A controversial topic: is it time to make all items free?

[battlewraith]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

If they said dozens would that suffice?

 

Anything would suffice, lol. It wasn't a gotcha question. 

[JKCarrier]

I have 7 level 50s, plus 1 at 49 who should ding before too long.
Do I win?

[battlewraith]

8 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

I have 7 level 50s, plus 1 at 49 who should ding before too long.
Do I win?

 

Do you think you win? Having a good time? Then it sounds like you win.

It's not a flex or a gotcha question. 

 

What other factual questions about people's playing habits are taboo?

"Do you play any tanks?"

"Wanna show your e-peen, you first!"

"lol?"

[Greycat]

 

Everything *is* free, if you're fine with just spending time waiting for it to drop (or the converters/merits to build up.) 

 

On 6/20/2025 at 8:48 AM, laudwic said:

 

Doesn't that answer the question though?  There is a way to have everything for free, make any character you want, be any level you want, accolades, enhancement sets, just spend some time setting up your character, yet few people are on there.

 

The "Just play on beta" / "And you see nobody plays there" isn't *really* an answer though, because Beta has an issue Live doesn't - it can get wiped or changed at any time. It's Beta. It's meant to be where things get tested (and potentially very screwed up and changed) before going live. *That* would be a much bigger contributing factor to "Why don't people play on Beta," I should think - followed by population - than "Everything's free." 

[Zombra]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

Beta has an issue Live doesn't - it can get wiped or changed at any time.

 

I mean, kind of who cares if you can just make your character again with everything you could ever want, probably in less time than it would take you to get to level 20 on live ...

[battlewraith]

10 minutes ago, Zombra said:

 

I mean, kind of who cares if you can just make your character again with everything you could ever want, probably in less time than it would take you to get to level 20 on live ...

 

So all of the characters you had set up on that server would be gone and you would have to repeat the rigamarole to set each of them up again.

Who would care? People in general. No matter how little or how much time you had invested in that server, you would be paying a penalty for playing there. So there would never be a significant population there, which entails a second penalty--joining a MMORPG and having a single player experience. 

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, Zombra said:

 

I mean, kind of who cares if you can just make your character again with everything you could ever want, probably in less time than it would take you to get to level 20 on live ...

 

Because *youv'e put time into the character,* you've gotten whatever badges. If its the *beta server and can get wiped,* that means your SG and everyone involved it it have also gone away. You cannot just make all that again "with everything you could ever want." There is no restore for the SG base. There is no restore for the friends list. You cannot wave your hand and have all your friends characters back - if THEY want to go through the trouble after a server wipe or massive change. 

 

Or, you know, you can not play on beta and have everything backed up and relatively safe... which is far more appealing to most folks. 

[Zombra]

45 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Because *youv'e put time into the character,* you've gotten whatever badges. If its the *beta server and can get wiped,* that means your SG and everyone involved it it have also gone away. You cannot just make all that again "with everything you could ever want." There is no restore for the SG base. There is no restore for the friends list. You cannot wave your hand and have all your friends characters back - if THEY want to go through the trouble after a server wipe or massive change. Or, you know, you can not play on beta and have everything backed up and relatively safe... which is far more appealing to most folks. 

 

Love that, thank you.  I think that putting time into the character is key here.

[tidge]

5 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Because *youv'e put time into the character,* you've gotten whatever badges. If its the *beta server and can get wiped,* that means your SG and everyone involved it it have also gone away. You cannot just make all that again "with everything you could ever want." There is no restore for the SG base. There is no restore for the friends list. You cannot wave your hand and have all your friends characters back - if THEY want to go through the trouble after a server wipe or massive change. 

 

Or, you know, you can not play on beta and have everything backed up and relatively safe... which is far more appealing to most folks. 

 

The suggestion to use Brainstorm was for people that don't want to play very much but want only level 50+ characters with whatever they want for zero effort or cost.... especially for case when the imagination is providing an unending roster of level 50+ builds, all of which must be insta-50s with full-kits. AFAIK, Brainstorm hasn't had a wipe in quite some time.

 

I have difficulty imagining wanting to invest significant play time in a character and also seeing the game as a 'grind' to the point of actually being unwilling to level up. I must be an inferior player because I use the leveling experience to test out powers and slots, get costumes right, work on macros. 

[battlewraith]

53 minutes ago, tidge said:

I have difficulty imagining

 

This is the crux of the issue. People want different things from the game. There are hardliners that view their playstyle as "the way" and can't relate to anything else, even when people explain it to them repeatedly. They then turn around and act like they've been dissed when they aren't treated as the measure of all things.

 

Note that this discussions was originally about enhancements. Now it's about everything. Being "unwilling to level up" and every other boogeyman hiding in the closet.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

 

This is the crux of the issue. People want different things from the game. There are hardliners that view their playstyle as "the way" and can't relate to anything else, even when people explain it to them repeatedly. They then turn around and act like they've been dissed when they aren't treated as the measure of all things.

 

Note that this discussions was originally about enhancements. Now it's about everything. Being "unwilling to level up" and every other boogeyman hiding in the closet.

 

The game is set up with a reward structure, and the reward structure *is* part of the game. I don't have to imagine that. I can relate to people wanting insta-50s and full-kit builds... and while that is possible, it is not how the game was initally built... even if it is practically achievable, but a player has to engage with the game (not MIDS) some way besides just typing "I want".  I don't care if it is via farming, constant raids, play-through-to-50, or marketeering. Each of those is actually engaging with the game. The lack of imagination being demonstrated IMO that hypothetical players are so superior to the game we actually have that the game has to make it easier for them to get what they want.

 

People who want builds & characters without engaging have Brainstorm. Nothing is holding anybody back except stubbornness about not wanting to engage in the game that everyone else is playing.

 

What is it @battlewraith actually wants from the game?

[JKCarrier]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

This is the crux of the issue. People want different things from the game. There are hardliners that view their playstyle as "the way" and can't relate to anything else, even when people explain it to them repeatedly.

 

The fact that so many people find your playstyle bizarre and incomprehensible is probably a good indication that the game shouldn't be altered to conform to it.
My playstyle is pretty weird, too -- I basically ignore all group content and treat it like a single-player game. If I came on here and started a thread called "Is it time to eliminate all teaming?", I would expect a lil' bit of pushback.

[battlewraith]

9 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

The fact that so many people find your playstyle bizarre and incomprehensible is probably a good indication that the game shouldn't be altered to conform to it

 

Actually it's not. The playstyle I'm describing is not bizarre or incomprehensible at all. It probably relates to people who have been min/maxers, plers, pvpers over the course of the development of the game. If you think it's that weird you probably have not strayed that far out of your own niche. The "so many people" you're referencing is a subset of the forum population, which is a miniscule sliver of the actual playerbase. The people that I've know for a long time that play like me don't bother with the forums aside from things like patch notes and technical questions.

 

46 minutes ago, JKCarrier said:

If I came on here and started a thread called "Is it time to eliminate all teaming?", I would expect a lil' bit of pushback.

 

Sure. But hopefully aside from the sneering kneejerk dismissals and rank incredulity from people who don't understand why you play that way, there would be some actual critical thought. My first question would be "how does teaming negatively impact you experience as a solo player?" Depending on what that circumstance is, maybe there would some fix that could improve the experience for players like you but not sink the boat for everyone else. 

[laudwic]

On 7/26/2025 at 6:27 PM, Greycat said:

 

Everything *is* free, if you're fine with just spending time waiting for it to drop (or the converters/merits to build up.) 

 

 

The "Just play on beta" / "And you see nobody plays there" isn't *really* an answer though, because Beta has an issue Live doesn't - it can get wiped or changed at any time. It's Beta. It's meant to be where things get tested (and potentially very screwed up and changed) before going live. *That* would be a much bigger contributing factor to "Why don't people play on Beta," I should think - followed by population - than "Everything's free." 

 

So you spend some time recreating the character or your newest latest and greatest concept while taking advantage of the latest testing change or patch to the game.   It isn't much more time than a respec and people clamored for a free one of those following the last update.  (As if we don't get enough of those for free anyways, they are readily available as recipes in the auction house, or, gasp, actually play the content to earn one.)

 

I disagree that this is a significant barrier for beta. 

Edited July 28 by laudwic
Hit submit too early. Added last, stand alone, sentence

[Yomo Kimyata]

I've come to realize that there are two arguments that really get under my skin, and they seem to be on opposite sides of a theme which feels like a contradiction to me, so I've been really thinking about what they have in common and why they grind my gears.

 

1.  "If you want everything for free, go to Brainstorm and play there.  It already exists."  This is certainly true, and I see all these arguments about why people are afraid their character will get wiped.  For me, the reason I wouldn't want to play on Brainstorm is because I would HAVE to play solo.  And I think the aspect of this argument that grinds me is that the assumption is made that if I want to do this, I have to put myself outside the system and therefore I am not a part of the community.

 

2.  "If you want things to be more difficult, make things more difficult.  Play with SOs, or with no enhancements.  Play blindfolded and left-handed."  This is certainly true, but there is no system in place to enforce it.  If I want to play hardcore no-death mode for example, I can't play it within the game.  I have to put myself outside the system and therefore am not a part of the community.  I can see that this is similar to roleplaying -- you can always roleplay, but the system won't enforce mandatory roleplay (although I certainly have gotten a lot of negative feedback if I play on Everlasting and don't roleplay, but that's another kettle of fish entirely.)

 

I see the theme now, and I understand that is my personal take on things, but it also explains to me why I try to put so much care into trying to figure out what is best for the system and for the greatest number of players, and why I get so confused when people /jranger for the simple reason, "ME NO WANT THAT."  I think increasing the number of options that are supported by the system and the community would be great, but I don't have an easy solution.  Certainly not one that is going to please everyone.

 

*shrugs*  self-knowledge works for me, at least!

[ZeeHero]

I disagree with this just as much as I disagree with making things more expensive and harder to get.

[UltraAlt]

On 7/24/2025 at 7:18 AM, tidge said:

Sorry, I was thinking the suggestion was that the game would automatically gift the seed money to new accounts, not other players/characters.

 

I agree that the suggestion was for the game to do it, but I think that would be more likely to incentivize players to make multiple accounts than other players providing it.

 

On 7/24/2025 at 7:18 AM, tidge said:

it looks a lot like the make everything free request is mostly supported by players that simply don't want to bother with asking or accumulating via play

 

Agreed.

This is much like the payers that want to be able to automatically defeat everything so that they can read the game like a novel.

 

On 7/24/2025 at 7:18 AM, tidge said:

I can believe that a player wants to create an unending stream of alts, all full-kitted with wagyu IO sets at level 50+, but that feels like more of a grind to me than simply taking one new character on a 1-50 journey to learn how the powers work, establish macros, etc. I mean... if you already know what a Superior Winter's set is going to do in a power at level 50, I don't see what the rush is to get to that point.

 

Some players well ...

 

 

[lemming]

I'm against the make stuff free, and make stuff more expensive.  I think we're in a decent medium ground currently.