I never even care about the absorb aspect of Sentinel SR, I'm just so stoked to have my status protection attached to my toggles. That would please me greatly with SR/Ninja/Shield in other ATs.

I mean, I get that, but Practiced Brawler, can stack. Sure it will interrupt you every so often when it's on autofire, but I believe you net greater status protection that you would have with a toggle.  Plus, if you're ever detoggled, well, you don't lose it at all, because it's not a toggle.

[Psyonico]

And Shield’s mez protection includes DDR, so stacking it has an even greater benefit than if it were a toggle.

[biostem]

On 4/19/2025 at 10:15 PM, Psyonico said:

Standard SO slotting for attacks is usually 1-2 accuracy, 1 end redux, 3 damage, 0-1 recharge.

This is pretty much what I go with, for "standard slotting" as well;  2 Acc, 3 Dmg, 1 end redux, recharge, or possibly something else, as needed and depending upon what other power sets that character has or plans or utilizing...

[Midnight Mystique]

Here's what I do to maximize my dam/rech/end reduction while still having good to hit values: Starting out at L1 I stop by the START vendor and pick up the 3 best buffs in the game:  Offense Amplifier (+15% rech, +15% dam, +10% to hit), Defense Amplifier (7.5% res to all damage, 5% def to all, 4 points status prot to ALL), and Survival Amplifier (+ 15% hp, +20% recovery, +40% regen). At level 1 they cost 1k per hour for up to 8 hours (play time, not real time) each. 24k inf total. I find that even if you never refresh the buffs at higher levels you can get to L30 easily on 8 hours of play. 

 

Then I run at least one Death From Below and select the hydra Accuracy Enhancer (which actually gives you 12% to hit rather than ACC, a much better deal). At that point my base to hit is 92%, practically at the cap for even level mobs. Finally, when I hit level 10-12 i try to pick up a toggle that takes defense sets, combat jumping is your best bet but if you are  on a SR toon agile is an even better choice as its an auto power. Stick a Kismet +to hit proc in that power and now your base to hit is 98%.  This means until you hit L22 and lose the DFB buff you only need to slot damage, recharge and end reduction in most attacks. At L22+ you can pick up a cheap Acc/dam set piece (brusing blow or smashing haymaker for melee, volley fire/maelstrom's fury for ranged, and so on) and replace on off your damage SO's with that.

 

Then at L27 you slot L30 io sets, which is when they get really good. Melee has it easy, a 5 piece crushing impact set (acc/dam/rech,acc/dam/end, dam/end, dam/rech, dam/rech/end) will give you 35% ACC, 92% DAM, and 56% end reduction and recharge, plus you get some nice set bonuses. Cost on the AH, somewhere between 2.5-5 million inf total.  That doesn't sound cheap, but it really is, at least compared to other IO's. If you buy attuned IO's then they level up with you and you will never need to replace them. Multi-strike and cleaving blow sets are also fairly cheap for melee AOE sets and give decent enhancement bonuses. Note that for me, fairly cheap means 500k-1million inf a piece. If you are willing to buy the recipes and craft them, you might save some that way, hard to say, then you have to use enhancement catalysts if you want them attuned.

 

For ranged powers if all you want is cheap enhancement values go with thunderstrike - a 5 piece set (everything but the acc/dam io) gives you the same enhancement as crushing impact, although the set bonuses are not as exciting as crushing impact.

 

I will say that it took me a while to build up the cash to do this on a regular basis. I am a severe alt'er (I have, like, 110-120 toons on everlasting right now) and I grind reward merits and use those to buy things I can sell on the AH for inf, using that to fund my new chars. A couple hami raids a day gets you 240 or so merits (only 200 if you are doing them on the same char). Keep in mind that while 500k feels like a lot for a single enhancement you don't have to replace them every 5 levels like you do with SO's - if you buy attuned enhancements off the market then they even level up with you, so that crushing impact set that gave you 35%/92%/56%/56% acc/dam/end/recharge at L30 will give you 42%/98%/68%/68% at level 50.