Ninjas

[Ultimo]

So, I've been leveling a Ninjas Mastermind for the first time, and I'm finding the experience... underwelming.  I paired them with Kinetics, since the Kin heal is best with melee pets.

 

What I'm finding is that they're really squishy, dying in the time it takes my heal to recharge.  They also don't act like Ninjas, and neither does the Mastermind.  I know other MM pets got slight revamps recently (Mercs are awesome now), so I think Ninjas could use a bit of love too.

 

Some ideas:

For the Mastermind himself... perhaps something other than just a bow?  Perhaps have one bow attack, one sword attack, one blinding powder?

For the Ninjas... they should ALL have the capacity to be invisible.  The Oni could turn into wisps of smoke, perhaps?

The Ninjas need to do more damage if they're going to be so squishy.

One thing that seems common with Ninjas in the comics (eg. Wolverine, Daredevil, etc.), they tend to use attacks and things that bind or hamper their enemy.  Wolverine is constantly filled with arrows on ropes and the like.  They also seem to be really NUMEROUS.  Perhaps there should be something like Gang War for the Ninjas?

 

In any case, I think that Ninjas could use some love.  What do you all think?  What would you do to improve them?  Not just performance, but presentation?

[Force Redux]

Ninjas already got a rework and are in a good place right now. I just don't think Kinetics is a good match for them. 

[Erratic1]

Now I am wondering how Ninja/Marine would be. Darn it!

[evetsleep]

Ninja's are ok on damage honestly and kinetics just won't do a good job keeping the cardboard dragons alive.  They do far better with a secondary that can reinforce their defenses.  I personally like time, trick arrow, dark, and traps.  Honorable mention for marine since that gem goes with everything.

[Black_Assassin]

Yeah, but ninjas on meth is funny. I like my ninja/kin because warp speed ninjas at the damage cap is hilarious, I just have to keep it to +0 or +1 for them to survive. If they removed the level discrepancies found in the the pets, I would love my ninja/kin even more. 

[evetsleep]

44 minutes ago, Black_Assassin said:

Yeah, but ninjas on meth is funny. I like my ninja/kin because warp speed ninjas at the damage cap is hilarious, I just have to keep it to +0 or +1 for them to survive. If they removed the level discrepancies found in the the pets, I would love my ninja/kin even more. 

If you want to see funny, run zombie/kin (I have one named Crack Zombie).  Zombies on speed boost is ridiculous and their resistance and debuffs keep them reasonably alive.

[Dixa]

ninja fine. great even. kin is the problem

 

your secondary is more important than your primary for mm and if you really want to feel powerful marine can't be beat right now. 

[kelika2]

nin/cold

nin/dark

nin/ta

your secondary needs +def or -tohit

you can try nin/ff if you want but you will be way over defense later on

dont try radiation because the toggles have a small radius

[TygerDarkstorm]

On 8/3/2025 at 1:01 AM, Force Redux said:

Ninjas already got a rework and are in a good place right now. I just don't think Kinetics is a good match for them. 

This--ninjas already got a rework which put them in a really good place and are actually more durable than they used to be. You also need to make sure you take a personal attack (at least one, but up to all 3 if you have room in your build) as this gives the ninjas a boost (I believe it's a higher chance to crit, but it's been a bit since I've played a ninja MM).

 

As others have already mentioned, planning your secondary is fairly important for MMs, and others have already made some great suggestions for secondaries to pair with ninjas. I had someone help me out with my ninjas/cold MM by giving me one of the KD procs (can't remember if it's overwhelming force or sudden acceleration)--you slot it in the genin and this helps them knock foes on their asses and keeps them a little safer while defeating mobs. 

 

This post makes me want to go work on my Ninja/Nature MM lol.

[Caadium]

8 hours ago, kelika2 said:

nin/cold

nin/dark

nin/ta

your secondary needs +def or -tohit

you can try nin/ff if you want but you will be way over defense later on

dont try radiation because the toggles have a small radius

It only has one -tohit in it, but I found the +Res and -Res of Sonic also worked. I have not tried it, but on the +resist front, Thermal might be interesting.

 

7 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

This--ninjas already got a rework which put them in a really good place and are actually more durable than they used to be. You also need to make sure you take a personal attack (at least one, but up to all 3 if you have room in your build) as this gives the ninjas a boost (I believe it's a higher chance to crit, but it's been a bit since I've played a ninja MM).

Ninja MM attacks give the pets +3% crit chance, each, after they have hit. This bonus lasts for 30 seconds. So, if you keep those in cycle, then you are giving your pets +9% crit chance.

 

This is part of what I would consider on choosing a secondary. Because you want to spend time attacking, you might want to consider less active secondaries.

 

For example, with Sonic (since that is what I'm familiar with), Liquify has a 30 second timer, Clarity 90, 2 toggles, and 2 shields. Easier to mix in some attacks while commanding pets. Plus, Liquify being 30-seconds lets you know when you should re-apply your hit +crits.

 

EDIT:

Another thing to note, Train Ninjas gives them around 20% positional Def if you slot for it. More for AoE. Between this, procs, and Maneuvers you can choose sets that aren't pure +Def to create layered protection for them. Increase Density (slotted for Resist) & Transfusion should create somewhat of a layered protection for /Kin, however it still suffers from minimal debuffing. 

Edited August 7 by Caadium

[simpleperson]

Ninjas are a defense class, rather than a resistance class.   /Kin will do better with resistance type pets.   

 

You'll be happier with anything that adds defense.        Jounin start at 15% def, before you even begin using enhancements (which go on "Train Ninjas" instead of on the actual power itself)                  45% is the "soft cap" where only 1 in 20 attacks from an ordinary enemy can land.     Decent enhancing, plus slotting the 2 +def procs can get you up to 35%, but if your secondary adds anything, that will probably get you over the top to 45%.              Then your pets are nigh indestructible most of the time. 

 

Also Jounin can use "Achilles Heel: Chance for resistance debuff", which will indirectly add to their damage, and that of any party members.   A great compliment to /Kin if you choose to stay with that. 

 

 

I agree, however, that it would be cool if the MM could have a sword.   At present the best I can do is give her a mace.  😞        However I am able to get over it because the ninjas themselves look so cool!!!!! 

 

 

 

[Ultimo]

It would also be helpful if the Fighting Pool had alternate animations, of Martial Arts moves.  It might require tweaking the cast times, but I'd do...

 

Boxing = Storm Kick

Kick = Cobra Punch

Cross Punch = Dragon's Tail

 

It might seem that the Cobra Punch should go on the Boxing punch, and the Storm Kick on the Kick, but the choices I made there were about casting times.  Dragon's Tail is a full radius, but Cross Punch is just a cone.  I wouldn't change the actual effect of any of the powers, they would still function as they already do.  So, Cross Punch, using the Dragon's Tail animation, would still just be a cone.

Edited 20 hours ago by Ultimo

[Ultimo]

What about TIME?  Part of the issue is that I want to pick a set that suits the character's backstory.  Briefly, Kozuki Sasuke was a famous ninja of the Meiji era (late 1800s - early 1900s).  He came into conflict with a powerful sorceror, and ended up trapped under Mount Fuji, where he used the sorceror's magic to keep himself alive through the decades.  Freed by the descendants of his followers, he has begun rebuilding his clan, using the sorcerous powers he learned to do so.

 

I originally went with Kinetics, in part because I'd never played it much, and heard about it being awesomeincredibleopnonsense... but I'm just not impressed, and I'm hearing now it's basically just ONE power that is like that.  So, I'm thinking TIME might work conceptually too.  How would the Ninjas fare with a TIME Mastermind?

 

I could also do Storm Summoning, but I've already got several characters that use it... and I find its excessive endurance costs really undercuts the ability to enjoy it.

Nature could work conceptually, but it's all about healing and regeneration, and the Ninjas fold up like origami so fast I likely wouldn't be able to heal them.

I could do Darkness, but again, I have several characters who already have it, and it's not QUITE in character.  It WOULD give all the ninjas a bit of stealth, though, as would Steamy Mist.

 

What do you guys think?

 

[Force Redux]

Time works wonders with everything, including Ninjas. There's an old topic here "It's a Bow Time" done before the ninja rework, that would give pointers, but honestly they'll do just great simply leveling up. 

[simpleperson]

3 hours ago, Ultimo said:

It would also be helpful if the Fighting Pool had alternate animations, of Martial Arts moves.  It might require tweaking the cast times, but I'd do...

 

Boxing = Storm Kick

Kick = Cobra Punch

Cross Punch = Dragon's Tail

 

It might seem that the Cobra Punch should go on the Boxing punch, and the Storm Kick on the Kick, but the choices I made there were about casting times.  Dragon's Tail is a full radius, but Cross Punch is just a cone.  I wouldn't change the actual effect of any of the powers, they would still function as they already do.  So, Cross Punch, using the Dragon's Tail animation, would still just be a cone.

 

Dominator's Martial Assault has a "spinning kick" which is a cone, would probably be a good match to Cross Punch.        That one, and the other two you mentioned have pretty short animation times.    You can always stretch a short animation time into being longer by adding a pause. 

 

 

My present Ninjas MM is Ninjas/Empathy and I skipped Genin.       A lot of the question of survivability comes down to your approach.   I don't always take Genin because they're so death prone, but I can keep the three stronger Henchmen alive if I focus on just them.     However, my MM strategy basically never uses "bodyguard mode".               Ninjas have too few HP to be able to absorb a lot of hits for me. 

 

Instead of bodyguard mode, I just try to draw as little aggro as possible.   The henchmen die instead of me taking hits, and when that happens, I do like any self respecting Mastermind would in the comic books:  I retreat!!!!!!