Legendary 45% softcap... True/False/Sometimes/BS?

[tidge]

The original sin of Inspirations, if there is one, is not the inspirations fault, it's that certain powers in the original game were inferior versions of inspirations, including some Armor T9s, and many original self-healing options. Long recharges, crashes, gatekeeping powers are all things that can be avoided by just using Inspirations.

[battlewraith]

25 minutes ago, Snokle said:

 

Inspirations are in the game by default use them or not, that is choice of the player. For new people yes use inspirations, and just for normal gaming use inspirations. If you want to do a challenge (which you are doing for yourself) then go ahead. It does not trivialize the game, the game is 20+ years old and most of us are here just to have fun. There is enough out there for hard content if you want a challenge in AE if you look for it.

 

I would steer players to play how they want and use all mechanics that are available to them to enjoy the game the way they see fit, if it is solo, team, inspirations, or not.

 

Yes, I'm not saying don't use inspirations. I'm responding to the idea that you should not build for defense because you can just be routinely popping inspirations. If that's what floats your boat, more power to whoever wants to do that. But I don't think that was really the intent behind inspirations and I don't think that should be presented as some sort of standard. 

[Snokle]

19 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

Yes, I'm not saying don't use inspirations. I'm responding to the idea that you should not build for defense because you can just be routinely popping inspirations. If that's what floats your boat, more power to whoever wants to do that. But I don't think that was really the intent behind inspirations and I don't think that should be presented as some sort of standard. 

 

The note of this, is you should not just build up to 45% defence on all ATs, that is what a lot of people have been saying. All my ATs, that do not have DDR in them do not run 45% Def, as it is roughly not gonna help you in the long run.  While yes you will get 5% chance it hit at even level enemies, but you are usually sacrificing others things that that your AT could excel at. 

 

As it was mentioned here Dominators, we sit around 20% Def, then use Inspirations if needed or Incarnates, or other powers if there is issues not just using inspirations all the time. Old school Dom builds probably run 45% S/L/E but you are loosing a lot now, to just take advantage to the powers and mechanics in the game.

[battlewraith]

5 minutes ago, Snokle said:

All my ATs, that do not have DDR in them do not run 45% Def, as it is roughly not gonna help you in the long run.

 

Sure, that might make sense with the content that you do and your general philosophy of playing the game.

In my experience, running with 45% in  general helps greatly with survivability. If there is a situation where I need DDR, I think I can get some from one of the destinies. If that doesn't work. then I can pop inspirations as needed. I understand that this less optimal, but I find that preferable to constantly monitoring and popping inspirations as the default mode. I do that when I'm farming, I really don't want to do that in general playing. Moreover, if I'm going to min/max a character for damage to the extent that I'm relying on inspirations to keep it alive--I'm going to min/max everything. Find that hardest hitting combo, on the hardest hitting AT, and clear as fast as possible if that's what is important. Why bother with anything else?

[aethereal]

With respect to routine use of inspirations, it's also just, like...  not a lot of fun to commit to all that inspiration management, for me.

 

If you want to keep inspirations of very particular types (probably orange/purple, maybe breakfrees, maybe red) constantly available, it's clearly possible.  People do it.  But you need to fill your inspiration tray initially, then as you use inspirations keep it clear enough to get drops of your favored types and either combine or delete inspirations to make space continuously.  That's just not gameplay I enjoy.  In the same way that some people hate hate hate clicky armor sets or demand taunt auras on their melee characters, I think it's just not a ton of fun to spend my time and attention on that management.  I tried it recently with a blaster and breakfrees plus some defense insps, and it just wasn't enjoyable.

 

No shade on people who like that.  But consider it as a style-of-play thing.

[arcane]

Not a lot of fun to me to have substandard damage and mobility. No shade on people who like that.

[battlewraith]

21 minutes ago, arcane said:

Not a lot of fun to me to have substandard damage and mobility. No shade on people who like that.

Suboptimal damage maybe? I think "standard" damage doesn't really entail popping inspirations constantly. At least I don't see it when I'm around other players. As soon as you team, you're also getting a variety of buffs from other players anyway, so I don't think that many people are worried about it.

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Suboptimal damage maybe? I think "standard" damage doesn't really entail popping inspirations constantly. At least I don't see it when I'm around other players. As soon as you team, you're also getting a variety of buffs from other players anyway, so I don't think that many people are worried about it.

Procs bypass the damage cap so even with a couple of kins around one build style is doing more damage regardless. 
 

Does my character’s performance matter in the slightest on an 8 man team if I’m not speedrunning or doing a 4 star? No, probably not - agree with you there.

[Andreah]

On 5/15/2025 at 7:47 AM, shortguy on indom said:

• LEGENDARY 45% SOFTCAP:
• THIS IS WHERE IT ALL BEGINS...
• Defense Effectiveness - Paragon Wiki Archive
• the whys and why nots...

 

I like to hit the softcap, when I can, or go a little above it, since it's more a guideline than a rule.  If the cost isn't too high in other ways, I'l significantly overachieve it, since enemies have tricks to play too, and you'll get hit a lot more often than you expect if you believe "The Legend".

 

If possible, getting complementary resistances or ability to heal/regen can be more valuable that getting a few more defense points to match the technical softcap.

 

I find in regular content that being reasonably solid protection-wise is a big help to feeling like a "Superhero" -- which is key part of what I like about the game. Sure, defeat's not really painful, but "Superheroes" should be hard to defeat!  And good soft-cap-ish defenses are an achievable way to be tough like that for most builds.

[Uncle Shags]

The funny this is, despite multiple posts, lots of bullet points, and charts, in two threads, I'm still not sure what OPs point is. 

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Uncle Shags said:

The funny this is, despite multiple posts, lots of bullet points, and charts, in two threads, I'm still not sure what OPs point is. 

[Murcielago]

I like the soft cap, it makes me STRONG and PRETTY.

Edited Tuesday at 11:07 PM by Murcielago

[Maelwys]

30 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

I like the soft cap, it makes me STRONG and PRETTY.

This is the answer. All that charts and numbers tomfoolery is just so much bawbaw soup.


 

[shortguy on indom]

• POINT OF THIS: 
• IF THE ENEMY HAS A 95% CHANCETOHIT (I.E. +3/AV), JUST BECAUSE OF STREAKBREAKER, YOU THE TOON, ARE GOING TO GET HIT EVERY OTHER STRIKE..... NO MATTER HOW MUCH DEFENSE YOU HAVE OR HAVE NOT...
• ...OTHER THAN INCARNATE BARRIER RIGHT?

[Andreah]

18 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

• IF THE ENEMY HAS A 95% CHANCETOHIT (I.E. +3/AV), JUST BECAUSE OF STREAKBREAKER, YOU THE TOON, ARE GOING TO GET HIT EVERY OTHER STRIKE..... NO MATTER HOW MUCH DEFENSE YOU HAVE OR HAVE NOT...

No, that's not how the streakbreaker works. The allowed misses in a row depends on the final chance to hit, after your defense is applied, not before. If you have high defense, the final chance to hit you will be low, and streakbreaker will allow many misses, easily up to 100,  before it forces a hit.

[shortguy on indom]

•  

Edited yesterday at 12:09 PM by shortguy on indom
chart.

[shortguy on indom]

14 minutes ago, Andreah said:

No, that's not how the streakbreaker works. The allowed misses in a row depends on the final chance to hit, after your defense is applied, not before. If you have high defense, the final chance to hit you will be low, and streakbreaker will allow many misses, easily up to 100,  before it forces a hit.

• MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT STREAKBREAKER IS SEPERATE MECHANIC AND APPLIED ONLY IF THERE IS A MISS.
• SO, I REKON A MISS COULD STILL BE HAD BECAUSE OF A HIT-ROLL... 

[Snarky]

i think there needs to be like 42 misses before streakbreaker kicks in.  that is the answer.

[shortguy on indom]

• SO, THE WIKI SAYS THE STREAKBREAKER TRACKS ATTACKERS (THE ENEMY IN THIS CASE), NOT POWERS.
• THINK WHATEVER THE REASON THE POWER MISSES, IS REASON ENOUGH.

[shortguy on indom]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

i think there needs to be like 42 misses before streakbreaker kicks in.  that is the answer.

• ITS 42.75757575..YOU MAY HAVE USED THE WRONG FORMULA.  💟

[Maelwys]

14 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

  

33 minutes ago, Andreah said:

  

54 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

• IF THE ENEMY HAS A 95% CHANCETOHIT (I.E. +3/AV), JUST BECAUSE OF STREAKBREAKER, YOU THE TOON, ARE GOING TO GET HIT EVERY OTHER STRIKE..... NO MATTER HOW MUCH DEFENSE YOU HAVE OR HAVE NOT...

 

No, that's not how the streakbreaker works. The allowed misses in a row depends on the final chance to hit, after your defense is applied, not before. If you have high defense, the final chance to hit you will be low, and streakbreaker will allow many misses, easily up to 100,  before it forces a hit.

 

• MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT STREAKBREAKER IS SEPERATE MECHANIC AND APPLIED ONLY IF THERE IS A MISS.
• SO, I REKON A MISS COULD STILL BE HAD BECAUSE OF A HIT-ROLL... 

You're correct that the Streakbreaker only kicks in to override misses. However in order to see if it should override that miss or not; the Streakbreaker looks at the FINAL HIT CHANCE of the attacks that have actually landed on that target; after the target's Defense buffs and any ToHit debuffs have been taken into consideration.

So OK; a +3 AV may well have a 95% to hit unbuffed players with a particular attack... however when they use that attack against [a player that has +45% Defense] then without any other buffs/debuffs in play that attack's FINAL HIT CHANCE will almost certainly be lower than 10% (it'll only be above 5% due to the AV's AccMods!). And unless that FINAL HIT CHANCE is above 20%; the streakbreaker will permit 100 misses in a row.

Therefore with significant Defense buffs in play the streakbreaker won't be a factor at all (which is why we're all saying that it's largely irrelevant when building for +defense!)
 

Edited yesterday at 12:34 PM by Maelwys

[shortguy on indom]

• 23 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

  However in order to see if it should override that miss or not; the Streakbreaker looks at the FINAL HIT CHANCE of the attacks that have actually landed on that target; after the target's Defense buffs and any ToHit debuffs have been taken into consideration.

   

• ...STREAKBREAKER ONLY TRACKS MISSES OF THE ATTACKER.
• NOTHING WRONG WITH CHART.
• IF IT ENDS UP BEING 20%, CHART IS STILL CORRECT.

   

[Andreah]

Also, please, for gods' sake, turn off your caps lock.

[Andreah]

15 minutes ago, shortguy on indom said:

IF IT ENDS UP BEING 20%, CHART IS STILL CORRECT.

 

The point is, it virtually never is 20% or more. If your defense is high enough, Streakbreaker lets them miss you 100 times before it forces a hit. 

 

Look, just use some high-school scientific method. Instead of obsessing over your parsing of the wording in the (old, out of date, I might add) wiki; put your interpretation to the test. Go in game, find a +4 AV to fight solo and examine your combat log. You don't need a five page thread full of caps locks to see it doesn't work the way you think it does.

[Snokle]

56 minutes ago, Snarky said:

i think there needs to be like 42 misses before streakbreaker kicks in.  that is the answer.

 

But is it the answer to everything?

Edited yesterday at 01:19 PM by Snokle