Additional Alternate Drop for Hami raids

[DrRocket]

Was thinking in a TINMAGE you get a choice for 80 merits, 2 emps, or 2 random incarnate salvage.

 

In a Hami you get a choice of :4 emps, a Hami Enhancement, 80 merits

 

It would be helpful for those who just unlocked their incarnate abilities, who are in search of incarnate salvage, that Hami would give the choice of 1 Random Incarnate Salvage...

 

Only a suggestion, now for the opposition, ha ha ha

[Rudra]

The Tin Mage Mark II TF is an Incarnate task force. Hamidon is not Incarnate content. Why should Hamidon give Incarnate salvage? You have all of Dark Astoria with its repeatable missions and story arcs that can be repeated via the flashback system, Incarnate task forces, iTrials, and veteran level rewards to get Incarnate salvage with. (As well as the Incarnate Shards and Incarnate Threads that randomly drop from all enemies regardless of level once you hit level 50.)

 

Edit: Hells, Hamidon already awards Emp.'s. You can just buy the salvage you want with it.

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Rudra

[lemming]

I'd be fine with it, though it's only worth it if you get a Rare or Very Rare since 4 Emps will pay for four common, or one uncommon already.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, lemming said:

I'd be fine with it, though it's only worth it if you get a Rare or Very Rare since 4 Emps will pay for four common, or one uncommon already.

And that is the part I disagree with. The getting rare and very rare salvage drops from Hamidon. Ask for more Incarnate content if people want more sources of straight up Incarnate salvage drops. Hells, turn difficulty down to -1/x1 with bosses turned off and blitz the Heather Townsend arc. It's short and easy even without turning down the difficulty. At least it is Incarnate content though.

 

All I see the OP leading to is even more players complaining that they are getting Incarnate salvage they can't use even faster than they already do.

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

All I see the OP leading to is even more players complaining that they are getting Incarnate salvage they can't use even faster than they already do.

...Through an optional dialog they could choose to completely ignore?

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, macskull said:

...Through an optional dialog they could choose to completely ignore?

No, by faster acquisition of the rares and very rares they need to finish crafting their Incarnate powers. Which will lead to the reward of threads, merits, and salvage drops from TFs and iTrials they can't use faster than they would have previously.

 

Edit: On Everlasting, we run double, triple, and even quadruple Hamidon raids depending on the time of day and the raid leader. With Emp.s being available once per day (20 hours?), and then random Incarnate salvage drops added as a new choice, unless the random drop is also limited to once per day (20 hours?), that is a fast and easy means to blitz drops.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Rudra

[macskull]

Just now, Rudra said:

No, by faster acquisition of the rares and very rares they need to finish crafting their Incarnate powers. Which will lead to the reward of threads, merits, and salvage drops from TFs and iTrials they can't use faster than they would have previously.

Again, if people are complaining they're getting too much stuff that they have to choose to get, I don't think we need to worry about their opinions. It doesn't matter anyways, since at the end of the day you can turn any incarnate-related materials into inf so "I have too many incarnate materials I can't use" is an entirely self-caused problem.

[macskull]

Anyways, more on-topic:

 

Hami isn't really incarnate content so the argument really should be whether incarnate salvage would be an appropriate drop. There was some discussion from a dev a while back on how they wouldn't mind adjusting the Hami-O drop table to prioritize the newer (and more valuable) ones if all four blooms were cleared, which I think would be an interesting dynamic change.

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, macskull said:

It doesn't matter anyways, since at the end of the day you can turn any incarnate-related materials into inf

Please tell me how. I have LOTS of alts that can use an influx of inf'.

[macskull]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Please tell me how. I have LOTS of alts that can use an influx of inf'.

Every single piece of incarnate-related material can be converted into threads which can then be used to purchase inspirations from Luna to sell on the AH. It's why removing the empyprean -> reward merit conversion was such a joke - you can still do the exact same thing as before just with a couple more steps.

 

EDIT: It's not super efficient or fast since the going rates for super inspirations vary wildly and demand isn't as high as, say, converters or boosters, but making some inf while clearing out useless inventory is better than making no inf and being stuffed with useless inventory (and yes, even VR salvage is useless if you're done making your incarnate abilities).

Edited 21 hours ago by macskull

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, macskull said:

Every single piece of incarnate-related material can be converted into threads which can then be used to purchase inspirations from Luna to sell on the AH. It's why removing the empyprean -> reward merit conversion was such a joke - you can still do the exact same thing as before just with a couple more steps.

 

EDIT: It's not super efficient or fast since the going rates for super inspirations vary wildly and demand isn't as high as, say, converters or boosters, but making some inf while clearing out useless inventory is better than making no inf and being stuffed with useless inventory (and yes, even VR salvage is useless if you're done making your incarnate abilities).

Then I guess I don't care as much about the OP any more. I still think Incarnate salvage drops should be limited to Incarnate content, but I'm less inclined to care.

[golstat2003]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

And that is the part I disagree with. The getting rare and very rare salvage drops from Hamidon. Ask for more Incarnate content if people want more sources of straight up Incarnate salvage drops. Hells, turn difficulty down to -1/x1 with bosses turned off and blitz the Heather Townsend arc. It's short and easy even without turning down the difficulty. At least it is Incarnate content though.

 

All I see the OP leading to is even more players complaining that they are getting Incarnate salvage they can't use even faster than they already do.

The OP asked for it to be random. So you could get a common even. I’m fine with adding this option to Hami with it being random, like the OP said.

[golstat2003]

7 hours ago, DrRocket said:

Was thinking in a TINMAGE you get a choice for 80 merits, 2 emps, or 2 random incarnate salvage.

 

In a Hami you get a choice of :4 emps, a Hami Enhancement, 80 merits

 

It would be helpful for those who just unlocked their incarnate abilities, who are in search of incarnate salvage, that Hami would give the choice of 1 Random Incarnate Salvage...

 

Only a suggestion, now for the opposition, ha ha ha

As long as it’s random, this is a good idea to add to Hami.

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, macskull said:

Every single piece of incarnate-related material can be converted into threads which can then be used to purchase inspirations from Luna to sell on the AH. It's why removing the empyprean -> reward merit conversion was such a joke - you can still do the exact same thing as before just with a couple more steps.

 

EDIT: It's not super efficient or fast since the going rates for super inspirations vary wildly and demand isn't as high as, say, converters or boosters, but making some inf while clearing out useless inventory is better than making no inf and being stuffed with useless inventory (and yes, even VR salvage is useless if you're done making your incarnate abilities).

The drop of the conversion was a definite nerf to how I used to get converters and I argued against it in beta. Obviously my opinion was drowned out. Lol

[Ukase]

8 hours ago, macskull said:

 It's not super efficient or fast

And that's why most folks don't do it. Heck, I only do that when I'm deleting a 50. I never know when some league leader is going to say, "Hey, let's go with this interface/lore/hybrid instead" 

Personally, I'm grateful to get emps in Hami. I only rarely choose them, as emps are like xp. They come as you play. Unless you're in some kind of a hurry, may as well just let the game drop them on you every 3 vet levels. But, the case can be made for having a lot of t-merits to prep a character you're excited to try out sooner than later. 

Rudra, whom I rarely see eye to eye with, makes one valid point. We could use more incarnate content to get different paths to get our incarnate materials. Frankly, I've been relying on the labyrinth and t-merits to complete my characters, with the odd run through DA. I am woefully weary of the iTrials. 

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

We could use more incarnate content

No argument there.   Though that takes a lot more work than adding to a reward table.    I don't see anything harmful to this suggestion though I assume it would be limited per one per day per char like the other choices.

 

On excess Incarnate salvage, I do seem to let it just build up though the conversion to inspirations happens if I need a few for a Magi run, or I'm retiring a char.

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

The OP asked for it to be random. So you could get a common even. I’m fine with adding this option to Hami with it being random, like the OP said.

Yes, I know the OP said random. And you can randomly get rare and very rare drops. And that is not something I am comfortable with for non-Incarnate content. Especially from something as quick as a Hamidon raid. The late night raids I've seen have had up to four completed in less than 20 minutes (guesstimation from how fast it feels as I've never timed them) total because they only attack Hamidon himself and not any of the mitos. That's four very fast very rare possibilities. (Not likely, but definitely possible.) No need to choose the Emp.s, you have much better odds just taking the random drop in every run.

 

(Edit again: And as fast as Hamidon can be blitzed, that makes Hamidon raids a much better source of Incarnate salvage than Incarnate content just from how fast you can try your luck on the table.)

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Rudra
Edited to add guesstimation comment in parenthesis.

[lemming]

Rudra, since all the other rewards are time capped, it's safe to assume this would be too, so I don't see the need to argue that point.   (1/2 merits on reward, but that's the only one that can be picked more than once in 18 hours)  And switching chars during one of the 2-4 Hami rounds, isn't easy.

 

And based on my times in the hive for the multi-run, it factors in getting there early enough to start, so arriving at ~40 min early, and then it all depends on how fast Hami pops.   I'd say if Hami pops on the first wall each time, you can do five in the 40 min allotted, but 3-4 seems to be more common.  And yea, I'd say the total run is ~30-40 min dependent on when the league fills, but no new one starts after the scheduled time.

 

And since people can run Heather in less than 20 minutes without rushing and it's not time capped, that's still a better source.

 

It's not a huge task (I think) to add it to the rewards, but if it's more painful than that, then no, but otherwise, sure.   I don't see it particularly game breaking or lore breaking with Emps already available.

[Rudra]

18 minutes ago, lemming said:

Rudra, since all the other rewards are time capped, it's safe to assume this would be too, so I don't see the need to argue that point.   (1/2 merits on reward, but that's the only one that can be picked more than once in 18 hours)  And switching chars during one of the 2-4 Hami rounds, isn't easy.

 

And based on my times in the hive for the multi-run, it factors in getting there early enough to start, so arriving at ~40 min early, and then it all depends on how fast Hami pops.   I'd say if Hami pops on the first wall each time, you can do five in the 40 min allotted, but 3-4 seems to be more common.  And yea, I'd say the total run is ~30-40 min dependent on when the league fills, but no new one starts after the scheduled time.

 

And since people can run Heather in less than 20 minutes without rushing and it's not time capped, that's still a better source.

 

It's not a huge task (I think) to add it to the rewards, but if it's more painful than that, then no, but otherwise, sure.   I don't see it particularly game breaking or lore breaking with Emps already available.

The Empyrean Merit drops are time limited in all non-trial instances if I remember correctly. Salvage drops are not. (I'm don't often do Incarnate content though, so I'm not 100% certain on that.) So I have no reason to believe they will be for Hami'. If they are time capped for Hami'? That's less for me to worry about. If others are adamant about this though, then I think the choice should be the guaranteed merits or a random drop with either selection locking out the other choice for the same time limit as the chosen choice. Gamble for your reward or take the sure choice, but not both.

[srmalloy]

38 minutes ago, lemming said:

And switching chars during one of the 2-4 Hami rounds, isn't easy.

It's slightly easier if you plan ahead of time and pre-position alts in the Hive or the Abyss, depending on which Hami raid you're alting for, but it can still be a crapshoot for not hitting a full zone. 

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Yes, I know the OP said random. And you can randomly get rare and very rare drops. And that is not something I am comfortable with for non-Incarnate content. Especially from something as quick as a Hamidon raid. The late night raids I've seen have had up to four completed in less than 20 minutes (guesstimation from how fast it feels as I've never timed them) total because they only attack Hamidon himself and not any of the mitos. That's four very fast very rare possibilities. (Not likely, but definitely possible.) No need to choose the Emp.s, you have much better odds just taking the random drop in every run.

 

(Edit again: And as fast as Hamidon can be blitzed, that makes Hamidon raids a much better source of Incarnate salvage than Incarnate content just from how fast you can try your luck on the table.)

 

This roll would be capped to once a day for no matter how many times you do Hami, if I know HC devs lol

[macskull]

9 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

The drop of the conversion was a definite nerf to how I used to get converters and I argued against it in beta. Obviously my opinion was drowned out. Lol

I wasn't around when that update was in beta testing or I probably would have argued against it too. I understand why it happened, but it did absolutely nothing to address the problem it was supposed to address.