Cut the filler from the Synapse TF (spoilers)

[Psi-bolt]

Currently, the Synapse Task Force has 10 door missions, five of which require you to defeat all enemies.   The remaining ones include 4 Boss room fights (Bertha, Long Tom, Clockwork Lord, and Clockwork King) and one rescue the captives.   Most of this is just filler and the TF could be pared down without losing much, if any, of the story.

 

I have great faith in the developers' ability to rewrite this TF, but I would offer the following.  It seems that the TF is in two parts: 

 

• Part 1 is foiling the Clockwork's plan to divert Steel Canyon's power to the Clockwork King;
  • First defeat all to investigate what's happening;
  • Find out what the plan is from Positron;
  • Run around to three substations to stop Clockwork;
• Part 2 is tracking down and defeating the Clockwork King.
  • Having stopped the plot to divert Steel's power, Synapse wants you to Patrol and then track down King.
  • After the first patrol, you get sent to an office building to a defeat all because your scans showed a high concentration of Clockwork
  • After clearing out the building you get sent on another Patrol to find Headquarters which is unsuccessful.   Synapse then hears about a big Clockwork named Bertha going into an abandoned office building.  Upon defeating Bertha you find a distinctive Clockwork piece.  
  • Synapse sends you to the place the part comes from.  Upon defeating Long Tom and rescuing the Foreperson, he tells you that they sent the piece to only three locations.   
  • The remainder of the TF is going to those three warehouses where you first rescue hostages, defeat the Clockwork Lord and finally, the Clockwork King.  Babbage come over to play after the Lord.

 

That's how it stands now.  There is a lot of filler even in the story.  The first mission isn't described as a defeat all and I think if it were instead an investigation mission or a Boss room kill it would be better.  Next, I think you could combine all the substations into one mission.  There is no story based reason it has to be three missions.   That could eliminate 2 more defeat all missions.   The last defeat all in the abandoned office is likewise filler.  It is not the headquarters, it's just a lead that turned out to be nothing.   Getting rid of that would reduce another mission.  Perhaps eliminate the first patrol and have the second one lead to Bertha.    

 

For the remainder, Bertha is fine, but I would put the Foreman in Long Tom's mission into her room.  Then you can get the part and the info about the three warehouses in the same mission.   The rest of the TF could proceed as normal.  

 

That would leave it with one defeat all mission and six total missions.   Of course, the original could be in Ouroboros.    And yes, after running this three times this weekend, it's nearly driven me insane, but I still think folks would enjoy a snappier TF.  Reduce the merits accordingly.

[Rudra]

Just wait until you run the story arc the TF overlaps with. It is longer than the TF and is the exact same missions. (Other than the Clockwork King at the end? Been a long time since I ran that arc.)

 

(Edit: What makes it longer is it has missions the TF removed.)

 

(Edit again: No, there is no Babbage spawn in the story arc. That is a TF thing.)

 

Edited Monday at 05:36 PM by Rudra

[TheMoneyMaker]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Just wait until you run the story arc the TF overlaps with. It is longer than the TF and is the exact same missions. (Other than the Clockwork King at the end? Been a long time since I ran that arc.)

 

(Edit: What makes it longer is it has missions the TF removed.)

 

(Edit again: No, there is no Babbage spawn in the story arc. That is a TF thing.)

 

The other differences between the TF and regular arc is that there is no locked in TF mode until it's complete so you can do other mission content in between, including joining other teams for whatever content they are doing. There's also the lack of the TF-associated badge(s), and the ability to visit the START vendor for whatever you might want in the middle of the arc while in the TF you can only do this in Pocket D.

[Skyhawke]

Synapse always feels like a double edged sword to me. On one hand, if you get on a good team it can be done in  @45 minutes and for the number of merits (50?) you get, it's well worth it. Especially if it's the WST. On the other hand, a mediocre or worse team will make that TF very very painful and long. I've seen both sides of the coin and every time I've had the "They need to shorten this" thought, I remember the flip side and go back to "Meh, it's fine" train of thought. If it was shortened, though, definitely lower the merits accordingly. 

[Renatos1023]

100% support this, I've always thought it should be shorter too. This is the 1 TF that I never look forward to doing on any of my characters, but I want the badge for the accolade. The number of kill alls is annoying, plus the endurance issues that most low-level toons have is compounded by all the -end in the Clockwork attacks which really just makes the TF as a whole unenjoyable. 

[Chance Jackson]

8 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Synapse always feels like a double edged sword to me. On one hand, if you get on a good team it can be done in  @45 minutes and for the number of merits (50?) you get, it's well worth it. Especially if it's the WST. On the other hand, a mediocre or worse team will make that TF very very painful and long. I've seen both sides of the coin and every time I've had the "They need to shorten this" thought, I remember the flip side and go back to "Meh, it's fine" train of thought. If it was shortened, though, definitely lower the merits accordingly. 

Shorten the TF & make the OG available in Ouro

[MTeague]

<Angry grandpa voice>  Durn whippersnappers!  Back in my day, we ran Doc Quarterfield without Mission Teleporters, or Base Teleporters!  And we wiped left and right!  And we liked it!  We liked it right fine!

 

Kidding aside.  Why do you feel Synapse TF should be shortened?  Building a comparison list between Synapse and several other TF's, listing out total number of missions, total number of kill-all missions, etc would probably build a better case for consideration.

[lemming]

This is a topic that has been discussed before, though I think most people dislike the multiple kill all missions that are the same mission as the one before.

Synapse is the main reason some people grab the Invader badge for the accolade.

 

Dr Q often gets mentioned, but the nice thing with Dr Q is that a level 50 can blow thru it, while Synapse you are more limited in scope.  There a couple things I'd want to change to Dr Q, but Synapse is more a rewrite version like Posi.  (And Synapse is needed if you want to get TFC without turning red for Invader)

[Psi-bolt]

7 hours ago, MTeague said:

Kidding aside.  Why do you feel Synapse TF should be shortened?  Building a comparison list between Synapse and several other TF's, listing out total number of missions, total number of kill-all missions, etc would probably build a better case for consideration.

 

I think most Task Forces are best when they tell a tight story told in a reasonable (4-6) number of missions.   The Freedom Phalanx TF series saw two of its TFs basically cut in half:  Positron and Sister Psyche/Yin.  This made both much more reasonable to jump in, play for an hour or less and then log off.   I think we see that the shorter Task Forces get much more traction from players.

 

Synapse and the Shadow Shard TFs are just extremely long slogs from a time where the devs thought a group of friends would treat them as a multi-session campaign.    That's not how the game developed.  

 

As for comparing the other TFs, here are the number of missions in each of the Freedom Phalanx series:

 

• Positron Part 1 - 4 missions (No Defeat Alls)
• Positron Part 2 - 5 missions (No Defeat Alls)
• Yin - 4 missions (No Defeat Alls, but to be fair the pathing of the mission encourages kill most runs)
• Citadel - 9 missions (5 Defeat Alls)
• Manticore - 6 missions (2 Defeat Alls)
• Numina - 6 missions (1 Defeat All)

The only one that is really comparable to Synapse is Citadel but you're dealing with higher level characters, a more reasonable villain group (Council) and the maps are shorter.  Even then, I think that Citadel could lose 2-3 missions itself.   That TF has you do a lot of running back and forth between IP and Talos.   

Edited 20 hours ago by Psi-bolt

[Kaika]

You know the funny thing is, in the early days of CoH synapse was known as the "fast" TF. I do agree though it's long overdue for a proper revamp, 45 mins to a hour and a half of end draining enemies at low levels, where every mission is practically the same thing gets old.

Edited 19 hours ago by Kaika

[Ghost]

Yes the end drain and kill alls get old - but it’s only 1 TF.

The majority can be run in under 40minutes, not speeding.

Some in under 30.

 

Why take away the one ?

 

I think the simpler ask is to have it removed from the accolade chain - then no one would feel “forced” to do it.

[OverkillEngine]

Alternately, reduce/cap the size of the map size of the kill-all missions to make them less of a tedious slog.

The entire TF is overpacked with eye-bleeding time-waster filler from nearly all angles. The only good part is at least it is warehouse and lab maps instead of orangebagel or purple cake caves.

  

13 hours ago, Psi-bolt said:

The only one that is really comparable to Synapse is Citadel but you're dealing with higher level characters, a more reasonable villain group (Council) and the maps are shorter.  Even then, I think that Citadel could lose 2-3 missions itself.   That TF has you do a lot of running back and forth between IP and Talos.   

Citadel is a bit of a slog too, and a huge part of that is the maps. Cutting the map size a bit would do wonders. 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by OverkillEngine

[Rikmach]

There is, of course, another option:  Remake it from the ground up, like Positron's TF.

I vaguely recall reading that Rebirth has already done that, though no idea on the details.

 

Something worth considering-  Really, all the Issue 0 Task Forces are a bit long in the tooth these days, so remaking them with the new tech available might be a good idea.

[mistagoat]

I'd like to see it given the Posi treatment. Make it 2 parts and leave the original version in the crystal so it can still be done by any who would prefer.

Currently it feels like a slog and I avoid this TF if it's not the thing of the week.

[skoryy]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

Why take away the one ?

 

It wouldn't be "taken away," it'll be gathering dust in Ouro with Sister Psyche and the original Posi.

[Psi-bolt]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

Yes the end drain and kill alls get old - but it’s only 1 TF.

The majority can be run in under 40minutes, not speeding.

Some in under 30.

 

Why take away the one ?

 

I think the simpler ask is to have it removed from the accolade chain - then no one would feel “forced” to do it.

 

Who said anything about taking it away?   

 

You can still do the old Positron TF and the Sister Psyche TF in Ouro which functionally work exactly like doing a TF.    Same with this.  Streamline the TF, put the original in Ouro.   The old one will still get done.  I have personally run both the old Positron and Sister Psyche ones on multiple characters.  But nearly every hero needs to do this TF for the accolade, so why not streamline it.

[Psi-bolt]

1 hour ago, Rikmach said:

There is, of course, another option:  Remake it from the ground up, like Positron's TF.

 

This would be my preferred option too.   Personally, I would just write a shorter snappier story ala the Yin TF that is 5 missions. 

[Ghost]

40 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

Who said anything about taking it away?   

 

You can still do the old Positron TF and the Sister Psyche TF in Ouro which functionally work exactly like doing a TF.    Same with this.  Streamline the TF, put the original in Ouro.   The old one will still get done.  I have personally run both the old Positron and Sister Psyche ones on multiple characters.  But nearly every hero needs to do this TF for the accolade, so why not streamline it.

I understand the accolade argument.  I’m saying wouldn’t it be easier to remove it as a requirement, and just leave the TF alone?

Then nothing would have to be changed.  People would only run it if they wanted to.

 

Personally, I’d much rather run it than Citadel - but I’m sure if Synapse is hidden away, the next one on everyone’s radar to “fix” will be Citadel.

 

 

[Psi-bolt]

9 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I understand the accolade argument.  I’m saying wouldn’t it be easier to remove it as a requirement, and just leave the TF alone?

Then nothing would have to be changed.  People would only run it if they wanted to.

 

Personally, I’d much rather run it than Citadel - but I’m sure if Synapse is hidden away, the next one on everyone’s radar to “fix” will be Citadel.

 

 

 

I think having to do the whole Freedom Phalanx makes sense and the TFs are introductions to the members of the Freedom Phalanx, so I think it's fine to have to do them.  I think it should be changed because all the old TFs should be changed.  TFs should be no more than 6 missions or so.   Citadel would absolutely be next on my list, if I were the devs.

 

I mean the story of Synapse can be told in one sentence, "Stop the Clockwork King's plot to siphon power from Steel Canyon and defeat the King."  Citadel can be described as "Stop Vandal's plot to use misuse Citadel's technology."   Neither of those require 9-10 missions to accomplish.   They were created in a time when there was a LOT less content.   Basically none of the TFs that came later were built this way.  See e.g. KHTF, the ITF, LGTF, etc.  

[Ghost]

43 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

 

I think having to do the whole Freedom Phalanx makes sense and the TFs are introductions to the members of the Freedom Phalanx, so I think it's fine to have to do them.  I think it should be changed because all the old TFs should be changed.  TFs should be no more than 6 missions or so.   Citadel would absolutely be next on my list, if I were the devs.

 

I mean the story of Synapse can be told in one sentence, "Stop the Clockwork King's plot to siphon power from Steel Canyon and defeat the King."  Citadel can be described as "Stop Vandal's plot to use misuse Citadel's technology."   Neither of those require 9-10 missions to accomplish.   They were created in a time when there was a LOT less content.   Basically none of the TFs that came later were built this way.  See e.g. KHTF, the ITF, LGTF, etc.  

Fair enough