Legendary 45% softcap... True/False/Sometimes/BS?

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, Championess said:

 

Hmm I've linked you sub 50s pylon builds to show I know a little bit about building in offense on a dom.  Dont see u posted. I even offered to race your defenseless dommie in real game content but its crickets.

 

Someone lacks courage of which they speak and I'm not sure its me.  

 

You like to chatter so I'll leave you to it.  Anytime you wanna setup a playdate hit me up.

 

 

Radios do not address my point. A build screenshot would address my point. This is like telling me to do a pylon test to prove that my character is survivable. It doesn’t comport with reason. If you refuse to provide evidence, you are kinda just admitting to me that you are full of shit. The stubborn, disingenuous, and completely illogical  gaslighting is really unfortunate. Didn’t know Mez was like that tbh.

 

I think you and I both know that you won’t provide a screenshot because the build you’ve described does not and cannot exist.

Edited Friday at 10:40 PM by arcane

[Maelwys]

32 minutes ago, Championess said:

That was a quickie I threw together to show others surely doms can get sub 50s pylons.  Its a show pony build JUST for pylons as stated here and in that thread. 

Sure.

And whilst it's decent at the job it's intended for; after viewing the actual build we can confirm its current raw stats and uncover some minor room for improvement.
  

32 minutes ago, Championess said:

Less typing, more reading.

Less boasting, more build file sharing.
Please.

Note that sharing a toon's build is not the same as watching you race it through a mission. The latter might demonstrate how a toon potentially performs in practice; but it doesn't reveal what raw stats and slotting it has or show whether there is no longer any additional room for improvement via enhancement tweaks (things like player skill, map memorization and specific enemy matchups are variables which differ from person to person and encounter to encounter. Not so with build stats. A lot of us actually enjoy creating/improving/endlessly poking at builds more than we enjoy actually playing the game!)
 

Edited Friday at 10:57 PM by Maelwys

[arcane]

I mean I understand the point of demanding a +4x8 radio race instead of providing a screenshot.
 

A screenshot would immediately tell us if Mez is being truthful or not.

 

In a +4x8 radio race, Mez is banking on his higher defenses actually saving him more time than the time the corresponding offense loss in his build costs him. And he might be right - too bad that has nothing to do with his claim. He’s hoping that he can take the optics of winning a race in something that isn’t designed to test raw offensive capability and then claim he was right all along even though he hasn’t proven the actual claim he made. It’s cynical but it makes sense.

Edited Friday at 11:03 PM by arcane

[Championess]

4 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Sure.

And whilst it's decent at the job it's intended for; after viewing the actual build we can confirm its current raw stats and uncover some minor some room for improvement.
  

Less boasting, more build file sharing.
Please.

Note that sharing a toon's build is not the same as watching you race it through a mission. The latter might demonstrate how a toon potentially performs in practice; but it doesn't reveal what raw stats and slotting it has or show whether there is no longer any additional room for improvement via enhancement tweaks (things like player skill, map memorization and specific enemy matchups are variables which differ from person to person and encounter to encounter. Not so with build stats. A lot of us actually enjoy creating/improving/endlessly poking at builds more than we enjoy actually playing the game!)
 

 

Oh I never said it couldn't be improved upon.  Which is kind of the whole point of this thread.  I wasn't boasting.  People were asking for some credentials so they were given yet I dont see anyone elses...

 

There's big differences in how you can play this game which is what I said in this topic and that "pure offense" thread for that quickie ST dps build I threw together to inspire naysayers.

 

Point is for the entirety of the game you're limiting all that you can be by not building for defenses where its no real sacrifice to do so.  Or you can build to punch pylons and even con enemies.  Lots of ways to go about things here I think thats the draw to the game.

[Maelwys]

37 minutes ago, Latex said:

All my chars have softcap on one or two positonal DEF's, had far more mileage with Ranged DEF, even as non-hover Blasters who prefer being in the thick of it.

People saying 'wait for the Scrapper or Tank to get aggro'
I prefer to nuke a cluster of 16 mobs as a Blaster before anyone gets aggro and often times to survive the 'Alpha Strike' my DEF is the first layer of... defense.

Nothing worse in this game than being a Blaster and your nuke hitting nothing because someone killed the mobs before you. 'I hit my nuke, where big numbers... oh...' I hate it, so I build to survive and build for Rech to do it every other mob pack.

This is exactly the sort of post that makes complete sense to me - someone has made a conscious decision to prioritize Defense in their build over maximum Damage.
Whilst the Blaster in question probably still has a decent amount of damage; they won't be cranking it up to 11..
Because everything has a trade-off.

A different take on it would be my Fire Blaster; who completely ignores both defense and debt and very much enjoys using Inferno on one mob and Rise of the Phoenix on the next one. AoE damage prioritised; mitigation (other than the sustain from their Secondary and the occasional usage of Clarion Destiny) pretty much ignored.
My Archery/TA Blaster also has softcapped Ranged Defense + their Damage output is very good; just not as high as it would have been if I'd completely focused on it.

[Snarky]

21 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

This is exactly the sort of post that makes complete sense to me - someone has made a conscious decision to prioritize Defense in their build over maximum Damage.
Whilst the Blaster in question probably still has a decent amount of damage; they won't be cranking it up to 11..
Because everything has a trade-off.

A different take on it would be my Fire Blaster; who completely ignores both defense and debt and very much enjoys using Inferno on one mob and Rise of the Phoenix on the next one. AoE damage prioritised; mitigation (other than the sustain from their Secondary and the occasional usage of Clarion Destiny) pretty much ignored.
My Archery/TA Blaster also has softcapped Ranged Defense + their Damage output is very good; just not as high as it would have been if I'd completely focused on it.

My Fire Blaster is the same.  I cannonball rooms with 3 separate large groups at 4/8.  surprisingly enough many times i live!  when i don't.... boom! i'm back baby!  the damage is just glorious...

[Maelwys]

  

38 minutes ago, Championess said:

 I wasn't boasting.  People were asking for some credentials so they were given yet I dont see anyone elses...

Hi! I'm Troy Mc @Maelwys. 

You may not remember me as the creator of the first truly-self-sustaining Spines/DA Scrapper; as a member of the first successful Master of Statesman's Taskforce run on a UK Server (shout out to NineClaws!); or as the winner of Worst CoH Santa Costume 2006.



Happier now?

My builds are posted all over the place. Pick any subforum + chances are that I've posted a build somewhere in the first page of threads.
_{(Especially the farming threads recently for some reason. Srsly if I have to explain the difference between an "Active" farming build and an "AFK" farming in single syllable words one more time... rassin' frassin'...)}

You want one of my Softcapped Defense builds? Sure. here: Blaster - Archery - Tactical Arrow.mbd
Want another? here: Arachnos Bane Spider.mbd 
Want more?
Brute - Battle Axe - Fiery Aura (+Recovery).mbd
Controller - Illusion - Time (PwrBoost).mbd
Scrapper - Kat_Regen IOed.mbd

Sentinel - Beam Rifle - Ninjitsu (Weave).mbd
Tanker (Bio Armor - Staff) (CT + Taunt + SS).mbd

Just say "when".

Have a few "softcapped pet" ones too whilst you're at it:
Arachnos Crab Spider (Soul).mbd
Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (Bonfire).mbd

I got hundreds of these things.
 

38 minutes ago, Championess said:

Point is for the entirety of the game you're limiting all that you can be by not building for defenses where its no real sacrifice to do so. 

I've highlighted the relevant bit.
Again you're claiming that you can build for Defense without sacrifice.
None of us have seen any evidence of this; and our personal experience is to the contrary.

The burden of proof to show otherwise and back up your outlandish claims lies on you.
 

Edited Friday at 11:42 PM by Maelwys

[Championess]

1 minute ago, Maelwys said:

  

Hi! I'm Troy Mc @Maelwys. 

You may not remember me as the creator of the first truly-self-sustaining Spines/DA Scrapper; as a member of the first successful Master of Statesman's Taskforce run on a UK Server (shout out to NineClaws!); or as the winner of Worst CoH Santa Costume 2006.



Happier now?

My builds are posted all over the place. Pick any subforum + chances are that I've posted a build somewhere in the first page of threads.
_{(Especially the farming threads recently for some reason. Srsly if I have to explain the difference between an "Active" farming build and an "AFK" farming in single syllable words one more time... rassin' frassin'...)}

You want one of my Softcapped Defense builds? Sure. here: Blaster - Archery - Tactical Arrow.mbd
Want another? here: Arachnos Bane Spider.mbd 
Want more?
Brute - Battle Axe - Fiery Aura (+Recovery).mbd
Controller - Illusion - Time (PwrBoost).mbd
Scrapper - Kat_Regen IOed.mbd

 Sentinel - Beam Rifle - Ninjitsu (Weave).mbd
Tanker (Bio Armor - Staff) (CT + Taunt + SS).mbd

Just say "when".

Have a few "softcaped pet" ones too whilst you're at it:
Arachnos Crab Spider (Soul).mbd
Mastermind - Robotics - Kinetics (Bonfire).mbd

I got hundreds of these things.
 

I've highlighted the relevant bit.
Again you're claiming that you can build for Defense without sacrifice.
None of us have seen any evidence of this; and our personal experience is to the contrary.

The burden of proof to show otherwise and back up your outlandish claims lies on you.
 

 

Yes.  I can see why you won kudos to the judges 😜

[Maelwys]

Just now, Championess said:

 

Yes.  I can see why you won kudos to the judges 😜

I think one of them is still in rehab.

[Troo]

[shortguy on indom]

• CHANCES OF NOT GETTING HIT CONSECUTIVE TIMES....

PLEASE REALIZES THIS IS IF YOU ARE SOLO... WITH A FULL TEAM WOULD BE FAR LESS RIGHT?.... OR MAYBE SO MUCH LESS THAT DOES NOT MATTER?

 

• FIRST SCREEN IS WITHOUT THE EFFECT OF STREAKBREAKER.
• SECOND SCREEN IS WITH STREAKBREAKER.  WHICH IS WHAT GAME DOES...

 

*ADDED NOT ABOVE.*  

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 02:29 AM by shortguy on indom
reattached.

[shortguy on indom]

• WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ENEMY CHANCETOHIT IS FLOORED BY TOHITDEBUFFS?... LOL

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, shortguy on indom said:

• CHANCES OF GETTING HIT CONSECUTIVE TIMES....

PLEASE REALIZES THIS IS IF YOU ARE SOLO... WITH A FULL TEAM WOULD BE FAR LESS RIGHT?.... OR MAYBE SO MUCH LESS THAT DOES NOT MATTER?

 

• FIRST SCREEN IS WITHOUT THE EFFECT OF STREAKBREAKER.
• SECOND SCREEN IS WITH STREAKBREAKER.  WHICH IS WHAT GAME DOES...
•  

yeah, this math is wrong too.  If enemies have a final chance to hit of 5% how do they have a 100% chance to miss *any* attacks?

[shortguy on indom]

32 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

yeah, this math is wrong too.  If enemies have a final chance to hit of 5% how do they have a 100% chance to miss *any* attacks?

• READ THE TITLE OF THE CHART.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, shortguy on indom said:

• READ THE TITLE OF THE CHART.

Your title doesn’t help.  If enemies have a 5% chance to-hit a specific target, then the chance that target gets hit “one consecutive time” has to be 5%

[shortguy on indom]

• YOU GOT ME...IT'S NOT EXACTLY 'CITY OF HEROES' SPECIFIC.
• ITS ALWAYS AT LEAST A 5% CHANCE... BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT CANNOT HAPPEN.
• SO ITS A 'BELL CURVE' SHAPE, THINGS TEND TO GET WONKY AT THE EDGES... SAME IDEA AT 95%.

Edited Sunday at 03:45 AM by shortguy on indom
more words.

[Maelwys]

6 hours ago, shortguy on indom said:

• YOU GOT ME...IT'S NOT EXACTLY 'CITY OF HEROES' SPECIFIC.

 

I think this is going to matter.

 

Neither this sheet nor the "consecutive losing streak calculator" you posted in the other thread have their values properly bounded (they're not expecting any "clamping" to be occurring to their values!) and seem to have been originally intended for other (financial?) purposes.

 

However the binomial distribution function used here is vastly more appropriate than the natural logarithmic function used in that other sheet (attack misses don't compound the same way financial interest does!) and the points where the streakbreaker is kicking in to force a hit in this one look right, so it's definitely showing something... just not the effect of a character having +45% Defense (unless the enemy attacking them has precisely zero positive AccMod bonuses - e.g. that 5% minimum is almost never reached unless you're fighting an even level or lower minion!)

 

It might also be worth noting that the current title of the chart doesn't appear to actually describe what the data is showing. From what I can see the chart is not showing the chance for X consecutive misses over a set of 10 attacks; but rather the chance for X misses to occur over a set of 10 attacks regardless of whether or not those misses are consecutive (so 0X0X0X0X0X is being treated the same as XXXXX00000).

This distinction will make at least some real-world difference in CoH, because your character getting hit with multiple attacks in a short space of time - "Spike Damage" - is harder to counter via Health Regeneration and Clickyheals etc. That's why Arcanaville in their old defensive powerset comparisons always used to mention things like Maximum HP and the "Immortality Line" rather than purely focusing on Defense in isolation.

 

Edited Sunday at 09:59 AM by Maelwys

[Seed22]

A PSA for def chasers:

 

Learn what inspirations are. There is a tutorial but it's completely optional, which is a disservice. It should be expanded and mandatory imo. The best players in the game don't build for def on non def based sets like SR for a reason. That very obvious reason is no DDR. DDR matters far more than your 45% def, as with none, you fold to any debuff, which there will be plenty at endgame and a good deal even before.

 

Learn how to use inspirations and build a damage AT to deal damage, a simple yet seemingly controversial statement to make apparently. The perfect AT to do this for is dominators. They get, imo, the greatest use out of insp given their all offense nature, next obviously is blasters. 

 

I can guarantee you my proc bombed blaster will solo clear and team clear exponentially faster than your 45% def build while also chewing insp and maintaining the same level of survival, also with barrier being cycled in. 

 

It is not a crutch to use the tools the game gives you. 

 

As soon as P2 drops and mids updates, I will share my closed beta build for an AT that is getting a new set that clears +4×8 impressively fast making use of procs, barrier, and of course, insp.

 

These are the builds you see blitzing the only content worth a slight damn difficulty wise(4 star). Proc builds with barrier and/or insp.

Edited Sunday at 02:11 PM by Seed22

[Jiro Ito]

29 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

These are the builds you see blitzing the only content worth a slight damn difficulty wise(4 star). Proc builds with barrier and/or insp.

 

but you can't use inspirations on 4 star content...

[Seed22]

2 minutes ago, Jiro Ito said:

 

but you can't use inspirations on 4 star content...

Barrier is what people use. For 4 star you stock up immortal recovery. Insp was for general content, but thats on me for not specifying 

Edited Sunday at 02:43 PM by Seed22

[ScarySai]

Why do you format your posts like a malfunctioning chatbot?

[Maelwys]

22 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Why do you format your posts like a malfunctioning chatbot?

 

 

[battlewraith]

21 hours ago, Seed22 said:

It is not a crutch to use the tools the game gives you. 

 

I think that's a matter of opinion. 

Inspirations are generic buffs that anyone can load up on. I think they're the coh version of steroids. They absolutely boost performance, but I find it less rewarding to play that way and I think there are a lot of other players that probably have similar sentiments.

If I'm building a solo character I'm trying to make something that covers as many bases as possible. That's part of the design "challenge." It's already ridiculous what you can accomplish with set bonuses, procs, and incarnate buffs. I don't need an additional stream of insps to remind me how trivial the game content can be made. I personally wouldn't steer players in that direction.  

[Snarky]

20 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Why do you format your posts like a malfunctioning chatbot?

I am the OG malfunctioning chat machine.   You cannot take that from me.  No one can ever take that from me!   I am inevitably!!!

 

[Snokle]

23 hours ago, battlewraith said:

 

I think that's a matter of opinion. 

Inspirations are generic buffs that anyone can load up on. I think they're the coh version of steroids. They absolutely boost performance, but I find it less rewarding to play that way and I think there are a lot of other players that probably have similar sentiments.

If I'm building a solo character I'm trying to make something that covers as many bases as possible. That's part of the design "challenge." It's already ridiculous what you can accomplish with set bonuses, procs, and incarnate buffs. I don't need an additional stream of insps to remind me how trivial the game content can be made. I personally wouldn't steer players in that direction.  

 

Inspirations are in the game by default use them or not, that is choice of the player. For new people yes use inspirations, and just for normal gaming use inspirations. If you want to do a challenge (which you are doing for yourself) then go ahead. It does not trivialize the game, the game is 20+ years old and most of us are here just to have fun. There is enough out there for hard content if you want a challenge in AE if you look for it.

 

I would steer players to play how they want and use all mechanics that are available to them to enjoy the game the way they see fit, if it is solo, team, inspirations, or not.