All sapping team idea.

[Doomguide2005]

4 hours ago, Ukase said:

The problem I've encountered is most npcs, even with 0 endurance still attack. And draining end doesn't give you any xp. Drain the Health, then you're doing something. It's probably interesting the first few times, but after that, you realize it's faster and more efficient to just defeat them. 

That's not really the point of sapping (defeating them) any more than running all my scrappers SR powers, they don't directly defeat anything either.  It's to do it more safely,  in a different manner than the normal def/resist/other mitigation.  And it works even solo.  With the changes of 'Shock' and new IO sets I'm pretty sure the general mob population is going to die quite rapidly in a team setting even at +4.  

 

And in other news Dr. Vahz in Posi 2 had 800 endurance ... he also got drained to 10 end shortly before being defeated.  So either there's more to it than a simple floor we can't drop them below (scaling by level maybe) or the Tempest proc my Elec/Fire Blaster was running had an impact.  

[SeraphimKensai]

I play a lot of electric based toons as I've always liked sapping stuff (especially back in the day PvP wise), but this thread got me thinking about an elec sentinel and I ended up rolling one as a new project.

 

So credit where it's due @mistagoat o7.

[biostem]

On 5/4/2025 at 2:00 AM, graeberguinn said:

it got me thinking how viable a whole spaping themed team could be

For normal enemies, you'd be better off just focusing on defeating them as quickly as possible.  For EBs and AVs, not only do they generally, (AFAIK), have fairly significant resistances to end drain, but their powers don't follow the same cost schedule as players, so if they have like just 1 end, they can use their powers, so unless you not only keep them completely drained, but you must also keep applying/refreshing any -recovery effects...

Edited Thursday at 03:22 AM by biostem

[Scarlet Shocker]

6 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I play a lot of electric based toons as I've always liked sapping stuff (especially back in the day PvP wise), but this thread got me thinking about an elec sentinel and I ended up rolling one as a new project.

 

So credit where it's due @mistagoat o7.

 

I predict your enjoyment will be maximised

[Psyonico]

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I play a lot of electric based toons as I've always liked sapping stuff (especially back in the day PvP wise), but this thread got me thinking about an elec sentinel and I ended up rolling one as a new project.

 

So credit where it's due @mistagoat o7.

I started thinking about an Elec/Earth Dom.  Hoping that Earth’s damage and soft control potential would make up for Elec’s shortcomings.

[aethereal]

While the "enemies can use any powers with just 1 endurance" idea is long-established, I don't think it's true.  I paid fairly close attention to this when testing the electrical blast changes.

 

What I think caused this misapprehension is that enemies got a recovery tick and then immediately used a power, which looked like using a power with insufficient endurance.

 

There are a non-trivial number of enemies that have 0 endurance cost attacks.

 

The recovery debuff you can apply to AVs and EBs is capped: they got a minimum recovery level in the same page that released the electric blast changes.

Edited Thursday at 05:11 PM by aethereal

[SeraphimKensai]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

I started thinking about an Elec/Earth Dom.  Hoping that Earth’s damage and soft control potential would make up for Elec’s shortcomings.

I haven't tried elec/earth, but on the Domi side I really like elec/psi as mine is basically an HP capped regeneration Domi where if the first hit doesn't kill me, chances are I'm not dying as my regen kicks in and mobs get sapped/recharge debuffed.

[SeraphimKensai]

5 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

I predict your enjoyment will be maximised

I made a build for it last night, and eschewing defense mantra, the build get most resistances to the 50-60's while having hasten perma with TB, Charge, and Energize having recharges around 24 seconds. So the build will have decent heals/regen padded on top of a decent baseline resistance.

 

It has 100% debuff res against slows and end drain as well, so no cares about sappers or stacked caltrops.

 

All the while leveraging tons of -end/-recovery and including 2x -res procs along with several damage procs in key powers.

 

I plan to make it elec/elec/elc (which I hardly ever keep a uniform theme across the board) for elec fences and shocking field (to synergize with being in melee for use of short circuit)

 

I have family in from out of town so I'm hosting, but once they go home I'll be able to ramp up and give it more testing.

[Octogoat]

Why not all beam/elec corrs called the Ghosttoasters?

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

on the Domi side I really like elec/psi

I know a guy who has one as well and he’s basically said the same things you said.  Psychic Shockwave does sound tasty and I know that Drain Psyche is quite nice.

 

mind posting your build?

[SeraphimKensai]

8 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

mind posting your build?

I typically don't publicly post my builds, but I send ya a pm later tonight as I'm not at my home machine and don't get to fire it up until after my kid goes to sleep.

[Stiletto]

On 5/4/2025 at 6:59 AM, Snarky said:

one thing i did not see mentioned.  NPCs CHEAT with end.  Say they have an attack that costs 20 end.  They can fire it on 1 end.  (you try that!)  It makes the recovery suppression huge, because you have to squish it to zero and keep it there for it to be useful.  

I totally agree with Snarky on this.  Things that don't get mentioned.  When YOU get drained by a Sapper or Ring Mistress, etc. Your shields drop, and you cant use your heavy damage / powers at all.  Time and time again I've seen Bosses and Elite Bosses drained to Zero (0), and they still manage to get off some heavy damage shots. Do THEIR Shields Drop? Perhaps, but nowhere near as much as ours do. And, their shields come back up instantly if they do drop. The Game Cheats. 

 

People are also overlooking the End Goal with Mobs and Bosses.  And, that's to eliminate them as fast as possible. Draining does no damage.  However, combined with Damage you kill 2 birds with one stone.  A team with decently slotted Electric Blasters with one or two Electric Defenders / Corruptors / Controllers or Dominators could sweep Mobs and Bosses fairly quickly. If you add a player with SLOW or COLD, that's even better. Not only are they drained, but they are slowed down to the point where they cant get many shots off.   I think that's viable option with a Sapping Team.  Try it on an ITF and see.  

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Stiletto said:

I totally agree with Snarky on this.  Things that don't get mentioned.  When YOU get drained by a Sapper or Ring Mistress, etc. Your shields drop, and you cant use your heavy damage / powers at all.  Time and time again I've seen Bosses and Elite Bosses drained to Zero (0), and they still manage to get off some heavy damage shots. Do THEIR Shields Drop? Perhaps, but nowhere near as much as ours do. And, their shields come back up instantly if they do drop. The Game Cheats. 

 

That's not how it works. They cannot use high endurance cost abilities if they have no end. Often their toggles do drop and don't come back instantly.

 

I suspect what's happening is you aren't looking closely enough at their endurance when things like this happen, you think they're still at zero, but they're not.

[Stiletto]

43 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

That's not how it works. They cannot use high endurance cost abilities if they have no end. Often their toggles do drop and don't come back instantly.

 

I suspect what's happening is you aren't looking closely enough at their endurance when things like this happen, you think they're still at zero, but they're not.

I know its not supposed to work that way.  But sooo many times it does.  Might be which boss though. I'm sure some have better recovery than others.  But I do watch their End  and I've seen them do Alpha strikes even at very low end.  I'm just guessing that it costs them less End to do those bigger attacks. This is why  in all honesty I don't rely on Sapping the bad guys. I think it doesn't work on them as well las it does on us. For me its Debuff (-Def and -Res) then Damage Damage Damage Die 

[Wavicle]

23 minutes ago, Stiletto said:

I know its not supposed to work that way.  But sooo many times it does.  Might be which boss though. I'm sure some have better recovery than others.  But I do watch their End  and I've seen them do Alpha strikes even at very low end.  I'm just guessing that it costs them less End to do those bigger attacks. This is why  in all honesty I don't rely on Sapping the bad guys. I think it doesn't work on them as well las it does on us. For me its Debuff (-Def and -Res) then Damage Damage Damage Die 

 

Yes, them having attacks that AREN'T high cost, even though they are for us is totally possible.

[aethereal]

8 hours ago, Stiletto said:

I totally agree with Snarky on this.  Things that don't get mentioned.  When YOU get drained by a Sapper or Ring Mistress, etc. Your shields drop, and you cant use your heavy damage / powers at all.  Time and time again I've seen Bosses and Elite Bosses drained to Zero (0), and they still manage to get off some heavy damage shots. Do THEIR Shields Drop? Perhaps, but nowhere near as much as ours do. And, their shields come back up instantly if they do drop. The Game Cheats. 

 

I don't think that the game cheats, but you are correct that there's a big asymmetry here.  Enemies do not generally have any toggles.  They might have one.  Resistance powers are often auto-powers rather than toggles.

 

Getting detoggled is devastating for many players.  Even if you have plenty of endurance to retoggle, you might gave 5+ toggles to turn back on, and just the cast time is prohibitive.

 

It's very different for enemies.

[Psyonico]

Also, a lot of powers you think are toggles for NPCs (temp invulnerability comes to mind) are actually clicks with a duration and a recharge, which is why you see NPCs that follow you continuously activate them.