Erratic1 Posted June 5 Posted June 5 1 hour ago, Lazarillo said: I get that's the argument. The counterpoint is "not everything has to be an offensive boost for overall parity to exist". Ninjutsu is much the same. It's pretty disingenuous to call it a lesser version of /SR for Stalkers just because it doesn't have the extra damage Scrappers and Sentinels get, when Ninjutsu also gets a frackton of active mitigation tools that can combine with things like set bonuses and the like to do what /SR can and more, in a lot of cases, as a defensive set. Seems to have missed the miserable DDR Ninjitsu is saddled with.
BrandX Posted June 6 Posted June 6 And why doesn't Mask Presence give AOE Defense when in the middle of combat? I'd honestly prefer the equal amount of Melee/Range/AOE defense over a Ninjitsu style Crit while in stealth.
BuildsAllTheThings Posted June 6 Posted June 6 This feedback taken from gameplay iterations observed on 6/5-6/2025: Real quick; hey there. I'm LFL on Discord. Large Format Lady. This doesn't matter for most folks, this is just for the devs notes, as I'd made some points over on discord about where Psionic Armor was as a set, both on the pve and pvp fronts, with regards to its performance on the closed beta. In the initial and then later impressions of the set, the conclusions I'd arrived at up to those points was that psionic armor had a lot of different points of pros and cons, that ultimately resulted in a set that didn't provide a lot of anything on offense or defense. It was serviceable, but sticky and unremarkable in pve, and borderline unusable in pvp. Since then, there have been an abundance of changes. Namely in: Aura of Insanity Memento mori And Psycho Kinetic Barrier. Now. I want to say out and out, I am blown out of the water by the changes that have been made. They're an entirely on the whole positive, and good step forward. It's part of why I'm making the post now, because it's just as important that when we lay out critiques--if that feedback is received openly, and responded with earnest effort, to make sure that we don't take it for granted. I'm happy! I feel like this is a set I can use. Not only does it feel like a set I can use. I feel like I can take it into high level play in pve and pvp. That said! Positive feedback on its own doesn't tell you anything, so let's focus on the above powers and their changes, and what those changes have resulted in for the player side. At the end we'll sneak in some brief theory crafting too on potential developer pitfalls, and finish out. Starting with-- Aura of Insanity: Aura of Insanity! (AOI) I love this goofy little thing. Fixing the errors with application, and then adding additional offensive profiling depending on what type of crowd control was applied to it? Oh, it's so beautiful. It's elegant. For team play? It's a massive positive, and has a subtle incentive to encourage more crowd control in team building. And why? Because of all the extra stuff it can do! The -to hit, the -regen*, the -resistance, the -damage. It's all gorgeous. But! It's not just that the additional offensive profiling is really valuable. It is! Don't get me wrong, it is. (And there's a clever little fix in the way that its applied being semi-random, meaning it can't super be abused solo. Which has been a concern for HC devs.) But there are other values in it as a power. The enhancement set versatility, is such a boon for a set that has a lot of axis you can play on in order to make it feel, well, "Super" for lack of a better term. Call of the Sandman, Absolute Amazement, the mez, hami's, anything out of the holds-- It is a builder's dream power. I do suspect there might be some slight dev issues with this beast in particular, but we'll come to that in a moment. Psycho Kinetic Barrier: Original assessments of this power was that its place in the set was interesting. A shorter duration absorb with, a set that was very active and clicky, meant that in theory you would be expected to use it as a means of trying to assess and position. However, in practice, its original incarnation next to the likes of consume/devour psyche not having their own instant heal components and needing to be built up meant that essentially, you were always going to have to simply hit it before pulling into a mob, and then try and get your stacks up as high as possible. And on its own, it didn't even necessarily do enough to make up for the sets very real struggles. This is another complaint that's been taken on! The lowered cooldown is just one facet. (A facet I'm grateful for, don't get it twisted.) The max hp however, is a game changer. And one that lets the set take more consistent advantage of its bonus regen. The stacking over the course of long fights too is also INCREDIBLY welcome. Simple and elegant as a change, but now it means the power's more usable. As a player, I do still have to think about when I want to use it, but it's now not so dire as feeling as if I have to slow pulls, or wait, at basic level 50 content to go out and make the most of what's been given to me. Very welcome additions all around. Memento Mori: Memento mori's original implementation had always been a little bit clunky. It was hard to go and make use of it, because it felt like such a necessary button to have? But not one that would always do what you wanted it to. So. Making it give max health, actual healing, and making it autohit. Actually wildly, and beautifully smooths out all the problems the power has. The cooldown's a trifle long? But honestly, I'd want to do more personal testing before I'd level that critique. If someone else wants to, please feel free to do so. Everything else on it's just gravy though. (It's so good that - I don't suppose the playerbase'd be lucky enough to get you to do this with rising of the phoenix lol? A discussion for another time.) ----- MISCELLANEOUS NOTES AND FOIBLES: So! On the whole. Lotta good. Not that much bad. Problems worth noting, pretty much begin and end with: INSANELY SUSCEPTIBLE TO END DRAIN. Uhh, psycho kinetic barrier stacks -recovery resist, and that's great, but it takes a good while to actually get any of it going. You need to get three stacks ready, to kind of be okay dealing with end-sapping mobs ala mu, malta, etcetera. It's entirely possibly to build around that, but it elevates the set's building difficulty, when it's already nominally unfriendly to those not deeply familiar with the game's mechanics and interplay. Suggested fix is adding -recovery similar debuff resists to Impenetrable. Yes, you can technically solve this just by slotting in an incarnate in ageless, clarion, or running spiritual and always running hot, but these options all either limit the solutions to the level 50 experience in the case of incarnates, or significantly weaken the set's utility such that playing it on scrappers/stalkers would be an incredibly unappealing option. Which isn't something you want when you put this much time and effort into making a set viable. AOI is fine from the player facing end.(Although given how much extra survivability it offers player, it may need to be made available sooner on the scrapper model.) From the developer facing end. I suspect that the way that it can and does apply, next to the offensive opportunities that also go hand in hand. I suspect that you may need to go back later, and make it semi modular, to force players to pick out what offensive opportunities they want, since they may luck into a lot of it at the moment. Now. Let me make this clear. THIS NOTE IS NOT A SUGGESTION TO ADJUST IT NOW. It just so happens that old game developer experience on my end, likes to sniff out for things that will cause me headaches in the future, and I want it to be on your radar. Regen asterisk*: Let me be clear on this point exactly: On. Its. Own. -Regen is not enough of a debuff for a majority of the game's content and gameplay loops. It is very effective for AV's! And having it in here is nice. On its own, -regen is a nothing burger save for av fights and melee vs. melee pvp. ----------- TL;DR then! Final thoughts: Honestly, the set is in a NICE place. It's got some small stuff that could be smoothed over. That end drain is a real problem. But over all the set's in a very healthy place, that feels good on the player end, and tackles the usual problem HC as a team has with things like aoe proc bombing and omega damage from defensive sets. I've gone from being worried about this set, to being genuinely, ecstatically excited for it. Even if it launched as is with the -recovery problems. Anyways, hope this helps. 2
BrandX Posted June 6 Posted June 6 Good post @BuildsAllTheThings I just want to say, the end drain issue you may have, I do feel would be the best theme weakness for Psi Armor. If it's one thing psychic superheroes are always doing is running out of end to keep using their psychic abilities at a sustained level. A little more thematic in theme than lethal weakness 🙂 4 2
BuildsAllTheThings Posted June 6 Posted June 6 @BrandX Thank you! I appreciate it! ❤️ And ehhh. AS for a thematic weakness. Ehhhh. Maaaaaybe? if we were just writing a book or maybe say designing for a table top game, where we could narrow the breadth and width of what players are expected to deal with, by way of dm expectations and some other structural support--I feel like that would really be a way to go. Or even if this was just like titan weapons, or original/current live dark armor. But this isn't a case of, "Oh the set is endurance hungry." On its own totals, and consumption of endurance it's fine. And even if it wasn't, you could just slot performance shifters and be solved for. The issue is specifically the lack of -recovery debuff resistance. It doesn't have any natural insulation outside of psychokinetic barrier. On anything above +0 difficulty, x8 you can expect to run into Mu sapping your endurance for as many as 2.5 or 3 points a cast. Which, most reasonable people I think would go. "Oh that doesn't sound too bad." Then we zoom out. City of heroes is a heavy mob clearing game. Almost like a horde shooter in some regards. It's not that you're just dealing with one mu sorcerer in a pack of arachnos goons. It's that you'll be running into as many as 6 or 7 of them? 2.5 points of -end, transforms into as 8.5 and 11 -end, a rotation. And it's not like these enemies only have one -end attack. They'll cue these things up pretty instantly, with cast times between .67 and 1.186. And these are the generous estimates, with things like psycho kinetic and devour psyche running. If we go and get the straight up details from COD, the actual -end they're packing is a lot higher. Coming in at base totals of -8 and -12 end on top of the -recovery. The problems are much the same for malta, for this set. It uhhh. It needs the insulation 😅 1
BrandX Posted June 6 Posted June 6 9 minutes ago, BuildsAllTheThings said: @BrandX Thank you! I appreciate it! ❤️ And ehhh. AS for a thematic weakness. Ehhhh. Maaaaaybe? if we were just writing a book or maybe say designing for a table top game, where we could narrow the breadth and width of what players are expected to deal with, by way of dm expectations and some other structural support--I feel like that would really be a way to go. Or even if this was just like titan weapons, or original/current live dark armor. But this isn't a case of, "Oh the set is endurance hungry." On its own totals, and consumption of endurance it's fine. And even if it wasn't, you could just slot performance shifters and be solved for. The issue is specifically the lack of -recovery debuff resistance. It doesn't have any natural insulation outside of psychokinetic barrier. On anything above +0 difficulty, x8 you can expect to run into Mu sapping your endurance for as many as 2.5 or 3 points a cast. Which, most reasonable people I think would go. "Oh that doesn't sound too bad." Then we zoom out. City of heroes is a heavy mob clearing game. Almost like a horde shooter in some regards. It's not that you're just dealing with one mu sorcerer in a pack of arachnos goons. It's that you'll be running into as many as 6 or 7 of them? 2.5 points of -end, transforms into as 8.5 and 11 -end, a rotation. And it's not like these enemies only have one -end attack. They'll cue these things up pretty instantly, with cast times between .67 and 1.186. And these are the generous estimates, with things like psycho kinetic and devour psyche running. If we go and get the straight up details from COD, the actual -end they're packing is a lot higher. Coming in at base totals of -8 and -12 end on top of the -recovery. The problems are much the same for malta, for this set. It uhhh. It needs the insulation 😅 True, but it has more than others and it has other features that, for me, that make up for it (Fear/Confuse/+Perception)...also while I hadn't fought Malta on my run (KW Warriors mostly) in tests, I would think what -Rec Protection is has it also has the +Recovery to help with the -Recovery. But hey, if it gets filled better, all the better 🙂
ZEvalkyrie Posted June 7 Posted June 7 (edited) Possible bug: It looks like the +max hp from Psychokinetic Barrier is overwriting and replacing the +max hp from memento mori for me. Has anyone else noticed this? It seems inconsistent on how much but if I use MM and follow it with PB some portion of my +max hp drops. (I tried updating and verifying my client to make sure it's not just a me issue.) Edit: testing was done on brute Edited June 7 by ZEvalkyrie
Kai Moon Posted June 7 Posted June 7 Retested, struckthrough parts of my earlier posts that no longer apply. For brutes, Psychokinetic Barrier has a new combat log message, but "weakeing" should be "weakening". For other ATs, Psychokinetic Barrier still has Energize's message.
Mezmera Posted June 7 Posted June 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sigma7 said: Can somebody give me some slotting advice for aura of insanity? Slotting the power for mez increases the mag rather than duration which is a quite good use for that. I slotted the 6 purple confuse set to get that 5% ranged defense to add on to the armor. Proc's wont fire well in this so if you have the slots I'd do the confuse set. Edited June 7 by Mezmera
BrandX Posted June 7 Posted June 7 10 hours ago, Sigma7 said: Can somebody give me some slotting advice for aura of insanity? Went with full set of Cupid's Crush myself. Also Tried 2 ACC/MEZ +3 HOs with 2 slot Cupid's Crush (one being the Confuse Proc) and one being the Purple Confuse Proc. Felt I did better with the Cupid's Crush set, with it's set bonuses (+3 S/L Resist and good +RCH Bonus)
boss Posted June 7 Posted June 7 On 6/5/2025 at 6:18 PM, Lazarillo said: I get that's the argument. The counterpoint is "not everything has to be an offensive boost for overall parity to exist". Ninjutsu is much the same. It's pretty disingenuous to call it a lesser version of /SR for Stalkers just because it doesn't have the extra damage Scrappers and Sentinels get, when Ninjutsu also gets a frackton of active mitigation tools that can combine with things like set bonuses and the like to do what /SR can and more, in a lot of cases, as a defensive set. Stalker Hide gets things that Scrapper Mask Presence does not. The idea that inherently must also give an additional offensive buff, specifically, in that or some other power is missing the point that the sets remain equitable for their respective ATs. Ok, what are we talking about here? Even with the way the stalker currently is the Scrapper and the stalker damage wise is neck and neck, if not the scrapper pulling ahead. I main both classes and it's way easier on a scrapper; then on a stalker. So, why are we acting like the stalker does way more damage than the scrapper and needs boosts to catch up? i'm so confused. 1
BrandX Posted June 7 Posted June 7 5 hours ago, boss said: Ok, what are we talking about here? Even with the way the stalker currently is the Scrapper and the stalker damage wise is neck and neck, if not the scrapper pulling ahead. I main both classes and it's way easier on a scrapper; then on a stalker. So, why are we acting like the stalker does way more damage than the scrapper and needs boosts to catch up? i'm so confused. Should be noted, this isn't that much of a DPS boost. It gives off a slightly bigger initial hit, if stealthed. It doesn't give continuous +damage. I likely wouldn't have gone the route of making it like ninjitsu with the critical attachment, but I was wondering if the idea came about due to Psylocke.
Wavicle Posted June 7 Posted June 7 As of Build 5: Precognition is now showing -Def Resist, but Psi Defense is still identical to the others, wasn't it doubled in value? Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
MightyBob Posted June 8 Posted June 8 Devour Psyche as a cone feels very, very underwhelming. I feel going with PBAoE would be a better way even if the ratio of benefit/hit had to be reduced. I was trying to monitor the +Regen and +Recovery and it really didn't seem like the power was very effective. Using it didn't feel like it improved my survivability at all. Other than that the set is pretty usable although very click heavy. I would definitely give it a go on live but to be honest I might skip Devour Psyche. That would reduce the clicks as well. Maybe just take a junk power and put the slots in Health and drop a couple Numina and a few Panacea in them.
Wavicle Posted June 8 Posted June 8 3 minutes ago, MightyBob said: Devour Psyche as a cone feels very, very underwhelming. I feel going with PBAoE would be a better way even if the ratio of benefit/hit had to be reduced. I was trying to monitor the +Regen and +Recovery and it really didn't seem like the power was very effective. Using it didn't feel like it improved my survivability at all. Other than that the set is pretty usable although very click heavy. I would definitely give it a go on live but to be honest I might skip Devour Psyche. That would reduce the clicks as well. Maybe just take a junk power and put the slots in Health and drop a couple Numina and a few Panacea in them. Did you miss that it stacks up to 10 stacks and can be refreshed easily? Skipping it would be a huge mistake. It gives the set near Regen levels of regen. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
MightyBob Posted June 8 Posted June 8 1 hour ago, Wavicle said: Did you miss that it stacks up to 10 stacks and can be refreshed easily? Skipping it would be a huge mistake. It gives the set near Regen levels of regen. Yeah, I don't see where is says it stacks. I'm not sure if I feel that makes it bettor or worse. The more I think about it the more I feel if I couldn't create a playable build without it I'd just skip the set. For tanks/brutes it might still be worth playing since with PBAoE you don't have to worry about jumping out of a mob or something to get a better angle like you do with the cone. I guess for a scrapper it could work if you launched it as you approached a mob but that doesn't seem like a good approach for a stalker. I was testing with a staff/psi stalker at +4/8. I built it out with the sets I think would be good but no incarnates and it was playable but I just didn't get much benefit from Devour Psyche but then I didn't hop out to get a better angle for the cone either. 1
BrandX Posted June 8 Posted June 8 (edited) 6 hours ago, MightyBob said: Devour Psyche as a cone feels very, very underwhelming. I feel going with PBAoE would be a better way even if the ratio of benefit/hit had to be reduced. I was trying to monitor the +Regen and +Recovery and it really didn't seem like the power was very effective. Using it didn't feel like it improved my survivability at all. Other than that the set is pretty usable although very click heavy. I would definitely give it a go on live but to be honest I might skip Devour Psyche. That would reduce the clicks as well. Maybe just take a junk power and put the slots in Health and drop a couple Numina and a few Panacea in them. I'm not a fan of cones, but honestly, I wasn't having issues with Devour Psyche at all. It stacks (for the benefits) for like 10 stacks and they last for 45 seconds (you can see the icons even if the power doesn't say it). Fast moving solo, I had no issues with it and I never jumped around to get more targets, though, I would try to get them at good spots when running up to them. Pretty sure it's -100% Regen doesn't stack, but that's still -100% Regen for the tough targets, so that will help you on AVs and GMs when team or solo. Edited June 8 by BrandX 1
Psyonico Posted June 8 Posted June 8 Not only does it stack, but the existing duration refreshes when you re-use the power. So once you have 8+ stacks you only need to hit a couple guys and you’re golden, and with the adaptive recharge, you’re better off hitting fewer enemies. 2 What this team needs is more Defenders
Sigma7 Posted June 8 Posted June 8 Is it unfair to compare this set to bio armor while evaluating it?
MightyBob Posted June 8 Posted June 8 4 hours ago, BrandX said: I'm not a fan of cones, but honestly, I wasn't having issues with Devour Psyche at all. It stacks (for the benefits) for like 10 stacks and they last for 45 seconds (you can see the icons even if the power doesn't say it). Fast moving solo, I had no issues with it and I never jumped around to get more targets, though, I would try to get them at good spots when running up to them. Pretty sure it's -100% Regen doesn't stack, but that's still -100% Regen for the tough targets, so that will help you on AVs and GMs when team or solo. The -Regen is a very good point. I wasn't even thinking about that as I wasn't fighting anything above Boss level.
StarkWhite Posted June 8 Posted June 8 I genuinely do not care about "optimally" positioning the cone. Between the stack duration and refresh and adaptive recharge, I can very rapidly get up to max stacks even just hitting one target at a time, and then just use it on whoever happens to be in the way on cooldown. The gamer-nerd urge to get the maximum impact out of each power usage might actually be working against the better and more natural way to use the power. 3
Sigma7 Posted June 9 Posted June 9 (edited) 18 hours ago, MightyBob said: I was testing with a staff/psi stalker at +4/8. I built it out with the sets I think would be good but no incarnates and it was playable but I tested with DM/PSI and ELEC/PSI no incarnates and +1/8 was barely doable for me with a lot of death. I'm starting to think I'm doing something very wrong. I'm going to go ahead and post screenshots of the builds I'm using here if anybody wants to chime in on why my performance is so subpar compared to other players for this armor. If my performance is that much below what you guys are getting in here then there may be no point in me even testing at all. EDIT: I was doing Grandville paper missions with Malta, Carnies and Council. Edited June 9 by Sigma7
WumpusRat Posted June 9 Posted June 9 So far I've tested (though not super in-depth) with psi-armor: Tanker: Fire melee, psi melee Brute: Fire melee, ice melee, psi melee Scrapper: Katana, fire melee, psi melee I've been running them through the first mission of Alexander's arc against the Warriors, since they're tough, do lots of lethal damage (one of the "weaknesses" of the set), and it's quick to jump into. I've been running at +2/8 with all of them so far. Dealing with the lethal weakness hasn't been an issue, as it's easy enough to plug with set bonuses. The sustain with psychokinetic aura and devour psyche has been incredibly strong. I want to test it out against enemy groups that normally just curbstomp some of my other characters, like high-end Carnies, Malta, or Arachnos. We'll see how that goes tonight. But overall, the set seems quite sturdy, and while a bit clicky, isn't so much that it becomes cumbersome. 2
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