Wealth redistribution system to help new players

[ShardWarrior]

16 hours ago, The Witchfire said:

It doesn't matter IF they need it. Some folks will take all they can just because they can.

 

Not to mention saving themselves the extra effort to send an alt an ingame email.  

 

Learning to earn influence is part of the game, just like leveling up, selecting/slotting/enhancing powers and learning your way around the world.  As others have mentioned before, there are plenty of ways to earn influence.  No need for a pity system.

[biostem]

58 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

No need for a pity system

Not to mention the myriad of ways that have already ben suggested to personally help out other players - get involved!

[battlewraith]

There's a lot of ways to earn xp but we have a system of patrol xp. Maybe patrol xp should also boost inf rewards for lowbies as well. 

[tidge]

On 9/3/2025 at 1:31 PM, golstat2003 said:

I've heard folks complain about having to do TFS constantly to earn merits also sooooo. 🙈🙉🙊

 

Don't ignore the players who've "won" via MIDS, know every Purple, Winter and Hami-O enhancement, and have figured out how to PL via multiboxing in the AE, but want to complain about the AH.

 

On 9/3/2025 at 1:31 PM, golstat2003 said:

There is also merits, which you can use to fund yourself without ever touching the AH. 

 

I think it was my first HC character that leveraged the market to make staggering amount of Inf... something like 250MInf (/s)... that was invested in future characters... and after I started using a SG base to store "commonly used" pieces the amount of Inf I'd pass to the next character got smaller and smaller... and eventually I stopped even trying to rebuild the 'kitty' for the next character. I still dump things into the AH (so the purse gets reloaded) but those funds are basically covering scratch fees for crafting, temp powers, etc.

 

For many years now... I've been exclusively relying on Merits to get most everything for characters... either directly (Merit Vendors for recipes/pieces) or indirectly via Converters (for crafted drops). This is highly inefficient (from a Merits -> Inf -> AH perspective) The content I play yields more merits than Inf... I can switch my content of course, but merits roll in without having to do anything but play.

[golstat2003]

On 9/5/2025 at 1:47 PM, tidge said:

 

Don't ignore the players who've "won" via MIDS, know every Purple, Winter and Hami-O enhancement, and have figured out how to PL via multiboxing in the AE, but want to complain about the AH.

 

 

I think it was my first HC character that leveraged the market to make staggering amount of Inf... something like 250MInf (/s)... that was invested in future characters... and after I started using a SG base to store "commonly used" pieces the amount of Inf I'd pass to the next character got smaller and smaller... and eventually I stopped even trying to rebuild the 'kitty' for the next character. I still dump things into the AH (so the purse gets reloaded) but those funds are basically covering scratch fees for crafting, temp powers, etc.

 

For many years now... I've been exclusively relying on Merits to get most everything for characters... either directly (Merit Vendors for recipes/pieces) or indirectly via Converters (for crafted drops). This is highly inefficient (from a Merits -> Inf -> AH perspective) The content I play yields more merits than Inf... I can switch my content of course, but merits roll in without having to do anything but play.

pretty much my response to folks in game who complain”I came to play a super hero game not a marketer”

 

Me: “okay, great play the game and just use merits”

 

Them: “it’s to sloowwww”

 

Me: *clicks name and adds to ignore*
 

I got no time for folks who choose not to try to solve their own self inflicted problems. mind you that convo above is usually I have told them the various ways to make inf like converters for example.

[Ukase]

I like the sentiment behind the idea. If there were a way (for me) to know with certainty which characters were actually a new account, rather than an alt, or an alt account, I would be giving away inf more often. 

There are a lot of players who already have big stacks of inf who have no problem putting their hand out for free loot to get more - just to hoard it. 

But, there's no way for us to know who's brand new, aside from asking them. And given my experience with more than a few players - they'll lie to you to get your inf. I guess they feel like if I have enough to give it away, and they only have 20 billion to my trillion larger stack, then I won't miss it. And while that's true, I'd rather give it away to someone who only has 200M or less. 

And really, if someone has a level 50 and 200M, that's really all the inf they'll ever need - unless they start making alts. It's the alts that sap the stacks of influence. And there are players who make a ton of alts. Some folks make a new 50 every day. No idea how they get a real feel for the character that quickly, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. I'm just glad I don't have to fund them. 

Now, if the HC gms want to mark new players with some kind of burlap cloth, or barrel held up by suspenders, I'll be able to recognize who could use a donation, and gladly make it. But, I imagine for the same reason they ridiculously hid the "date of creation" date, making me have to toggle that on, instead of the other way around, they'll never make a new account stand out like that. And, heck, even if they did, given Snarky's affinity for panhandling, who's to say he wouldn't make a new account just to see what might end up being donated. Well, I'm saying he wouldn't...but the option would be there, and I know there are players that would do just this - make a new account and hope they get some free influence. 
 

[Ghost]

[tidge]

8 hours ago, Ukase said:

And really, if someone has a level 50 and 200M, that's really all the inf they'll ever need - unless they start making alts. It's the alts that sap the stacks of influence. And there are players who make a ton of alts. Some folks make a new 50 every day. No idea how they get a real feel for the character that quickly, but they're gonna do what they're gonna do. I'm just glad I don't have to fund them.

 

These are the parts of the post that resonate deepest with me. I understand playing characters up to level 50... I don't understand churning out level 50 after level 50 and also wanting each of them to have full-kits of Purples, Hami-Os, etc... while complaining that this self-made choice isn't trivial. The level 50+ content isn't going away... and *if* there is content that requires specific enhancement sets... I can guarantee that such content is better served by a player who listens and pays attention and understands their character more than anything else.

 

I tend to plot out my characters' power picks up from 1-49, as well as what I think the final slotting might look like... but I am test driving the character as it levels. Playing through low level content gives me a better feel for what powers to have when, and sometimes a power that looks good in theory simply doesn't perform to my expectations. There are a handful of powers that I see folks recommend that are IMO pretty inferior choices, there are some powers & sets that I feel really only work for a full-kit build, and there are some powers that work really well when leveling but aren't needed on a full-kit final build. Jumping straight to 50 is IMO not just skipping most of the game's fun times, but also skipping out on a lot of the learning.

[Skyhawke]

1 hour ago, Ghost said:

 

Isn't that sign a redundancy? 😅

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

but also skipping out on a lot of the learning.

I'm kind of on the same page as you, but I'm not going to presume that more than a few of these players don't need to learn it now. They've already learned it, and it's in their knowledge base. At least, given what I've seen, and picked up during the chat when teaming with some of them, that's what my take away is. 


After having slept on this topic, knowing that my first task today was to grind out the defeats necessary for Atlas Medallion. I enjoy this about as much as the folks that don't like to craft enjoy crafting. Now, I can choose to do a tf and have a team help me with the heavy lifting. And really, that's what I should do. But then I can't enjoy my coffee. I can only sip between missions and it gets cold (if I'm playing to contribute, rather than just ease back and let other folks do the work my alt tank would do.) 

So, my new position is, if we are to remove an obstacle/challenge for players that is part of what this game offers, then we should totally allow me to buy the accolade powers with influence and remove those obstacle/challenges for me. That seems fair to me, but just typing it out, I know there are going to be a lot of "Are you nuts?" and "You are nuts!" kind of responses. In their minds, if not typed out to needlessly have me question my sanity and intellect. (Both are probably fair game to question, tbh) 

My heart goes out to the newer player, it does. I want to help them. But - I know if you help a new player too much, there's no more challenge for them, and they just get bored and stop playing. That's a real thing. I like the sentiment as I said in my first post. But in practice, gifting influence and other goods doesn't work in the long run. (I'm sure there are exceptions) 

A new player needs to figure these things out by reading the forums - since the information isn't easily digestible in the game, (if it's even available) unless a player like myself takes the time to explain things in detail (sometimes excruciating if they're young, or really don't know the terminology at all). Even then, I'm careful to not reveal too much behind the curtain, lest they get overwhelmed trying to run before they can walk. 

The best thing I do for any player asking about inf is to either send them my old, obsolete guide from 4 years ago, or have them read Yomo's guide that's far more up to date than mine. I haven't shared mine because it is obsolete, and as you can tell - I'm terribly bad at being concise. I tend to explain things in great detail - because that's what I would want. 

 

[tidge]

16 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I'm kind of on the same page as you, but I'm not going to presume that more than a few of these players don't need to learn it now. They've already learned it, and it's in their knowledge base. At least, given what I've seen, and picked up during the chat when teaming with some of them, that's what my take away is. 

 

I got to this point, and then I thought about it, and I've judged that this is an argument with very little weight.  I certainly feel like I've "mastered" certain sets and ATs such that I *know* what powers I want to take and how they will be slotted... and I feel that there is very little room for "more learning".. so there are two questions I have to answer for myself:

1. Why am I essentially re-rolling a character?
2. Is it important that I get *this* character to insta-50 with a full kit?
3. If I must insta-kit, am I able to insta-kit this character?

#1: Sometimes I have a concept character that inspires me to make a new version of an existing character...  but it takes very little effort to "reserve a name". 

 

#2: "holding" a name takes very little effort. Peram-holds (@50) require no slotting. If I've already "learned the game"... that holds true for all 50+ content too! If I want to play with friends... do they care if I am loaded with Purples? Is there level-50 solo content that demands I be full-kit?

 

#3: If I'm smart enough to have solved the game... I'm smart enough to know the answer to this question. If I played the game enough to have gotten to the point I know I want to insta-kit... I know how to insta-kit.

 

The *one* solo activity that I can imagine demands insta-50s with insta-kits is AFK farming for Empyrian merits, since there is a cap on Empyrian merits from levels.

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

 

These are the parts of the post that resonate deepest with me. I understand playing characters up to level 50... I don't understand churning out level 50 after level 50 and also wanting each of them to have full-kits of Purples, Hami-Os, etc... while complaining that this self-made choice isn't trivial. The level 50+ content isn't going away... and *if* there is content that requires specific enhancement sets... I can guarantee that such content is better served by a player who listens and pays attention and understands their character more than anything else.

 

I tend to plot out my characters' power picks up from 1-49, as well as what I think the final slotting might look like... but I am test driving the character as it levels. Playing through low level content gives me a better feel for what powers to have when, and sometimes a power that looks good in theory simply doesn't perform to my expectations. There are a handful of powers that I see folks recommend that are IMO pretty inferior choices, there are some powers & sets that I feel really only work for a full-kit build, and there are some powers that work really well when leveling but aren't needed on a full-kit final build. Jumping straight to 50 is IMO not just skipping most of the game's fun times, but also skipping out on a lot of the learning.

 

Well you CAN actually do this (raises hand) but then you have to play the market/converters equally as much as you play the game/farm.

 

And you have to be prepared to take long breaks for the eventual burnout and play COH in bursts of weeks at a time, while playing other games. (also raises hand)

 

😛 

[battlewraith]

22 minutes ago, Ukase said:

My heart goes out to the newer player, it does. I want to help them. But - I know if you help a new player too much, there's no more challenge for them, and they just get bored and stop playing. That's a real thing. I like the sentiment as I said in my first post. But in practice, gifting influence and other goods doesn't work in the long run. (I'm sure there are exceptions) 

 

In my opinion, this has been proven false. You heard the same concerns back in 2004 and all through live that powerleveling would do this. People would get to 50, see all the shiny stuff, get bored and leave. In reality, the opposite was true. PLing allowed people to skip the aspects of the game that they found tedious and it kept them engaged. 

 

This is entertainment. It's a game. For fun. And that's going to mean different things for different people. 

Every time a discussion like this pops up, you get a lot of old school players who chime in about how things should be. Players should go slow and play all this content that the game has to offer. If they don't go all in and learn to do it the right way, then they are responsible for their own problems and shouldn't complain. These players are living in a nostalgia bubble. 

 

The reality is that this is a tab-targetting MMO that is over two decades old. It's extremely repetitive and very easy compared to other current games out there. There are things to learn, mainly because the game mechanics in some ways are opaque and/or counterintuitive, but that's really only an issue for harder content or min/maxing build. Ironically,  some of the same people who will say players need to learn how to make inf will scoff at the idea making expensive full-kit build in mids being a justification for why you need to earn more inf to begin with. What should appeal to new players and what they should or should not find challenging or tedious is not some Platonic ideal. It's relative to what other experiences are available and how old a game is.

 

With respect to the suggestion of giving new players more inf--that's not really the option I'd pursue. I'd rather see them slash prices for SOs. 

People will point out workarounds for not having money--make merits, buy converters, sell on the market etc. If that's a standard practice that anyone can do--then fuck it. Just cut the prices so that people can just afford the SOs based on what they earn in missions. Don't make them jump through other hoops, which is codified in player guides as the thing to do. The thing to do should be to defeat enemies in missions and not be punished, relatively speaking, for ignorantly assuming that that is what you should be doing in the game. 

 

Likewise, for veteran players who dislike the market and buy things with merits--cut the costs for such purchases. It shouldn't that much less rewarding to play that way. Especially in the afterglow of the emp merit conversion, which was great. Make a currency that is largely worthless at a certain point useful in outfitting new characters. 

[golstat2003]

Slashing the prices of SOs to may 100 inf max each (no matter the level) is something I could get behind. I mean they are SOs.

 

The merits cost reduction maybe. But would have to be done very carefully so as not to have any negative effects on the market or economy.

 

The devs have repeatedly said they consider the Market/IO/crafting system as a part of the game.

[battlewraith]

3 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

Slashing the prices of SOs to may 100 inf max each (no matter the level) is something I could get behind. I mean they are SOs.

 

The merits cost reduction maybe. But would have to be done very carefully so as not to have any negative effects on the market or economy.

 

The devs have repeatedly said they consider the Market/IO/crafting system as a part of the game.

 

The problem is that there is likely no option that would not have a negative effect on the market. The market is predicated in part the interaction of people who don't know what they're doing or are in a hurry. I would like to see non-fungible enhancement options that would be cheaper but would be locked to a character or account and could not be traded. But even the reduction of people participating in the market would have some effect.

 

You can acknowledge that the market is part of the game without seeing it as a mandatory activity for players that don't like it. IMO it's too prominent. It should be a convenience, not a panacea. 

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, battlewraith said:

In my opinion, this has been proven false.

Obviously, this isn't true for everyone. But I can't count on both hands and both sets of toes the number of people I've given a billion inf to that no longer play the game. They're gone. And now - it could be anything that kept them from returning, but I blame myself for removing the same challenge that kept me interested. 

Now, that's obviously false reasoning, and frankly egotistical of me to think that way. As if I would have that kind of control over another person's choice to play or not play. 

 

 

2 hours ago, battlewraith said:

The reality is that this is a tab-targetting MMO that is over two decades old. It's extremely repetitive and very easy compared to other current games out there. There are things to learn, mainly because the game mechanics in some ways are opaque and/or counterintuitive, but that's really only an issue for harder content or min/maxing build. Ironically,  some of the same people who will say players need to learn how to make inf will scoff at the idea making expensive full-kit build in mids being a justification for why you need to earn more inf to begin with. What should appeal to new players and what they should or should not find challenging or tedious is not some Platonic ideal. It's relative to what other experiences are available and how old a game is.

This is a really interesting take, and honestly, I don't know how I feel about it. For me - this talk of "this game is 20 years old" is irrelevant. But the last sentence about what other experiences are available is relevant. But let's not lose sight of the fact: this is free to play, made possible by consistent donations of a very small minority of passionate players who generate stories, new factions, new powersets, all on their own time. And, to a lesser, but every bit as important, financial donations by another minority of passionate players. 

I can only express my opinion, which you disagree with - and that's perfectly okay. You have a perspective that far beyond my narrow view. I've only tried maybe 10 other MMOs, and for whatever reason, uninstalled them within 10 minutes or so, except Champions Online, which I uninstalled after a few days. So, my views about those other experiences that are available are non-existent, really. 

But in the vacuum that is CoH - I think it's more than fair to let the players that don't find marketing fun to suck it up, and do it anyway. I didn't find defeating 200 vamps and 200 council wolves fun either - but I did it. So why can't they suck it up and just do it? It's part of the game. 

We don't have recipe storage for a reason - because marketing is part of the game. For me - it's a sometimes tedious, but other times endorphin releasing fun. 
I fully get that we don't see this the same way, which is fair enough. 
 

 

2 hours ago, battlewraith said:

I'd rather see them slash prices for SOs. 

This is actually a fair idea. At level 2, they should cost like 200 inf. Level 10, 1000 inf. Etc. 
Resale value should be 1/2. 

That's just a suggestion, but as I see it, that's very cheap, but not so cheap that they can't sell the trash drops and get what they need/want. And as they level up, even though the prices creep up, they should still be able to keep up.

[battlewraith]

21 minutes ago, Ukase said:

But in the vacuum that is CoH - I think it's more than fair to let the players that don't find marketing fun to suck it up, and do it anyway. I didn't find defeating 200 vamps and 200 council wolves fun either - but I did it. So why can't they suck it up and just do it? It's part of the game. 

 

"It's part of the game" is a non argument. The game is something that has been developed by different groups of people and has changed significantly over time. Something as simple as the fact that that there are now 2x xp boosters available all the time is huge. Why is this that case?--I don't know the official reason but I suspect that the core audience is now well into middle age, has less time to waste on video games, and is much less interested on a slow crawl through the lower levels. The devs could've just ignored this concern and said "well grinding xp at the normal rate is just part of the game." The result would've been a certain percentage of the population leaving.

 

Someone saying "it's part of the game", especially in a suggestions forum, is the equivalent of them saying "I'm fine with the way things are now."

The problem with that is that the game should be able to support a broader range of interests, not just those of people who are deeply committed and will probably be here until the lights shut off anyway.

[ZacKing]

On 9/4/2025 at 4:56 PM, ShardWarrior said:

No need for a pity system.

 

Pity system is I think the best way to describe this and I totally agree, we don't need one at all.  New players have all kinds of methods to generate all the influence they'll ever need.  I think it's sort of hilarious to see some of the more vocal opponents of people getting PL'ed in AE and "not knowing how to play the game" defending a pity system for "new" players to get influence.  This would just make new players have tons of inf without knowing what to do with it.  They won't know what to buy, how to slot it or how to play with their new character that they just wasted all that free inf on.  Hard no from me.

[tidge]

59 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

They won't know what to buy, how to slot it or how to play with their new character that they just wasted all that free inf on.  Hard no from me.

 

This part stirs a variety of feels. I remember the earliest days of Live when I'd pick content/street sweep just to get DOs that maybe I could combine with other pieces to help my characters avoid having red-level  enhancements... so with that specific 20-year-old feel in place, heck yes I feel like helping new players with a little scratch has a tiny bit of appeal to me. However...

 

...The Homecoming version of the game absolutely sidesteps ever having to have those feels... unless a player is absolutely unwilling to engage with the game. In no particular order:

• It is trivial to burn through early (pre-22) levels (DFB, AE whatever)
• After level 22, a player may as well slot IOs... and because of lvl 25/30 crafting badges, those are readily available on the market (plus 1 for free from the University)
• IO recipes just *drop*. Certainly by level 50 I am always cleaning out Endurance/Recharge Reductions, Accuracy and Damage IOs.

 

I'm somewhat certain that giving out wealth leads to inflation. It's not as if lack of enhancements is equivalent to hungry and poorly clothed children.

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

Someone saying "it's part of the game", especially in a suggestions forum, is the equivalent of them saying "I'm fine with the way things are now."

The problem with that is that the game should be able to support a broader range of interests, not just those of people who are deeply committed and will probably be here until the lights shut off anyway.

You raise a good point. 
But, I am fine with the way things are now, but I am open to some change. I liked the lower SO cost. (for everyone, not just new players) 
But I certainly don't want things free. And I do want every player to at least know how to use a converter and a catalyst, even if they would rather not. After all, nobody's forcing me to get an accolade. That's torture (of sorts) I put myself through. 

Kudos to you for explaining your position constructively and not just telling me I'm a jerk. 

[golstat2003]

On 9/8/2025 at 11:19 AM, battlewraith said:

 

The problem is that there is likely no option that would not have a negative effect on the market. The market is predicated in part the interaction of people who don't know what they're doing or are in a hurry. I would like to see non-fungible enhancement options that would be cheaper but would be locked to a character or account and could not be traded. But even the reduction of people participating in the market would have some effect.

 

You can acknowledge that the market is part of the game without seeing it as a mandatory activity for players that don't like it. IMO it's too prominent. It should be a convenience, not a panacea. 

 

We will have to agree to disagree.