Going Gold: Best Lowbie Stalker

[JusticeBowler]

I'm going to make a Praetorian and I'm determined to play through all the low end content legit. I want to poke a hole and suck everything worthwhile out of that expansion in one probably very slow run through. Since so few people play Gold side, I decided that I've got to build for low end solo and I can't think of a better way to do that than to finally scratch my Stalker itch.

 

To that end I have a very different question. Since I'm not leveling faster than a ferret on cocaine Blue side ... what are the best lowbie power sets primary/secondary for stalkers. I want to get as much as I can out of this on day one. This character might never see level 50 and certainly not any enhancement sets.

 

Secondaries first:

 

At first, I thought Super Reflexes is the best bang for the buck because positional defense offers the strongest play against even a smidge of the secondary effects you run into at low levels. If they can't hit me they can't -tohit me. This is nice because status effect protection often comes late (so to speak) even in SR PB comes at level 16 over 75% into the content I'm playing for. It is sad that I'll never see Quickness though. And there's no AoE defense since Evasion is late.

 

Ninjitsu looks a little more intriguing (it was always the set that made me say, "why didn't you just take SR?") it is defense and fills the AoE hole and add caltrops which I think is one of the most underrated powers in CoH especially soloing (unfortunately the DEVs know this which is why the recharge sucks). My only question is will the DoT mess me up for hides and such.

 

Energy Aura is all DEF at the low levels and actually gives you full status protection at 10. The numbers are better than Ninjitsu but they are types instead of positional.

 

Then there is shield... which feels so "not stalker." But covering all my positional DEFs in two powers and filling out general resists with "free" True Grit... in terms of damage mitigation this looks like the king at lvl 10. It does restrict which powers I can take as primary and it also restricts ... well ... how odd it looks to be punching or kicking people with a shield on your arm. Concept wise, it is simply easier to go with BS. Part of me is really sad I couldn't get Mace and walk around with a bully club thwapping people from Hide.

 

Primaries:

 

At this level damage type is probably irrelevant. He who hits hardest, most, wins. And I can't count on adjusting that much with SOs/IOs whatever because I'll never see them. Primaries have to hit hard and be useful out of the box, but I also have to have a viable attack chain right up front. I'm going to be playing half the content with just the first five powers of the primary.

 

Stalker primaries tend to be identical with one exception. Two single target hits, some form of AoE, AS, Build up, then Placate. Ice reverses Placate and Build up but I can't say whether Placate every 60s or Build up every 90s is better. I think I lean towards Placate since it also has damage mitigation and tactical options build up doesn't.

 

About half of them exchange that AoE for a harder hitter (Energy, Fire, Kinetics, Martial Arts, Psionic). Which becomes a question of style as much as efficiency. If I get a cone, I have to make it count since I can't avoid using it and I need to make the animation time and end cost work almost every time. Now, that's a lot of tactical foot shuffling to position mobs and sometimes switching targets to keep someone alive expecting to kill them off as a sort of by-product of hitting someone else as the main target. This is interesting and compelling combat play, but it can also make things a lot more work. Really not sure on this one.

 

Then there is the DoT question. DoTs potentially waste a lot of End (and animation time for another attack) especially at low levels when you can't just overwhelm everything with force. You are constantly wondering whether or not it is better just to "hit the guy again and get it over with" or wait patiently to see if the DoT is "just enough" to kill them.

 

We're dealing with just a few variables. so I decided to make a chart:

 

 

It looks to me like Psi crushes it. But here's a little rub... I've got a Psi scrapper and would rather not double up. So even though at this point Shield/Psi (which was a totally unexpected result from the beginning) is probably the winner, I'm going to have to go with whoever ends up number two on the primary. I wonder how much better is the chance to crit from Storm Kick? It doesn't say.

 

The Stuns on Kinetic are just a bit better and the recharges are the shortest. Smashing Blow is a real disappointment but it's just a part of an overall superior chain so I'm not sure it is worth a complaint. And actually given that the animations are shorter than Psi, it might not be as far behind in DPS as it looks at first glance.

 

Conclusion:

 

It looks to me like Shield/Kinetics is the winner, though I think there's an argument for Ninjitsu for Caltrops sake. At such a low level it might really mean more than Shield's slightly better damage mitigation (though Caltrops offers a form of damage mitigation) and it gives more flexibility for "costume/theme" rather than locking me into the Shield-thang. But I'd love to have someone argue with me about this, or at least point out some things I'm missing.

 

 

 

[Overclock]

A few of thoughts:

 

- While Def based builds do help avoid debuffs and mezzes which other builds fall prey too, there are enough auto-hitting debuffs out there which will completely wreck Def builds, especially at low levels that you may want to be careful relying on Def alone to see you though, unless....

 

- ...Unless you go with Level -1 mobs. Not that they can't debuff and mezz you too, but a 1 person, -1 level spawn, even of the 'roided out Praetorian mobs, shouldn't be a problem.

 

- That in turn might allow you focus on evaluating sets based on how quickly they'll let you take down really weak foes. You're trying to see all of the content after all but that doesn't mean slogged through a mission for an hour because it's a Defeat All will necessarily be fun. 

[KelvinKole]

I think you may be off on the wrong foot by assuming Defense based sets will be better at early levels. This is a good article on how defense works: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Defense_Effectiveness

 

Your chance to get hit is still rather high until you to upwards of 30% defense, and you don't have a large health pool to absorb the hits that so get through. I would advocate for a resistance based, or layered, set for you. Rad armour blooms rather early and will get you a self heal and some extra recovery; more endurance is never a bad thing when you're missing a lot and don't have slots to dedicate to reducing endurance costs. Willpower is good for some resistance and increased hit points, plus a self heal. Ice, of you still want to go defense, will get you a lot of extra health with hoarfrost

 

[JusticeBowler]

- ...Unless you go with Level -1 mobs. Not that they can't debuff and mezz you too, but a 1 person, -1 level spawn, even of the 'roided out Praetorian mobs, shouldn't be a problem.

 

I'm not sure about the difficulty level setting. That's a different sort of thing. Once I've established my strongest play I suppose there comes a point at which I set the difficulty based on how bored I am (either because the content is too easy or because it becomes a slog on Kill Alls).

 

You could argue that since I could always set (like you recommend) to -1 then even the most broken primary and secondary would be fine, even OP, so what's really the point in talking about the best lowbie set at all? Well, I'm glad I asked that rhetorical question:

 

1. No matter how low you set it takes 'X' amount of time to deal with LTs (I've noticed this on my tank running -1s through Ouroborus for badges). MOAR DMG! matters even at -1 when it comes to pacing.

 

2. Bosses (and I assume EBs too) will show up in Praetorian content and famously ambushes that still have to get dealt with over and above 3 mobs = 1 hero balance. If I end up pushing the content up a bit I still have to manage these solo.

 

3. While I didn't directly account for this the feel and flow of an attack chain matters. Now I could build 5 toons on Justin, set them to level 6, and see who has the best feel, but I can't see suddenly preferring Fire Melee's longer animations.

 

4. Part of the point of this is the exercise of it. So many people care about what their toon will look like tricked out with grapes, that I find that sort of thing kind of pointless. I have alt-itis and I want to know what toons are like at playing through low and mid level content AT LEAST as much, if not more than what they'll be like at the end game. All builds are OP at endgame anyway.

 

Another side note, Fire Melee really bites compared to its advantage over on the Blaster side. On the Blaster side, Fire does the most damage period, full stop (if that's all you want). Here in Stalker land is is effectively an underperformer with no secondary effect and at best the same damage as other sets.

 

Another side note, I might impose Hardcore mode on myself as well. If I die I wipe the character and start over from the beginning. Getting to 20 won't take all that long anyway and the idea that I don't get rezzed might make the whole thing more dramatic and remove some of the sloggyiness in places.

[JusticeBowler]

I think you may be off on the wrong foot by assuming Defense based sets will be better at early levels. This is a good article on how defense works: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Defense_Effectiveness

 

Your chance to get hit is still rather high until you to upwards of 30% defense, and you don't have a large health pool to absorb the hits that so get through. I would advocate for a resistance based, or layered, set for you. Rad armour blooms rather early and will get you a self heal and some extra recovery; more endurance is never a bad thing when you're missing a lot and don't have slots to dedicate to reducing endurance costs. Willpower is good for some resistance and increased hit points, plus a self heal. Ice, of you still want to go defense, will get you a lot of extra health with hoarfrost

 

Thanks, I appreciate the input. Let me react to this a bit.

 

I've run defense sets before I know I the drill on them, but my experience is that DEF is stronger than RES at lower levels (though streakier), especially positional DEF. Hoarfrost and Dull pain simply aren't around enough to solve the problems (they end up being a free green inspiration every 6 minutes) and Regen/Rad/Willpower only work if I'm constantly willing to run away to myself a change to recharge. More so, these things work much better for Tanks and Brutes who have much larger health pools to work with to begin with. They are less effective for things more squishy.

 

Keep in mind Shield Defense has RES and bonus hit points (from True Grit) as well.  In fact it has as much smashing/lethal resist as Radiation or Willpower (plus the DEF). In contrast to Dull Pain though, at least Willpower's heal is up often enough to matter.

 

I'm going to have to trust to inspirations for heals, that's guaranteed. I suspect I will take the Inner Inspiration prestige power as well.

 

Now Gamma Boost is a strange animal and I don't know just how much REG I'm getting when my health is high. And if my lowbie attack chain and toggles turn out to be crippling I might which I could have had that. But it is a mystery to me just how much that might help especially when it drops off in favor of REC when you've been hurt.

[Justisaur]

PM is great at low level, nothing resists it.  It's not so good at high level, but that's not what you're doing. 

 

You might also consider staff or dark melee as staff has the +11% def move, and all dark melee does -5% to hit, either should work to give a reasonable amount of defense with a defense set. 

 

I'd have to agree with ice looking best for low level even if the heal+max hp has a long recharge, it's enough to let you fight a bit longer when you run out of inspirations, which can be enough to get through one more mob or so, then rest.  You get your anti-mez toggle at 10.  If you combined with staff you'd have about 24% defense while guarded spin is active, which isn't anything to sneeze at, and you get a bit of cold & fire resist to boot.

 

I can see shield being a possible contender, you get your anti-mez at 16 vs. 10, and I don't really think 10% max hp is going to do much, but with the s/l resists it adds up to a little bit, which is often all you need. Hard choice, but you can't use it with staff.  You could with DM, but I don't think the -to hit will be quite as effective as it's only against the thing you're attacking, which puts ice up higher to me.

 

If not doing more +def through staff or dark melee, I'd be really tempted to go wp for that early and often heal.  I know that often up heal is the only thing I really like from ninjitsu, but it's not until 20 on Nin, whereas you get it at 2 on WP.  However if we compare to ice, you don't get your anti-mez until 16, and you'll probably be taking more status effects before then since you don't have any def, which would make me nervous about taking it.

 

So after all that I'd say staff/ice.

 

[Steampunkette]

Allow me to offer street justice/shield defense.

 

They look great together because StJ is the "Mean" superstrength. With a shield on it looks like you're using it as a weapon on a few attacks. You get the good positional and some resistance and bonus hp, plus two fairly early AoEs, one of which is a rare shape for melee characters!

 

Alternatively,  go Staff/Ninja. The stacking melee defense is great and you'll get +15% damage pretty much perpetually without spending a power pick thanks to the inherent perfect body buff. Caltrops don't break stealth, either, though the redraw can get frustrating.

[FUBARczar]

I'd say at low levels your two choices other than Psi should be Fire or Rad.

 

Those two do the best damage.

 

Defensively, comparing at lvl 16, the most complete sets at that level are (in no particular order):

 

Fire - both shields and healing flames

Regen - Fast heal, dull pain, recon. and integration

Rad - all resist shields, and extra regen/recovery

 

 

[Frostweaver]

I know this is rather late, but my 2 cents.

 

At low levels neither defense nor resist is very important. Praetorian mobs make both into a joke until you are past Praetorian content, anyway.

 

The ONLY mitigation that works consistently is mitigation through defeat. What you need is a primary that can scrap out all the bloody ambushes, allows you to resist mez early, and helps your healing and and endurance enough to deal with the sometimes constant fighting... barely enough defense to allow you to charge an ambush and do a quick crit before you get down to the serious business of attack-chained AS crits.

 

IMO, BS/shield does these better than any other combination. And Parry is not only an attack chain filler, but when you start pushing it it actually cranks all of your defenses up to post-20 levels, breaking the debuffs and making it actually useful. initial Critical (ignoring AS) with heavy hitting attacks is the best in the bunch, and you can scrap it out with ANYTHING Praetoria has to offer with very little trouble. The damage buff from shield makes scrapping even more viable, and if you get the fast opener (which you respec out of when you get parry) you have very few gaps in even your early attack chain... They may have wonky damage types, but very little in early Praetoria resists lethal to a significant degree, and that beautiful Parry can help you ignore them ALL.

[JusticeBowler]

I've been playing a Kinetics/Shield Stalker. This is a side project so I'm not very far along (he's only level 8).

 

I'm convinced that the most important thing about this project is that he's a Stalker! I'm stealthing a lot of content because I just don't need (and in fact don't want) the XP. Still, there have been some very ugly fights. I'm not sure that any combination of sets that folks have recommended would have given me an edge. I like the Praetorian setting, stories, and mobs, but I can't help but feel like this is level 10 or even level 15 content being pushed right out of the gate before I even have an attack chain.

 

I have a feeling that after running a toon through all this, if I want to play Gold Side again I'll do it through Ouroborus, where a well outfitted toon can Exemplar down gracefully through it. That's sad, because it would be a heck of a lot of fun with teams over there, but maybe Gold Side is solo content by nature (every story ends with a solo "morality" mission).

 

Still I'm glad I decided to do it and I look forward to the next time I play. He's fun.

[Khan668]

The question should be what Stalker works best end game. PvP and or PvP. No fun leveling to 50 only to find out your set up doesn't work. I know IO's can fix a lot but still.

[JusticeBowler]

The question should be what Stalker works best end game. PvP and or PvP. No fun leveling to 50 only to find out your set up doesn't work. I know IO's can fix a lot but still.

 

I never care about what a toon is like at the end game. I know that's what the boards are obsessed with, but it has never factored into my enjoyment of the game or the way I play it. This isn't just the alt-itis talking. It is also that builds at 50+ depend far more on your willingness to tweak it to its optimum design at enormous expense. I build toons to explore a character concept or far more likely a "play style" that would make trying to plan for maximum utility either PvE or PvP at the end game impossible to achieve.

 

In this case, I was largely trying to avoid stupid mistakes and see if there was something statistically significant in playability at low levels Gold Side because that's all I'll probably ever play this toon to do. Once it hits lvl 20 it will probably be retired. I won't ever see single origins much less lvl 50, purplesets, and incarnate stuff.

[DocMidknight]

As far as combos go under 20 while not the most powerful due to resistance by certain mobs,  I've become addicted to savage melee on stalkers. It high solid damage, quick recharge  and good single and AOE attacks. Pairing it with something like Bio makes it really solid based on what I'm seeing from mine currently

 

[JStacy337]

My lone-Praetorian this time around was my Kin/Energy Stalker and she was a blast to level with.  Sure, they're typed Defenses, but the dice were always very much in my favor.  Pair that with a set that gives -Dam on every hit and it's a very tanky build/combo.

 

Managed to solo my way through all of Praetoria, First and Night Wards included, with no difficulties