I don't get the love for Poison

[EnjoyTheJourney]

It is true that that the stacking mechanics work differently for the T2 and T3 poison debuffs when compared to other debuffs that can stack, such as tar patch and freezing rain. For the T2 and T3 poison debuffs you get the highest debuff on the one targeted and a lesser debuff for those affected by a splash from the targeted debuff. That seems mechanically reasonable to me and probably ultimately to the advantage of players because you get to choose which target gets the "Big Kahuna" debuff and which get the lesser debuff. 

It is more work to double up the T2 and T3 debuffs on mobs, for sure, compared to freezing rain and tar patch. But, venomous gas will usually get applied to mobs only affected by the "lesser" splash debuff, which still makes for a higher total than the T2 / T3 splash debuffs on their own. In practice, it's usually only when fighting EBs and above that it's worth bothering to both target mobs directly with a T2 debuff and to also stack a "splash" of the T2 debuff on them. So, in practice the "wonkiness", as you're calling it, which I would call instead "a welcome opportunity to stack debuffs when they're useful", tends to come up only every so often. 

I can empathize with finding it bothersome that a clearly melee-focused set is given a cone with a lot of range on it and a long casting time. Mechanically it seems at odds with the rest of the set. In a similar vein, I've often found it bothersome to have those kinds of cones in a melee-focused dominator assault set because to me those are "dead spots" in the assault set that I'll never touch. Still, I don't see how having a cone is relevant for making judgments specific to just the poison set. It seems to me that's part of a larger discussion about set design, at the end of the day. 
 

Edited Monday at 11:43 PM by EnjoyTheJourney

[tidge]

[WuTang]

13 hours ago, JayboH said:

One of my main focuses in the original post was to point out how wonky the two main debuffs are however - that only the main target gets a full strength debuff and even then it is not the highest debuff you can get on the main target because if you hit a nearby target with the same debuff only then will the first target get the full+splash debuffs.  If a target is hit with two splashes, do they stack if the targeted enemy is different for each splash?  It's weird as heck, and then as I mentioned you have a power that encourages melee range while also having a ranged cone combined without the ability to survive being in melee depending on the scenario.

 

Yes, I agree it is a wonky set. I do like the splash mechanic though. I look at the splash stacking as a bonus and not as part of the main debuff. From my understanding it used to only be single target so the splash is an upgrade. My only problem is I want to target a couple bosses or at least the hardest targets in the group for the main debuff but tab cycling is a very inefficient means for this as the group and team effect target positioning. I also wish there was some animation on the main targets so we'd know who is poisoned. 

 

I'm not real sure how usefully Neurotoxic Breath is. And if you pair Poison with an offense that is heavy on cones, not gonna be a good fit. Unless....you skip Venomous Gas, which actually isn't a terrible idea TBH. It's roughly half the debuff strength as the ranged ones and a huge end drain, blasphemous I know. But think about it, VG is the only reason to be in melee range and the idea is to stack the debuffs, but the ranged debuffs are already pretty stout when they are stacked....hmmm.

Edited Tuesday at 10:58 AM by WuTang

[tidge]

FWIW, I always skip Venomous Gas. It doesn't fit my play style; I can't make the character with it sturdy enough to use it well (because I have other priorities besides trying to make a capstone power useful); I don't need it (solo or on teams)

[UltraAlt]

On 8/22/2025 at 5:57 PM, JayboH said:

It would have been cool to have some DoTs added to a set with this theme.

 

I'm confused. It is a heal/buff/debuff set like the other Corruptor secondaries. 

Which other Corruptor secondary has powers that cause damage?

[TygerDarkstorm]

6 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I'm confused. It is a heal/buff/debuff set like the other Corruptor secondaries. 

Which other Corruptor secondary has powers that cause damage?

Storm is rather well known as a support powerset that actually brings a lot of damage to the table. Cold has sleet, not that that does a whole lot of damage since it's mostly used for the debuffing. Trick arrow has the oil arrow, and Marine has shifting tides.

[Uun]

3 hours ago, WuTang said:

I'm not real sure how usefully Neurotoxic Breath is. And if you pair Poison with an offense that is heavy on cones, not gonna be a good fit. Unless....you skip Venomous Gas, which actually isn't a terrible idea TBH. It's roughly half the debuff strength as the ranged ones and a huge end drain, blasphemous I know. But think about it, VG is the only reason to be in melee range and the idea is to stack the debuffs, but the ranged debuffs are already pretty stout when they are stacked....hmmm.

I may be in the minority, but I like Neurotoxic Breath. It's not only a movement debuff, it's one of the strongest recharge debuffs in the game. I slot it with 1 acc IO, 1 slow IO and 2 %dmg procs (which are virtually guaranteed to fire). The 25% chance to hold is just gravy and can't be enhanced. That said, I wouldn't object to it receiving a buff similar to the one Shiver got when it became Cold Snap.

 

While cones aren't optimal with Poison, they're very manageable (my Poison/Sonic has 3). I don't (and would never) skip Venomous Gas. You just need to become practiced at bunny hopping backward. Combat Teleport can also be useful for this if you set up a bind to TP yourself backward 20-30 feet.

[tidge]

My PoV is that if an enemy could be defeated by me being within melee range of my debuff for less than 10 seconds, my debuff was probably not necessary.

 

As I noted why I skip Venomous Gas: I don't appreciate having to invest in pool powers to make a T9 power useful.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Regarding the "dual boss" scenario, having everything around the one boss that didn't get the "big kahuna" debuff melt faster also makes the one boss who only got the splash debuff melt faster because it will tend to be the last undefeated mob quite soon after the fight starts. If you really feel the need to speed up that process then you can click one button after only that boss is left and apply the full debuff if you'd like. One surviving boss is seldom more than a minor speed bump for a team anyways, either way. 

Still, if somebody enjoys their character more when played at range, then that's more than reason enough to do it. CoH is a pretty easy game and optimizing for fun will usually still lead to a mechanically effective character. It's when you're operating in melee with a poison character that you can really accelerate a team's rate of progress through missions, though. Venomous gas increases the -res and -defense debuffs on enemies, which is helpful for clear speed. And, venomous gas also helps to make it safer to keep drop a highly damaging poison trap loaded with procs as often as possible, which also noticeably helps to improve clear speed. 

[WuTang]

1 hour ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Regarding the "dual boss" scenario, having everything around the one boss that didn't get the "big kahuna" debuff melt faster

 

I find that a dual boss situation is perfect...they both get the "big kahuna" debuff and the splash debuff...and both melt.

[WuTang]

2 hours ago, Uun said:

ou just need to become practiced at bunny hopping backward. Combat Teleport can also be useful for this if you set up a bind to TP yourself backward 20-30 feet.

 

With my current toon, this is exactly what I do, but it's down to theme. A dragon that breathes fire and poison.

[JayboH]

On 8/26/2025 at 6:37 AM, tidge said:

FWIW, I always skip Venomous Gas. It doesn't fit my play style; I can't make the character with it sturdy enough to use it well (because I have other priorities besides trying to make a capstone power useful); I don't need it (solo or on teams)

Well there you go, the powerset is odd.

[JayboH]

On 8/26/2025 at 7:25 AM, UltraAlt said:

 

I'm confused. It is a heal/buff/debuff set like the other Corruptor secondaries. 

Which other Corruptor secondary has powers that cause damage?

Traps, which has a lot of it

Dark Miasma's Dark Servant if you count tentacles

Force Bomb in FF

Whitecap in Marine

Fallout in Rad

Storm has a bunch

Trick Arrow's oil slick

 

Edited Thursday at 10:05 PM by JayboH

[JayboH]

On 8/26/2025 at 10:20 AM, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Regarding the "dual boss" scenario, having everything around the one boss that didn't get the "big kahuna" debuff melt faster also makes the one boss who only got the splash debuff melt faster because it will tend to be the last undefeated mob quite soon after the fight starts. If you really feel the need to speed up that process then you can click one button after only that boss is left and apply the full debuff if you'd like. One surviving boss is seldom more than a minor speed bump for a team anyways, either way. 

Still, if somebody enjoys their character more when played at range, then that's more than reason enough to do it. CoH is a pretty easy game and optimizing for fun will usually still lead to a mechanically effective character. It's when you're operating in melee with a poison character that you can really accelerate a team's rate of progress through missions, though. Venomous gas increases the -res and -defense debuffs on enemies, which is helpful for clear speed. And, venomous gas also helps to make it safer to keep drop a highly damaging poison trap loaded with procs as often as possible, which also noticeably helps to improve clear speed. 

Can I see your build

[UltraAlt]

9 hours ago, JayboH said:

Traps, which has a lot of it

Dark Miasma's Dark Servant if you count tentacles

Force Bomb in FF

Whitecap in Marine

Fallout in Rad

Storm has a bunch

Trick Arrow's oil slick

 

 

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Here are two builds for two different primaries.  

The electric control build has lower ranged defense, but is generally still defensively fine because endurance drain ends up being helpful for surviving in melee range during a fair percentage of longer fights. Also, the gremlins confuse a noticeable number of mobs with the cupid's crush proc slotted in them, thereby reducing incoming aggro.

The darkness control build is still generally safer, though, partly because of better ranged defense and partly because fearsome stare is a really good opener which recharges for pretty much every spawn. All those to hit debuffs also help. 
 

 

Controller (Darkness Control - Poison - Psi mastery),v3.mbd Controller (Electric Control - Poison - Psi mastery),v2.mbd

Edited yesterday at 07:34 AM by EnjoyTheJourney

[MoonSheep]

On 8/26/2025 at 3:52 PM, tidge said:

My PoV is that if an enemy could be defeated by me being within melee range of my debuff for less than 10 seconds, my debuff was probably not necessary.

 

As I noted why I skip Venomous Gas: I don't appreciate having to invest in pool powers to make a T9 power useful.

 

you don’t have to invest in any pool powers, you click the PbAoE toggle and it automatically debuffs enemies within 15ft every 0.5s

 

it’s also the second most powerful debuff power in the set by numbers and the overall most impactful power in poison as a whole as it debuffs multiple enemies at a time, e.g it will give the entire mob -25% res (for equal levels), with the ST debuff giving the boss -40% res for a total of -65%.

 

not picking venomous gas would be like not picking up fulcrum shift from kinetics - it’s the signature dish of Chateau Poison

Edited yesterday at 08:04 AM by MoonSheep

[MoonSheep]

@tidge check this guide out if useful (may also be helpful to other readers). i used it years ago when building my first poison and found it a great source of information

 

 

[Six-Six]

Poison's the only power in the game that lets you spit at heroes.

[tidge]

3 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

you don’t have to invest in any pool powers, you click the PbAoE toggle and it automatically debuffs enemies within 15ft every 0.5s

 

I don't want to have to take Boxing/Tough/Weave and/or Combat Jumping and/or a patron pool to hang in close combat to leverage a T9 debuff.

 

I don't want to have to take Combat Teleport to BAMF in/out while I wait for a debuff tick

 

I don't want to have to take 2 powers + Rune of protection, or 3 other power pool powers just to have extra survivabiity to toss off a ticking PBAoE debuff.

 

I want to have other power picks that make my character engage in enemy defeating. I'm not saying other players are stupid for taking Venomous Gas; I'm saying Venomous Gas doesn't work for me. The only other complete miss for me in Poison is Antidote.

 

As for the linked thread? The build includes 6-slots of Word of Confusion at level 47. I'm sure there are players for whom that suggestion rocks their socks... but not for me. MMV on Hasten as a power pick at level 8... but also not for me.

 

EDIT: I want to add... I've tried to make Venomous Gas work for me on multiple ATs, taking it ASAP and leveling up to 50 with it... my rejection of it is not on some theoretical basis. I found that VG was slowing down my solo completion times and that alternate choices improved my characters' performance.

 

I have Poison characters I like, but certain powers simply don't synergize with my playstyle or other powers. Is that worthy of the aggressive thumbs-downs, I guess so!

Edited yesterday at 11:11 AM by tidge

[MoonSheep]

19 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

I don't want to have to take Boxing/Tough/Weave and/or Combat Jumping and/or a patron pool to hang in close combat to leverage a T9 debuff.

 

I don't want to have to take Combat Teleport to BAMF in/out while I wait for a debuff tick

 

I don't want to have to take 2 powers + Rune of protection, or 3 other power pool powers just to have extra survivabiity to toss off a ticking PBAoE debuff.

 

I want to have other power picks that make my character engage in enemy defeating. I'm not saying other players are stupid for taking Venomous Gas; I'm saying Venomous Gas doesn't work for me. The only other complete miss for me in Poison is Antidote.

 

As for the linked thread? The build includes 6-slots of Word of Confusion at level 47. I'm sure there are players for whom that suggestion rocks their socks... but not for me. MMV on Hasten as a power pick at level 8... but also not for me.

 

EDIT: I want to add... I've tried to make Venomous Gas work for me on multiple ATs, taking it ASAP and leveling up to 50 with it... my rejection of it is not on some theoretical basis. I found that VG was slowing down my solo completion times and that alternate choices improved my characters' performance.

 

I have Poison characters I like, but certain powers simply don't synergize with my playstyle or other powers. Is that worthy of the aggressive thumbs-downs, I guess so!

 

none of that is required though - poison is powerful but yes it is in glass cannon territory. i generally only play on teams and i find just carrying a few wakies and purple insps is a simple fix. let someone take the alpha and then hop in to cause chaos

[tidge]

Just now, MoonSheep said:

 

none of that is required though - poison is powerful but yes it is in glass cannon territory. 

 

As I wrote: I found that trying to use Venomous Gas was slowing down my solo times. If I made the choice to get VG, for solo play I had to be able to hang in melee range.

 

On teams, when we were facing enemies that needed the debuffs from VG, I needed to be able to hang in melee or I was getting hit/mezzes/etc. My team experiences were that unless there was some coverage (typically Incarnates) to help me to hang in melee, that out team performance was superior if I stopped trying to make VG a thing and swapped over to other personal tactics. 

 

If a team or solo doesn't need the VG debuff to defeat enemies in the same amount of time, I see the power pick and slot investment as mostly wasted.

 

I won't deny that VG looks like a good debuff on paper, but in practice I found trying to use it to be holding my characters' back, after hanging with it on multiple toons for a LOT of content, solo and on teams.This isn't the only power like this in the game for me. If others feel it is improving their times because they've tried other strategies and have seen the opposite of my experience, great for them. I'm sharing my experience to provide another players' perspective.

[MoonSheep]

28 minutes ago, tidge said:

 

As I wrote: I found that trying to use Venomous Gas was slowing down my solo times. If I made the choice to get VG, for solo play I had to be able to hang in melee range.

 

On teams, when we were facing enemies that needed the debuffs from VG, I needed to be able to hang in melee or I was getting hit/mezzes/etc. My team experiences were that unless there was some coverage (typically Incarnates) to help me to hang in melee, that out team performance was superior if I stopped trying to make VG a thing and swapped over to other personal tactics. 

 

If a team or solo doesn't need the VG debuff to defeat enemies in the same amount of time, I see the power pick and slot investment as mostly wasted.

 

I won't deny that VG looks like a good debuff on paper, but in practice I found trying to use it to be holding my characters' back, after hanging with it on multiple toons for a LOT of content, solo and on teams.This isn't the only power like this in the game for me. If others feel it is improving their times because they've tried other strategies and have seen the opposite of my experience, great for them. I'm sharing my experience to provide another players' perspective.

 

VG for sure needs melee presence in order to be effective but i haven’t found that to be problematic - i pop a few insps or if im in a team, i let someone else do the face tanking

 

enhancing the -To Hit component is important for solo, if i’m carpark sweeping in PI the mage bosses can make life miserable if they’re not suitably debuffed. this is where i find ice blast better than fire blast, the added utility of having two holds can be a great benefit

 

regardless, embrace death tidge. think of the developers who spend months creating the various floor textures of this great world. how will you admire the footwear of your teammates by being so upright all the time?

[WuTang]

The only debuff Poison offers that actually decreases kill time is -res and to some degree -def, the rest are defensive in nature. VG offers a smaller % of those kill faster debuffs compared to the ranged ones. I can absolutely see @tidge point. Having played Poison now for more than a few TFs, I definitely see Poison's value, but also I can see how much better my experience would be at range with it.

Dropping the hard targets fast is all that really matters as lieutenants and minions melt so fast by any team even without Poison that Poison's only real addition to the team is melting the EB and bosses. I'm pretty sure that a total of -60% res, -100% def, -75% regen should get the job done in haste and all from the comfort of 70+ feet away. Another -16% def and -25% res ain't gonna matter that much. Now if they were to swap those debuffs around and make VG actually the most powerful in the set, sure...

Edited 23 hours ago by WuTang

[WuTang]

It's ok to be wrong @MoonSheep 

 

When you are mezzed or dead VG does nothing. And the numbers don't lie, VG is weaker on the offensive debuffs, and by a large margin, than what is supplied via Envenom. In my build Envenom is up every 4 seconds with a 30 second duration, so I could easily apply two application of it and ensure that the EBs and Bosses melt just as fast from the safety of outside AOE range. Also, for what you get, VG is a huge endurance drain. Definitely should skip VG. Prob repsec this afternoon.