Warshades Posted June 9 Posted June 9 1 hour ago, WumpusRat said: I want to test it out against enemy groups that normally just curbstomp some of my other characters, like high-end Carnies, Malta, or Arachnos. We'll see how that goes tonight. I've only tried psionic armor on a tank, but of those mobs you listed, the only one that truly provided issues was Arachnos and since they've added some toxic resistance to the set it hasn't been terrible. You'll definitely want to build for 100% recharge debuff resist (or close to it) as the set partially relies on it's clickable sustains and the web nades can absolutely floor your recharge. The only time I ran into issues and got killed was when aggroing 2 mobs of Arachnos at +4/8x. I suspect that on a team you'd likely have enough additional buffs that it shouldn't be an issue. While not common outside of the shadow shard TFs, the Soldiers of Rularuu are another tough mob that can be problematic for psionic armor because of the heavy debuffs and toxic damage. Outside of the endurance drain, Carnies and Malta weren't very problematic, though I would target and kill the sapper as quickly as possible. My testing was with psionic/MA tank and did include alpha/destiny incarnates. 3 hours ago, Sigma7 said: I tested with DM/PSI and ELEC/PSI no incarnates and +1/8 was barely doable for me with a lot of death. I'm starting to think I'm doing something very wrong. I'm going to go ahead and post screenshots of the builds I'm using here if anybody wants to chime in on why my performance is so subpar compared to other players for this armor. If my performance is that much below what you guys are getting in here then there may be no point in me even testing at all. I think that part of the problem for stalkers/scrappers/sentinels is that aside from the lower resist values, you're also getting lower regen rates due to lower max HP cap and similarly lower absorb shield values. I've always found defensive sets to perform better than resist sets for survivability on those ATs. Psionic armor doesn't quite have as high resists to begin with because it's also trying to leverage other things for survival like like the absorb shield, regen, and some defense (though defense isn't very effective due to no DDR). This isn't as big of an issue for tanks/brutes who have higher max HP caps and base resist values, but it's a bigger issue for the other ATs that don't have that advantage. The result is that psionic armor usually can't take alpha strikes as easily outside of tanks/brutes, but take this with a grain of salt as I've only truly tested psi armor on a tank, the rest is mostly extrapolating and experience playing other primarily resist sets on stalkers/scrappers/sentinels. You could aim to get better set bonuses on your stalker, but without having access to mids, it's harder to plan out on test server through trial/error. Consider maybe slotting some of the winter attack sets in to leverage and get more defense. This won't really help in prolonged fights against debuffing mobs, but it can take some of the additional sting out of the alpha strikes when fewer initial attacks get through. Even though my psi/MA tank would hit soft cap positional defenses with Storm Kick, Arachnos would easily debuff that defense into the negatives within a few seconds of fighting so YMMV with going for defensive set bonuses, but try it out and see if it helps. I would particularly suggest getting soul mastery on your stalker and grabbing Moonbeam (great single target DPS and with quick snipe it's easy to use in fights) and more importantly, Shadow Meld. Between the cycling Psychokinetic Barrier, Memento Mori, and Shadow Meld (along with the regen from Devour Psyche), you should be a lot more survivable. Get as much +recharge slotted into your build as possible also to get those powers up quicker. 1
WumpusRat Posted June 9 Posted June 9 1 hour ago, Warshades said: I've only tried psionic armor on a tank, but of those mobs you listed, the only one that truly provided issues was Arachnos and since they've added some toxic resistance to the set it hasn't been terrible. You'll definitely want to build for 100% recharge debuff resist (or close to it) as the set partially relies on it's clickable sustains and the web nades can absolutely floor your recharge. The only time I ran into issues and got killed was when aggroing 2 mobs of Arachnos at +4/8x. I suspect that on a team you'd likely have enough additional buffs that it shouldn't be an issue. While not common outside of the shadow shard TFs, the Soldiers of Rularuu are another tough mob that can be problematic for psionic armor because of the heavy debuffs and toxic damage. Outside of the endurance drain, Carnies and Malta weren't very problematic, though I would target and kill the sapper as quickly as possible. My testing was with psionic/MA tank and did include alpha/destiny incarnates. I generally don't try to build for recharge resist all that much. I have a fairly "standard" build I'll go with for testing, just covering all the bases and getting resists to a certain level, etc. Then just seeing how the build holds up against various types of enemy mobs. I always run without incarnate stuff (though I do kit them out with IOs, including ATOs, but almost never with purple or full pvp sets, since I want to go with something that's more "easily available" rather than "this is my final be-all, end-all build). But it should be interesting. And yeah, for someone with status protections, Malta generally isn't a big deal outside of the sappers. Longbow and Arachnos can be a bit problematic with the sheer number of -recharge, -resist, -def, and -regen debuffs they slap you with. I remember jumping into an Arachnos mission at one point on one of my characters and being hit with so much -rech that my powers that normally recharged in 4-5 seconds were showing they had over a minute to recharge. I think I had something like -800% rech on me at one point.
Wavicle Posted June 9 Posted June 9 4 hours ago, Sigma7 said: I tested with DM/PSI and ELEC/PSI no incarnates and +1/8 was barely doable for me with a lot of death. I'm starting to think I'm doing something very wrong. I'm going to go ahead and post screenshots of the builds I'm using here if anybody wants to chime in on why my performance is so subpar compared to other players for this armor. If my performance is that much below what you guys are getting in here then there may be no point in me even testing at all. EDIT: I was doing Grandville paper missions with Malta, Carnies and Council. Build looks fine to me. Try to get DP to 10 stacks quickly, and then keep it there. Get Psychokinetic Barrier to 3 stacks and keep it there. Use MM in bad situations. 1 Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
BrandX Posted June 9 Posted June 9 (edited) 11 hours ago, Sigma7 said: I tested with DM/PSI and ELEC/PSI no incarnates and +1/8 was barely doable for me with a lot of death. I'm starting to think I'm doing something very wrong. I'm going to go ahead and post screenshots of the builds I'm using here if anybody wants to chime in on why my performance is so subpar compared to other players for this armor. If my performance is that much below what you guys are getting in here then there may be no point in me even testing at all. EDIT: I was doing Grandville paper missions with Malta, Carnies and Council. /spoiler /spoiler Here's my build for a Scrapper if it helps give you ideas. Edited June 9 by BrandX
Xandyr Posted June 9 Posted June 9 Any idea when all this goes Live? What you wanted to know about Bio, but never asked - Tanker - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)
Wavicle Posted June 9 Posted June 9 Just now, Xandyr said: Any idea when all this goes Live? I don’t think there’s a set date, but I’m guessing 2-4 more weeks. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
twozerofoxtrot Posted June 9 Posted June 9 Not sure how to feel about the AoI change for Sents and Stalkers on build 6. I'm assuming this is because max HP pools are lower but I can't help wonder if the change might have come to leash their AoE damage as well. Will have to test, but on my Sent at least incoming melee damage was absolutely not an issue. And having that extra puddle damage on mez resists was nice.
Lazarillo Posted June 9 Posted June 9 The skippable power got changed to another power that's still gettin' skipped. But really no "Minimal FX" options, even for Hide, still?
BrandX Posted June 9 Posted June 9 1 minute ago, Lazarillo said: The skippable power got changed to another power that's still gettin' skipped. But really no "Minimal FX" options, even for Hide, still? AoI is a good defensive power. It still has chances to do -Resist. The damage it did do wasn't all that. It's real damage came from confused enemies, not it's lowly damage for uneffected enemies. So, -DMG may be nice.
tricon Posted June 9 Posted June 9 (edited) I have now tested a Ice/Psi Scrapper, a Electrical/Psi Stalker and 2 Brutes, one with EM/Psi and WM/Psi and then a Tank with Psi/Fiery. Playing the Brutes and Tanks was very comfortable. Thanks to the higher resist, with a better absorb shield and higher regen the whole thing was very quiet and a lot had to happen to pose a danger at all. If you really got into trouble you have with Memento Mori a 2nd chance. Considering the have 20-30 higher resist points that made a lot of difference, so it was easier to regenerate. Even if you run into larger groups e.g. from the Sister Solaris incarnate arc it was easy to get through it. I tried the Support Hybrid to have a better Aura of Insanity/Madness but I don't think you really need it. The extra dmg from assault seems to be better. My slotting was 5 Coercive Persuasion with the cupid confuse IO. The whole thing has proven to be very effective. The ring indication of Barrier after 3 stacks is very helpful. The biggest problem is to keep track when you need to refresh the stacks of Psyche in the middle of a fight. The cone is not ideal but it dosen"t really bother me either. The most annoying debuff on you was recovery, even with 60% resist it was very easy to get floored to zero vs certain mobs. Higher +hit from Impose Presense was good but it got really interesting after I added Focused Accuracy to help with tohit debuffs. I ike the Rebirth destiny for the extra regeneration on top of what we got. Maybe the Ageless destiny is a better offensiv option if you want to keep a bit more oomph from the epic pools. For Tanks and Brutes this is a good Armor set but I don't know If I would use it for Scrappers and Stalkers, the have the better options and we don't need to even talk about the "mssing" taunt aura. Sentinel no clue... Edited June 9 by tricon
FupDup Posted June 9 Posted June 9 Definitely sad to see the psi damage go away. Other armors already have -dam effects but no we of them add bonus psi damage for the user (it was unique). .
Wavicle Posted June 9 Posted June 9 3 minutes ago, FupDup said: Definitely sad to see the psi damage go away. Other armors already have -dam effects but no we of them add bonus psi damage for the user (it was unique). Only for stalkers and sentinels, the others still get it Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
FupDup Posted June 9 Posted June 9 1 minute ago, Wavicle said: Only for stalkers and sentinels, the others still get it Everyone should get it is my point. .
Developer Captain Powerhouse Posted June 9 Developer Posted June 9 46 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said: Not sure how to feel about the AoI change for Sents and Stalkers on build 6. I'm assuming this is because max HP pools are lower but I can't help wonder if the change might have come to leash their AoE damage as well. They still take self damage from using it. But both Stalkers and Sentinels are not supposed to get damage auras. Sentinels can get access to them on their epic pools, but not on armors.
FupDup Posted June 9 Posted June 9 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said: They still take self damage from using it. But both Stalkers and Sentinels are not supposed to get damage auras. Sentinels can get access to them on their epic pools, but not on armors. If the rest of the set were designed to be more "range agnostic" on those ATs then I'd actually agree (i.e. I actually strongly support things like Sents getting Terra Firma in place of Mud Pots on Stone Armor), but AOI/AOM and MM both want you to be in the thick of things anyways. This is just a direct downgraded version rather than a sidegrade like most other aura replacements. Edited June 9 by FupDup 1 .
Sigma7 Posted June 10 Posted June 10 1. First of all thank everybody for responding to my earlier post to help give me some context on my build so that I can be a bit more intentional about my testing. 2. It feels like this set is being designed for tanks first and foremost and then being distributed to other AT's. Observing this development process, it also feels like the developers want to set a baseline with the tank performance and then hopefully make at specific adjustments for the squishier ST's. My hope is that Stalkers scrappers and Sentinels will have their specific grievances with this set addressed before it goes live. 3. With that said here are my Stalker grievances. A. Front end defense at the beginning of the fight needs work. Using the electric psi armor build mentioned earlier, It is very ez to die verry quickly out of hide vs +1/8 Grandville paper missions. The alpha strike from mobs is overwhelmingly punishing from mobs even with Psychokinetic Barrier and Shadow Meld active before I start the battle. I don't actually want to consider shadow meld for the testing because I want to evaluate the armor on its own merits without complicating the matter with things from Incarnate or epic pools. B. Stalkers don't have time to be building and maintaining defense stacks. Building stacks for psychokinetic barrier or devour psyche is a gameplay mechanic that is better suited for a class that runs from one crowd to the next and quick succession. The pace of Stalkers is different and this stack building mechanic is too time consuming for a class that is very vulnerable to alpha strikes in this armor and generally moves between mobs at a different pace. C. The basic defense resistance and absorption numbers on this set are too low for stalkers. I made a Elec/Bio stalker to compare to the Elec/Psi stalker I'm testing and the difference in survivability is immediately obvious. The comparison seems pretty straight forward: Ablative Carapace/ Psychokinetic barrier Hardened Carapace/Psychic Wall & Psionic Shield Evolving Armor/ precognition DNA siphon/ Devour Psyche I don't see how the discrepancy in the numbers behind these respective armors is justified at least for Stalkers. Quick Bio/Psi comparison: Ablative Carapace is giving me 1204.76 Absorption points with preventative medicine 4 slotted but Psycho kinetic barrier is Giving me 731.75 absorption points with preventative medicine six slotted. Stalker adjustment Suggestions: 1. make precognition a toggle for Stalkers and give it increased defense numbers. 2. Make Psychokinetic barrier give all stacks on 1 cast and increase absorption. 1 1
Sigma7 Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) As for the new auto rez within 45 seconds feature of MM... It does address a problem I have been having and I can confirm that it works, however this fix seems to be an implicit admission that this tier 9 defense ability is such that you can still die within a minute of using it which I believe is a big problem. I would prefer that MM be changed such that it is unlikely that I am going to die within a minute of using it. Edited June 10 by Sigma7
tricon Posted June 10 Posted June 10 Well I would trade the -dmg for Stalkers for a +dmg. The migration is quite modest. Vs. a Greater Devoured or vs a Cimeroran minion so I would prefer more to do more damage then getting a lower amount of damage. if the are defeated the do not pose any more danger 2 1
BrandX Posted June 10 Posted June 10 20 hours ago, Sigma7 said: 1. First of all thank everybody for responding to my earlier post to help give me some context on my build so that I can be a bit more intentional about my testing. 2. It feels like this set is being designed for tanks first and foremost and then being distributed to other AT's. Observing this development process, it also feels like the developers want to set a baseline with the tank performance and then hopefully make at specific adjustments for the squishier ST's. My hope is that Stalkers scrappers and Sentinels will have their specific grievances with this set addressed before it goes live. 3. With that said here are my Stalker grievances. A. Front end defense at the beginning of the fight needs work. Using the electric psi armor build mentioned earlier, It is very ez to die verry quickly out of hide vs +1/8 Grandville paper missions. The alpha strike from mobs is overwhelmingly punishing from mobs even with Psychokinetic Barrier and Shadow Meld active before I start the battle. I don't actually want to consider shadow meld for the testing because I want to evaluate the armor on its own merits without complicating the matter with things from Incarnate or epic pools. B. Stalkers don't have time to be building and maintaining defense stacks. Building stacks for psychokinetic barrier or devour psyche is a gameplay mechanic that is better suited for a class that runs from one crowd to the next and quick succession. The pace of Stalkers is different and this stack building mechanic is too time consuming for a class that is very vulnerable to alpha strikes in this armor and generally moves between mobs at a different pace. C. The basic defense resistance and absorption numbers on this set are too low for stalkers. I made a Elec/Bio stalker to compare to the Elec/Psi stalker I'm testing and the difference in survivability is immediately obvious. The comparison seems pretty straight forward: Ablative Carapace/ Psychokinetic barrier Hardened Carapace/Psychic Wall & Psionic Shield Evolving Armor/ precognition DNA siphon/ Devour Psyche I don't see how the discrepancy in the numbers behind these respective armors is justified at least for Stalkers. Quick Bio/Psi comparison: Ablative Carapace is giving me 1204.76 Absorption points with preventative medicine 4 slotted but Psycho kinetic barrier is Giving me 731.75 absorption points with preventative medicine six slotted. Stalker adjustment Suggestions: 1. make precognition a toggle for Stalkers and give it increased defense numbers. 2. Make Psychokinetic barrier give all stacks on 1 cast and increase absorption. Something to be noted...on your comparison... Psychokinetic Barrier gives Resistance to -Regen, -Recovery, -End, and -Recharge, and it stacks. These are things Ablative Carapace doesn't give.
BrandX Posted June 10 Posted June 10 Okay. Love the set myself, if it went as is, I'd go with it. Psychic Wall: Standard Toggle Resist Power. Lethal weakness can be made up for (wasn't able to hit cap myself on Scrapper) so I don't worry as much about this weakness. Psionic Shield: Standard Toggle Resist Power. Nice having some Toxic Resist added into the power. As someone who used Electric Armor a lot, I can say Toxic resist is ouchie with just a couple of IOs to give 8% Toxic resist. Mask Presence: Stealth Toggle. Gives Ninjitsu's critical from hide. I feel it should have the AOE defense. And honestly I'd rather have the AOE defense that the crit from hide. Love having the stealth ability myself 🙂 I do like how it gives more defense while hidden, to get in (not capped on AOE myself, so still a risk) while stealthed tho. Impenetrable Mind: Toggle Mez Protection and Psi Resist. Love it as is. Only change I'd do is give it a minimal FX option, or the eye glow of Fade/Soul Noir. Devour Psyche: Thought I'd hate the cone, but haven't had any issues with it honestly. I don't try to line up for max use, I just use it and it builds up and I can maintain it easy enough. Doesn't take Accuracy, but it says it has AOE and Psychic Defense. Not sure what that means on it. Also, having the -Regen is helpful on the hard targets. Psychokinetic Barrier: A click Absorb. With some added status resists. Been sticking to one arc, no real end sappers faced so far, but has felt fine. Precognition: Passive Defense and +Perception. Nothing to say here. It works 🙂 Aura of Insanity: Toggle Random Mez. I love it. I paid more attention to the damage aspect of the power after the Stalker/Sentinel change to Aura of Madness and I don't know if they're missing much other than on the possible feel. Mine's slotted for damage (due to Cupid's Crush) and the damage was low and the targets hit with damage seemed to be 0-2. Felt like it was more effective than Oppressive Gloom felt on Dark Armor. Feels like a good defensive power that changes things up for defense. Memento Mori: I love a rez power (concepty) will say I used it more often before with the adaptive recharge. It did provide a good ON NO hit before dying when surrounded and while I didn't die, knowing the rez aspect stays around for 45 seconds after use, is great, for if it doesn't save you. Again overall, I love the set. 🙂 Changes I'd like... Little more Psychic Resist in the Psi Armor set (Impenetrable Mind or Psionic Shield could take it), kinda like how'd I like to see more Negative Resist in Dark Armor. Impenetrable Mind getting Min FX option and/or Soul Noir eye glow option. Mask Presence getting AOE defense...I'd sacrifice the crit chance on one attack for it myself.
Wavicle Posted June 10 Posted June 10 29 minutes ago, BrandX said: Devour Psyche: Thought I'd hate the cone, but haven't had any issues with it honestly. I don't try to line up for max use, I just use it and it builds up and I can maintain it easy enough. Doesn't take Accuracy, but it says it has AOE and Psychic Defense. What? I haven't seen that. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
BrandX Posted June 10 Posted June 10 2 minutes ago, Wavicle said: What? I haven't seen that. I was looking at the description/info of the power while it was on my tray, and it says AOE and Psychic Defense. I'll try to screen capture it later while not busy if wanted. This was on a scrapper.
Wavicle Posted June 10 Posted June 10 8 minutes ago, BrandX said: I was looking at the description/info of the power while it was on my tray, and it says AOE and Psychic Defense. I'll try to screen capture it later while not busy if wanted. This was on a scrapper. You might have been looking at Precognition? I don’t think Devour Psyche has any Defense attached. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
BrandX Posted June 10 Posted June 10 26 minutes ago, Wavicle said: You might have been looking at Precognition? I don’t think Devour Psyche has any Defense attached. Under attack types it says AOE defense and Psionic defense
Wavicle Posted June 10 Posted June 10 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BrandX said: Under attack types it says AOE defense and Psionic defense Oh! I think the ability is autohit… That listing isn’t a buff the power confers, it’s what type of defense works against it. Unless the Debuff part can miss? but it doesn’t take acc… Edited June 10 by Wavicle Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon
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