Super reflexes suggestion/question

[Falcon Striker]

I was wondering why sentinels only get access to master brawler and enduring for SR, but the other archetypes that have access to SR don't have those?  Can we maybe get those for the other SR archetypes in the future?  Especially enduring, it would be a major game changer with my Martial arts/SR scrapper build

Edited April 16 by Falcon Striker

[Rudra]

Sentinels never made it to the game back on Live. They were undergoing development. Sentinels use a different version of SR than the other archetypes. Master Brawler and Enduring were added. With Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler being mutually exclusive. As for Enduring, using Scrappers as a reference, Scrapper SR has Lucky which grants the AT extra defense against AoEs versus the psionic defense of Enduring, with Enduring adding in +recovery as compensation. Why? I don't know, but best guess is the devs decided that Enduring's effects were more balanced for Sentinels.

 

(Edit: So why don't the non-Sentinel versions of Super Reflexes have Master Brawler and Enduring? Because Sentinels got a new version that was being tested when the game got shut down.)

 

Edited April 16 by Rudra

[arcane]

I think this critique only applies to Tanker SR (maybe Brutes I’ve never tried?), so perhaps this could be viable to test out on Scrapper/Stalker. But basically my only problem here is that there is already a prevalent narrative around here that SR Tankers are basically immortal without giving them an absorb shield. So I can’t see Tankers specifically getting the SR absorb.

 

I’m down to see the recovery buff tho.

Edited April 16 by arcane

[Psyonico]

19 hours ago, arcane said:

I think this critique only applies to Tanker SR (maybe Brutes I’ve never tried?), so perhaps this could be viable to test out on Scrapper/Stalker. But basically my only problem here is that there is already a prevalent narrative around here that SR Tankers are basically immortal without giving them an absorb shield. So I can’t see Tankers specifically getting the SR absorb.

 

I’m down to see the recovery buff tho.

 

Oh man, can you imagine an SR tank that *doesn't* have a clicky anti-mez AND it has a + Absorb power?

[TheMoneyMaker]

Sentinels have a number of variations from the standard powersets, such as regen being different, but also pretty much all their blast sets have noteworthy alterations as well. This is because despite the typical assumption that they are basically scrappers with ranged attacks and no crit, sentinels are a different AT and meant to be played differently than tough blasters/reachy scrappers. Making some changes to how their powers work achieves this.

[Falcon Striker]

On 4/15/2025 at 8:45 PM, Rudra said:

Sentinels never made it to the game back on Live. They were undergoing development. Sentinels use a different version of SR than the other archetypes. Master Brawler and Enduring were added. With Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler being mutually exclusive. As for Enduring, using Scrappers as a reference, Scrapper SR has Lucky which grants the AT extra defense against AoEs versus the psionic defense of Enduring, with Enduring adding in +recovery as compensation. Why? I don't know, but best guess is the devs decided that Enduring's effects were more balanced for Sentinels.

 

(Edit: So why don't the non-Sentinel versions of Super Reflexes have Master Brawler and Enduring? Because Sentinels got a new version that was being tested when the game got shut down.)

 

That makes sense, but the game's been back since 2019, so the only reason I can think of them not updating SR for other archetypes is MAYBE balance.  I'm still jealous of enduring, though, I min max inherent Fitness and Energy mastery to make up for it, and I STILL blow through all my energy fast if I'm not careful.  What I would give to have access to that power.

On 4/15/2025 at 9:36 PM, arcane said:

I think this critique only applies to Tanker SR (maybe Brutes I’ve never tried?), so perhaps this could be viable to test out on Scrapper/Stalker. But basically my only problem here is that there is already a prevalent narrative around here that SR Tankers are basically immortal without giving them an absorb shield. So I can’t see Tankers specifically getting the SR absorb.

 

I’m down to see the recovery buff tho.

I MOSTLY want Enduring, I will forgoe the other stuff sentinels get for it.  Like I said above, I try to minmax physical perfection and Inherent Fitness, but I find I have to manage my energy far more with my scrapper than ANY other class.  And it's probably like that by design, but I'd at least like to know is it like that by design, or an oversight? 

On 4/16/2025 at 5:20 PM, Psyonico said:

 

Oh man, can you imagine an SR tank that *doesn't* have a clicky anti-mez AND it has a + Absorb power?

I mostly am after enduring, I get not granting the other things, just give me that tasty tasty enduring.

On 4/17/2025 at 5:47 PM, TheMoneyMaker said:

Sentinels have a number of variations from the standard powersets, such as regen being different, but also pretty much all their blast sets have noteworthy alterations as well. This is because despite the typical assumption that they are basically scrappers with ranged attacks and no crit, sentinels are a different AT and meant to be played differently than tough blasters/reachy scrappers. Making some changes to how their powers work achieves this.

Okay I suppose that makes sense, but I'd also argue they've changed a lot since their original design already, and their passives were designed around that original design intent.  I think at the very least you could give other SR users enduring at the very least, I can see leaving the other new stuff out of their reach.  But I just want to be able to keep up with my team without having to pace myself between attacks by 2-3 seconds each attack, or relegating myself to just using my first two abilities as a martial arts/SR scrapper.  Either way, love the combo, but I'd feel like a kid on Christmas morning if I could get enduring. (refer to above replies how I min max every energy recovery power I have access to attempt to circumvent my weakness of having stamina the likes of a mono sufferer)

[Rudra]

How much endurance reduction are you building into your attacks? It's the attacks that eat up the endurance. If your Scrapper is running everything from SR without any enhancements, it only eats up 0.78 endurance per second. Your base recovery is 2.08 endurance per second without any enhancements. And if you are focused on just boosting your recovery, your character is going to be starved for endurance.

 

(Edit: And glancing over Scrapper endurance costs, they don't seem any higher than Brutes or Tankers.)

 

Edited Saturday at 09:35 AM by Rudra

[Psyonico]

Also, I don’t really want to lose the extra AoE defense that non-sentinels get.

[arcane]

26 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

Also, I don’t really want to lose the extra AoE defense that non-sentinels get.

Sentinels don’t get less AoE defense. The amount of defense from Lucky was just added to Evasion as a free bonus for Sentinels.

[Captain Fabulous]

7 hours ago, Falcon Striker said:

I'm still jealous of enduring, though, I min max inherent Fitness and Energy mastery to make up for it, and I STILL blow through all my energy fast if I'm not careful.  What I would give to have access to that power.

Unfortunately most ATs have endurance issues to one degree or another even with an end reducer in every power. IOs that add +end and +recovery can help, as can Recovery Serum from the START vendor.

[FupDup]

Most Sentinel armors got endurance/recovery sustain powers added to sets that lacked them (SR, Dark, Invuln), presumably because the AT is meant to be able to function independently as opposed to fitting into a specialized team role. 

 

 

Whatever the reason may be, I support Sents having exclusive things like this because of two reasons:

 

1. The AT has weak stats, so having strong power selection can help them overcome that badness (giving these toys to everyone makes the AT even less appealing than it already is). Scrappers don't need it because they don't suck. 

 

2. It helps add more variety and distinction, which I think is important considering that there's already 4 armored melee ATs with access to the same armor powersets. 

Edited Saturday at 05:34 PM by FupDup

[Thraxen]

Sentinels can’t get to 95% ddr either. I prefer regular version of sr myself. 

[Falcon Striker]

15 hours ago, Rudra said:

How much endurance reduction are you building into your attacks? It's the attacks that eat up the endurance. If your Scrapper is running everything from SR without any enhancements, it only eats up 0.78 endurance per second. Your base recovery is 2.08 endurance per second without any enhancements. And if you are focused on just boosting your recovery, your character is going to be starved for endurance.

 

(Edit: And glancing over Scrapper endurance costs, they don't seem any higher than Brutes or Tankers.)

 

None, do people even do that?  Seems sub optimal to do anything to your primary attacks other than accuracy and damage.  Maybe I could test it out and see if having huge dip in my DPS is worth it?  But even then I don't see why you'd ever want to sacrifice more than 1 slot you'd otherwise dedicate to damage or accuracy.  ESPECIALLY considering merit reward enhancements and other end game enhancements, not to mention missing out on set bonuses.  It makes more sense to me any way, to put endurance reduction costs on toggles, which I do, all my defensive toggles are 3 defense and 3 end red, on top of all the effort I put into end recovery passives and min maxing those as well. 

 

I tried plugging it into MIDS, I guess I could sacrifice 1 accuracy enhancement, this is the result I got in the image below.  What ratio would you use?  1 seems to reduce the cost by 42.4% according to mids.  Maybe it's worth it, but it does come at the cost of about 30% of my bonus accuracy I was having before.  So say I miss, it costs me more energy to attempt the attack twice, than it does to do it once successfully at base cost.

7 hours ago, FupDup said:

Most Sentinel armors got endurance/recovery sustain powers added to sets that lacked them (SR, Dark, Invuln), presumably because the AT is meant to be able to function independently as opposed to fitting into a specialized team role. 

 

 

Whatever the reason may be, I support Sents having exclusive things like this because of two reasons:

 

1. The AT has weak stats, so having strong power selection can help them overcome that badness (giving these toys to everyone makes the AT even less appealing than it already is). Scrappers don't need it because they don't suck. 

 

2. It helps add more variety and distinction, which I think is important considering that there's already 4 armored melee ATs with access to the same armor powersets. 

Or maybe make sentinels not suck?  Also if we're talking about variety, I don't see how we're achieving that if 1 archetype gets unique options, and others archetypes with the same power do not.  If that's the goal, wouldn't it actually more sense to make each archetype with the same power have unique options for every class?  Not like every option, but like 1 or 2 that set their version of a power apart from other archetypes.  There's already examples of this, why not do it more across the board?  Just sounds to me Sentinels need a buff, they felt fine to me I'm using a dual pistol SR sentinel.  I still need to get one to max level, though.

 

I get what you're saying, though.  I'm just not so sure it's accomplishing what you're saying without also giving other classes unique flare to shared powers, so I'm meeting you half way.  I agree but also disagree so I altered my approach.

7 hours ago, Thraxen said:

Sentinels can’t get to 95% ddr either. I prefer regular version of sr myself. 

Fair enough

Edited Sunday at 12:49 AM by Falcon Striker
grammar mistakes

[Rudra]

41 minutes ago, Falcon Striker said:

16 hours ago, Rudra said:

How much endurance reduction are you building into your attacks? It's the attacks that eat up the endurance. If your Scrapper is running everything from SR without any enhancements, it only eats up 0.78 endurance per second. Your base recovery is 2.08 endurance per second without any enhancements. And if you are focused on just boosting your recovery, your character is going to be starved for endurance.

 

(Edit: And glancing over Scrapper endurance costs, they don't seem any higher than Brutes or Tankers.)

 

None, do people even do that?  Seems sub optimal to do anything to your primary attacks other than accuracy and damage.  Maybe I could test it out and see if having huge dip in my DPS is worth it?  But even then I don't see why you'd ever want to sacrifice more than 1 slot you'd otherwise dedicate to damage or accuracy.  ESPECIALLY considering merit reward enhancements and other end game enhancements, not to mention missing out on set bonuses.  It makes more sense to me any way, to put endurance reduction costs on toggles, which I do, all my defensive toggles are 3 defense and 3 end red, on top of all the effort I put into end recovery passives and min maxing those as well. 

Uhm... yes. People slot endurance reduction in their powers. They slot them in their toggles. They slot them in their attacks. They also slot enhancement sets that have global endurance reduction. If you aren't slotting endurance reductions like how you said you aren't, then that is why you are having problems with your endurance. And Enduring isn't going to save you from that.

[Falcon Striker]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Uhm... yes. People slot endurance reduction in their powers. They slot them in their toggles. They slot them in their attacks. They also slot enhancement sets that have global endurance reduction. If you aren't slotting endurance reductions like how you said you aren't, then that is why you are having problems with your endurance. And Enduring isn't going to save you from that.

Okay so what do they forego, then?  Accuracy?  DPS?

[Psyonico]

31 minutes ago, Falcon Striker said:

Okay so what do they forego, then?  Accuracy?  DPS?

If you’re slotting sets, you can easily get ED capped Damage with good Accuracy, endurance redux and recharge at the same time, and that’s before set bonuses.

 

 Standard SO slotting for attacks is usually 1-2 accuracy, 1 end redux, 3 damage, 0-1 recharge.

 

 The cap for hitting is 95% chance.  Most people build for 95% against +3 enemies (that’s a base to-hit chance of 48%) but if you’re only going to be fighting even-cons then 1 accuracy will get you over 95% chance for anything that doesn’t have additional defense buffs (which is most critters)

[Rudra]

52 minutes ago, Falcon Striker said:

Okay so what do they forego, then?  Accuracy?  DPS?

If you aren't using sets, then it depends on the person. However, @Psyonico gave the standard.

[Falcon Striker]

3 hours ago, Psyonico said:

If you’re slotting sets, you can easily get ED capped Damage with good Accuracy, endurance redux and recharge at the same time, and that’s before set bonuses.

 

 Standard SO slotting for attacks is usually 1-2 accuracy, 1 end redux, 3 damage, 0-1 recharge.

 

 The cap for hitting is 95% chance.  Most people build for 95% against +3 enemies (that’s a base to-hit chance of 48%) but if you’re only going to be fighting even-cons then 1 accuracy will get you over 95% chance for anything that doesn’t have additional defense buffs (which is most critters)

I'll give that a try