Weak RP / Mary Sue RP

[Prototech]

Wanted to post and see if anyone had input or thoughts on this. Far too often I end up in an RP group where every character knows everything and is some variant of the infinitely wise always knows the right answer boy/girl scout.

 

I feel like I'm playing with a bunch of CW mary sues half the time. A good RP group is so rare I sometimes don't even bother looking for one. I feel it's more immersive playing in a silent OOC group than in a bad RP group.

 

And I get I make it hard for myself, I'm not really looking for a regular group or SG to RP in, I'm just running missions and like to RP a storyline and character as I do it. I have dozens of alts too so I don't often get to play with the same characters. It's not a play style conducive to good RP in the first place. My own fault at the end of the day.

 

Really though, why play a character that knows everything about every villain group and piece of lore? You're essentially yourself as a studied min maxed gamer in the game at that point. If we are playing through the opening chapters of the praetoria storylines, how does your character already know everything about the multiverse?

 

Another example, at the end of a string of missions my character acted overwhelmed and the group leader gave the most cringe mary sue pep talk I could have imagined. It wasn't believable as their character, it's like the player was talking through directly.

 

Another example, dude got powers from a demon, talks about it like his bro gave him a skateboard. Now, that could be done right, but it was clearly just a lack of ability to RP. It was just a guy playing who was like 'RP, cool I guess, yeah I have time powers and stuff' .

 

Just venting slightly, it's not the end of the world and really to each their own. I wouldn't want to take CW style RP and maybe people just learning or getting started out of the game, it's not my place to say what people should be doing with their time. I'm just really putting feelers out there to see if there are also people like me out there with similar thoughts/experiences.

 

[Ruin Mage]

Really though, why play a character that knows everything about every villain group and piece of lore? You're essentially yourself as a studied min maxed gamer in the game at that point. If we are playing through the opening chapters of the praetoria storylines, how does your character already know everything about the multiverse?

 

I know you're venting, but I still feel like addressing this; Some people don't play using the Security/Threat level stuff. There's also a lot of room for public knowledge, etc. It also needs to be said that the story for Praetoria is over more or less - the Praetors are defeated, the invasion has been shut down, and all thats left are pockets of resistance perhaps - and Devouring Earth. Now, if the team explicitly states they're pre-invasion then that's another thing entirely. RPing in teams can be a bit funky.

 

Now, again, there's a lot of public knowledge out there. Media is a big deal, as are books - which often contain information. As do reports for agencies, etc. So knowing everything, while a bit sketch, isnt as heinous in COH's universe. It's really up to the player - and some players may just be new and think OOC knowledge=IC knowledge. Other times, its people playing an older/veteran character.

 

Another example, at the end of a string of missions my character acted overwhelmed and the group leader gave the most cringe mary sue pep talk I could have imagined. It wasn't believable as their character, it's like the player was talking through directly.

 

Another example, dude got powers from a demon, talks about it like his bro gave him a skateboard. Now, that could be done right, but it was clearly just a lack of ability to RP. It was just a guy playing who was like 'RP, cool I guess, yeah I have time powers and stuff'

 

On the first, dialogue can sometimes be one of the hardest parts of roleplaying. What one sees as cringe (This word is horrid) or mary sue, the person might find to be the best they could do. After all, most of us aren't best-selling novelists ala GRRM or JKR.

 

On the second, sometimes characters are not going to be as you expect. Not all characters are the same. One character may be all blase about the demonic powers, and another will feel turmoil over it. It may not be lacking the ability to RP but more that they are new to it, or new to a superhero genre for RP - especially such an open-ended lore for what is possible.

 

 

 

[Snarky]

Yeah. I run in pickup groups exclusively and alt a lot.  Was running my Brute Snarkenstein on the TF where you fight the freak show in the generator station at the end. Yin?  Not sure.  Anyways I am of course saying silly things in character  Mostly about how pretty the AV was.  The group was into it and it flowed nicely. Again tough fight so it was flavor between waves.  That is the extent of my rp in game.  I would love to get into a regular group. There was a sg invite in broadcast about to rp. I sent a tell got back a few questions and no invite.  And I have been playing to since the original d&d Not ad&d.  So....  not sure about it at all

 

I do know I like building my characters from backstory to costumes to powers and wandering through CoX having a ball again. Gl

[Vanquishedfool]

I have had these thoughts as well, I usually solo but I do create backstories for my characters and often use badges related to it.  I have one called Skyway Girl who is a receptionist at Crey Biotech in Skyway and got powers from her morning coffee.  Noticing she can do all of her work in a few minutes she got corporate's permission to use the extra hours as a hero around town.  I have had several people message me saying Crey is evil, which is valid from their point of view but I try to point out a few things.

 

Component parts for 99% of existing technology available.

Crey Cola - contains 90% sugar, 9% artificial coloring and 1% nanite. Was pulled by Crey pending further studies by the FDA.

Wound Wise - a special drug used to heal injuries. Used in hospitals worldwide. Many heroes (and possibly villains) use Wound Wise to deal with injuries during battle. Wound Wise is actually developed from the mutagen used to turn the Lost into the Rikti. Repeated use of Wound Wise is responsible for long-term cellular degeneration, and studies indicate that it may even cause skin cancer.

CreyComp - Crey's computer operating system. A sophisticated mind control program which uses subliminal messages to brainwash citizens into buying Crey products and adore Countess Crey.

Revenant Hero Project - part of Project: Locke, this data is not released to the general public. However, it does concern the well-being of missing heroes as well as the Paragon Protectors.

Hypothetical Framework - designed by Dr. Brainstorm, and mass-marketed by Crey Technologies. A blue-frame cube which can combine various salvage into new inventions which can increase a Hero or Villain's power. As Dr. Brainstorm is still alive, it is assumed he is paid by Crey Industries to allow marketing of his work.

Turrets - rotating mounted heavy guns designed for maximum security. Many groups, such as Longbow, Arachnos, Council, Malta, and more, have all purchased (or perhaps stolen) turret weaponry from Crey Industries.

Excelsior - an experimental physical booster program developed for the military, but stolen and used by the Freakshow.

RDF tracking implants - used to help monitor all Crey personnel while within a Crey building.

 

They make 99% of all invention salvage, Completely funded and partnered for all the invention tables, funded AE, and are considered the most respected company in the city.  It would be odd if your character didn't work for Crey or know someone that worked for Crey then the opposite.  Many bring outside character knowledge like Villian arcs into conversation or the Revenant Hero project.

 

 

Honestly it's like trying to boycott a company IRL, Crey literally makes nearly every piece of tech you use on a daily basis.  Lower level security heroes, or those who do not do certain arcs would have no idea of the shady underbelly so to speak.  Even currently the PR teams at Crey would keep the public second guessing these things even happened or the company was aware of them.

[chase]

Concur with Shadeknight.

 

There's plenty of cringeworthy moments in RP- I'm guilty of more than a few- and it can be challenging-- particularly for a team leader that's trying to also balance pacing (selecting the next contact/mission, setting it up in RP context, etc) with the character chatter and everyone's expectations on what they want out of the session.    sometimes you type something and cringe the moment it appears in chat

 

The other problem is a bit inherent in the genre: superheroic stories are often power fantasies.  They can attract people that WANT to feel powerful or confident or in-charge where most other people would feel overwhelmed.  In a cathartic way, people overwhelmed with the problems of the day may want to play a character that's on top of all that- a little personal wish fulfillment often creeps into the RP.  Yes, that risks some mary-sue-ness (useful term, but I hate it, mostly because I see it misused for female characters acting in a way that would be seen as OK/normal for a male, but that's not the case here, I just needed to vent that).

 

Its also possible that we misread context.  Imagine a character calls Crey corporation "evil."  Are they doing this from a place of omnipotent knowledge of paragonwiki or are they acting like the guy on the street railing on how evil Amazon.com is.  He still comes to that conclusion without knowing that Jeff Bezos is a lizard-man from the hollow earth bent of the enslavement of all surface-dwellers (probably).  When you step back and look at all that's really SAID in in-game RP, its' rarely enough to qualify as a short chapter in a book, despite how long it played out in-game.  That often means we're dealing with far less actual info and filling in a lot of blanks ourselves.

 

 

 

But I do often run into some of what you see.   

-I'd play a perpetually-broke starving college student but encounter a teammate gazillionaire that'll solve that whole character aspect with a diamond-black charge card. 

-I'd play someone who's struggling in a very VERY early on a journey into the arcane arts, only to have a powerful mage character take her under her wing, give her powerful magical artifacts, and make her awesome. 

- I'd play someone who's cobbled together a scrapwork battle armor that she barely keeps working (most of the time) to have a master mechanic fix it up. 

 

Come to think of it... all those examples were females being "helped" by males....  probably has nothing to do with it, right?

 

I apparently play "clueless" a little too well...

 

 

 

 

[Prototech]

Concur with Shadeknight.

 

There's plenty of cringeworthy moments in RP- I'm guilty of more than a few- and it can be challenging-- particularly for a team leader that's trying to also balance pacing (selecting the next contact/mission, setting it up in RP context, etc) with the character chatter and everyone's expectations on what they want out of the session.    sometimes you type something and cringe the moment it appears in chat

 

The other problem is a bit inherent in the genre: superheroic stories are often power fantasies.  They can attract people that WANT to feel powerful or confident or in-charge where most other people would feel overwhelmed.  In a cathartic way, people overwhelmed with the problems of the day may want to play a character that's on top of all that- a little personal wish fulfillment often creeps into the RP.  Yes, that risks some mary-sue-ness (useful term, but I hate it, mostly because I see it misused for female characters acting in a way that would be seen as OK/normal for a male, but that's not the case here, I just needed to vent that).

 

Its also possible that we misread context.  Imagine a character calls Crey corporation "evil."  Are they doing this from a place of omnipotent knowledge of paragonwiki or are they acting like the guy on the street railing on how evil Amazon.com is.  He still comes to that conclusion without knowing that Jeff Bezos is a lizard-man from the hollow earth bent of the enslavement of all surface-dwellers (probably).  When you step back and look at all that's really SAID in in-game RP, its' rarely enough to qualify as a short chapter in a book, despite how long it played out in-game.  That often means we're dealing with far less actual info and filling in a lot of blanks ourselves.

 

 

 

But I do often run into some of what you see.   

-I'd play a perpetually-broke starving college student but encounter a teammate gazillionaire that'll solve that whole character aspect with a diamond-black charge card. 

-I'd play someone who's struggling in a very VERY early on a journey into the arcane arts, only to have a powerful mage character take her under her wing, give her powerful magical artifacts, and make her awesome. 

- I'd play someone who's cobbled together a scrapwork battle armor that she barely keeps working (most of the time) to have a master mechanic fix it up. 

 

Come to think of it... all those examples were females being "helped" by males....  probably has nothing to do with it, right?

 

I apparently play "clueless" a little too well...

 

Well that must have been super frustrating... Those are definitely perfect examples though, I feel like there should be an understood rule about RP that impacts other characters. It really should be obvious, I mean an offer that would completely change the entire story of a character is RP breaking. I don't RP female characters so at least that would never affect me.

 

 

[Prototech]

Really though, why play a character that knows everything about every villain group and piece of lore? You're essentially yourself as a studied min maxed gamer in the game at that point. If we are playing through the opening chapters of the praetoria storylines, how does your character already know everything about the multiverse?

 

I know you're venting, but I still feel like addressing this; Some people don't play using the Security/Threat level stuff. There's also a lot of room for public knowledge, etc. It also needs to be said that the story for Praetoria is over more or less - the Praetors are defeated, the invasion has been shut down, and all thats left are pockets of resistance perhaps - and Devouring Earth. Now, if the team explicitly states they're pre-invasion then that's another thing entirely. RPing in teams can be a bit funky.

 

Now, again, there's a lot of public knowledge out there. Media is a big deal, as are books - which often contain information. As do reports for agencies, etc. So knowing everything, while a bit sketch, isnt as heinous in COH's universe. It's really up to the player - and some players may just be new and think OOC knowledge=IC knowledge. Other times, its people playing an older/veteran character.

 

Another example, at the end of a string of missions my character acted overwhelmed and the group leader gave the most cringe mary sue pep talk I could have imagined. It wasn't believable as their character, it's like the player was talking through directly.

 

Another example, dude got powers from a demon, talks about it like his bro gave him a skateboard. Now, that could be done right, but it was clearly just a lack of ability to RP. It was just a guy playing who was like 'RP, cool I guess, yeah I have time powers and stuff'

 

On the first, dialogue can sometimes be one of the hardest parts of roleplaying. What one sees as cringe (This word is horrid) or mary sue, the person might find to be the best they could do. After all, most of us aren't best-selling novelists ala GRRM or JKR.

 

On the second, sometimes characters are not going to be as you expect. Not all characters are the same. One character may be all blase about the demonic powers, and another will feel turmoil over it. It may not be lacking the ability to RP but more that they are new to it, or new to a superhero genre for RP - especially such an open-ended lore for what is possible.

 

If we are RPing through the story-line it has to be assumed those events have not happened yet. I mean you are giving the targets of my rant the benefit of the doubt in general. That's fine, you're a nice person :) ... Trust me though it's offensively annoying sometimes, sometimes maybe it's on me but I feel people should make the basic effort of "what would my char say?" when they approach RP.

[Prototech]

All those people having fun playing their game, it's just obscene, someone should put an end to it.

 

Maybe read the whole OP and see how my last paragraph removes the need for cliche replies of that nature.

[Prototech]

"People aren't playing the way I think they should.  Here's a list of things they are all doing wrong."

 

"Oh, it's okay though, I don't mean they should play the way I think they should, I just want to chastise them but without any responsibility for my own actions."

 

Sorry, that's not a great way to 'put feelers' out there.  Try a positive approach next time, you'll get more responses that will be in line with what you are 'putting feelers out there' for. Make some suggestions on how to bring up the level of RP in a positive way instead of accusing people who either have less experience or are less creatively able.  Contribute something instead of indicting, teach instead of scold.

 

... It's not like I'm naming anyone, why take it so personal? Your summary also makes it look far worse than it is, exaggeration to make a point.

 

I'm not scolding people in game, I just RP along and do hope people learn and appreciate my contribution. We are not in game RPing right now... right? Came here to get a sense of people feeling the same, that there is a lot of poor RP going on. I am not singling anyone out, there was no one scolded.

 

Bit ironic how you think I'm harsh and unfair, it's like we are two peas in a pod.

[Prototech]

Sorry, I'm just venting a little, having some problems with the way some things are presented on the forums.  It's not that I think anyone should change the way they present things on the forums, though, everyone should of course present things the way they feel is right for them.

 

Totally get it it, and I admit I am often guilty of arrogance etc. I did try to be fair and do totally believe people should enjoy things their way. Honestly made this post to see if there were more of my kind so I don't give up too much on RP. Looking for friends vs trying to change others.

 

Cheers

[Ruin Mage]

If we are RPing through the story-line it has to be assumed those events have not happened yet. I mean you are giving the targets of my rant the benefit of the doubt in general. That's fine, you're a nice person :) ... Trust me though it's offensively annoying sometimes, sometimes maybe it's on me but I feel people should make the basic effort of "what would my char say?" when they approach RP.

 

Assumptions make an ass out of you (and me, as the saying goes, but I'm not the one assuming) - I am giving people the benefit of the doubt for various reasons:

=> We all start somewhere

=> This game is new for a lot of people.

=> Some people are new to roleplaying (cycles back to the first point)

=> They might know any better, or they have a different idea of roleplay. Doesn't make them cringey or Mary Sues. Both are terms that need to die off, tbh.

 

that there is a lot of poor RP going on.

Only according to personal belief and standards of your own, rather than global standards. What is poor to you is what I'd describe is people who are either embracing the wide variety (that comic book/superhero genres entail) or being new to roleplaying - or some other reason. It's not poor to have fun or to make mistakes - both are entirely valid.

 

I feel like there should be an understood rule about RP that impacts other characters. It really should be obvious, I mean an offer that would completely change the entire story of a character is RP breaking.

 

There are no rules to roleplay except the ones followed within circles (i.e friend groups, supergroups, etc) - plus any rules that the server itself puts out (which is none, bar some very specific rules about where you roleplay/what you roleplay - targeting more adult or truly heinous things) - so yeah.

 

Some people do not quite understand what is and isn't roleplay breaking because its based on personal opinion. To them, having a character who can fix stuff is a-okay to them but they've never been told otherwise that "hey, this is all way too deus ex machina style." or such. That's the problem: You're not engaging them in a manner that would benefit their growth as a roleplayer. You, instead, chose to make a forum topic. To each their own, but you're only adding to your own personal problem.

 

[Coyotedancer]

I have to ask, Proto… Do you make a habit of actually reading all of the bios and remembering the details of them for all of the other characters on those RP pick-up teams? That can make a huge difference.

 

I don't think you and I have crossed paths in-game yet, but I'm going to use one of my own characters as an example here anyway, just because I suspect, under particular circumstances, that you'd end up accusing me of being one of those terrible Know-It-All players, too.

 

Imagine I'm on a character named Tavaris, and we were doing Circle missions when some questions or misunderstandings come up..

 

That particular character of mine would not only be able to answer those questions or correct those assumptions to a very fine level of detail, he would also be more than willing to. (He's a teacher. He'd see it as his job.) And it would become obvious pretty quickly that he knows much more on the subject of Oranbega and its people than would *ever*, in any way, even begin to pass the "common knowledge" sniff-test. 

 

If you were just looking at him, standing there in his very ordinary civilian outfit, seeming like nothing so much as a stereotypical History professor, or maybe some random Midnighter... You'd have that "OMG. Another one of THOSE types!" reaction. Unless you'd read his bio and remembered one particular detail it mentions.

 

That being that Tavaris is a Death Mage.

That information you think a character "shouldn't possibly know"? It's his day-to-day life. (Afterlife? Unlife? Postlife? XD)

OF COURSE he can read those ancient glyphs, or explain how a spirit thorn works, or talk about how the Oranbegans held off the Rikti who wanted to use their halls as a staging point during the war.

 

'Same for the moonlighting Crey scientist, or the disguised Rikti Mentalist spy, or the semi-reformed former Skulls Death Doll... or whatever... being able to talk about Uncommon knowledge with authority. Some characters really do have every right to know more than Joe Average-Hero.

 

Now, if they're being really silly about it and don't have one of those kind of characters, I might join you in raising an eyebrow... But some degree of cheeseball is to be expected on a public server. That's just the nature of the beast. Just be wary of painting with over-broad brushes, though. Even if they haven't gotten around to writing a detailed biography yet, there may be more going on with that character than just OOC Knowledge infecting IC Play. 

[Prototech]

If we are RPing through the story-line it has to be assumed those events have not happened yet. I mean you are giving the targets of my rant the benefit of the doubt in general. That's fine, you're a nice person :) ... Trust me though it's offensively annoying sometimes, sometimes maybe it's on me but I feel people should make the basic effort of "what would my char say?" when they approach RP.

 

Assumptions make an ass out of you (and me, as the saying goes, but I'm not the one assuming) - I am giving people the benefit of the doubt for various reasons:

=> We all start somewhere

=> This game is new for a lot of people.

=> Some people are new to roleplaying (cycles back to the first point)

=> They might know any better, or they have a different idea of roleplay. Doesn't make them cringey or Mary Sues. Both are terms that need to die off, tbh.

 

that there is a lot of poor RP going on.

Only according to personal belief and standards of your own, rather than global standards. What is poor to you is what I'd describe is people who are either embracing the wide variety (that comic book/superhero genres entail) or being new to roleplaying - or some other reason. It's not poor to have fun or to make mistakes - both are entirely valid.

 

I feel like there should be an understood rule about RP that impacts other characters. It really should be obvious, I mean an offer that would completely change the entire story of a character is RP breaking.

 

There are no rules to roleplay except the ones followed within circles (i.e friend groups, supergroups, etc) - plus any rules that the server itself puts out (which is none, bar some very specific rules about where you roleplay/what you roleplay - targeting more adult or truly heinous things) - so yeah.

 

Some people do not quite understand what is and isn't roleplay breaking because its based on personal opinion. To them, having a character who can fix stuff is a-okay to them but they've never been told otherwise that "hey, this is all way too deus ex machina style." or such. That's the problem: You're not engaging them in a manner that would benefit their growth as a roleplayer. You, instead, chose to make a forum topic. To each their own, but you're only adding to your own personal problem.

 

Ok you just went full hippie and totally lost me in the first part of your post then you went narrow minded judging and making assumptions about me in the end. To each their own as you say.

[chase]

 

I feel like there should be an understood rule about RP that impacts other characters. It really should be obvious, I mean an offer that would completely change the entire story of a character is RP breaking.

 

There are no rules to roleplay except the ones followed within circles (i.e friend groups, supergroups, etc) - plus any rules that the server itself puts out (which is none, bar some very specific rules about where you roleplay/what you roleplay - targeting more adult or truly heinous things) - so yeah.

 

Some people do not quite understand what is and isn't roleplay breaking because its based on personal opinion. To them, having a character who can fix stuff is a-okay to them but they've never been told otherwise that "hey, this is all way too deus ex machina style." or such. That's the problem: You're not engaging them in a manner that would benefit their growth as a roleplayer. You, instead, chose to make a forum topic. To each their own, but you're only adding to your own personal problem.

 

I feel that's being a bit too argumentative here.  The post, while advocating that person's perspective, was a way to engage with and discuss this among the community.

 

RP communities have unspoken words about RP'ing live-changing (or ending) events on other RP'ers, after all.  This is just suggesting that the same courtesy be applied to broader narrative arcs.

 

 

In the example you're quoting, Prototech was responding to my post, so I'll use my example here further.

 

Yes, if someone's playing the benevolent financial master that can spend whatever and are willing to share it with whoever, they can feel stifled and snubbed in your roleplaying opportunities when *I* don't want you to offer my starving college student a full tuition, living expenses, and an open account at icon to update my costume.  On the other hand, if I took the time to RP out that character's problem, though, I probably didn't want it hand-waved away into oblivion with a 1 minute gesture.

 

That's a problem.  The solution was applied without OOC, without any telegraphing, and with a finality that showed little consideration for some of the themes I may be seeking to express with my character. 

 

 

Granted, I could easily retcon that experience away and keep my character poor once that fleeting RP encounter is gone... assuming it was just a fleeting encounter and not a RP supergroup I intended to join and that player may feel snubbed if we encounter each other later.

 

 

 

Same goes for the guy that fixes things. 

 

In that one, he jumped in "fixing" things and presenting them as perfectly new without any OOC comments or requests.  He actually got insulted when I had some things fizzle back out because "stuff my character fixes don't break like that"  His RP not only redefined an aspect of the character but he tried to then impose his character's RP characteristics on my RP. 

 

OOC the player you're about to transform... or telegraph the intent in smaller slower batches that can be intercepted and changed.  "walk over and examine the suit" gives you an out (didn't have tools, didn't have time, seemed strange design choices that could take hours to unravel) if someone objects in time.

 

It shouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that such things be the norm.

 

 

[Prototech]

I have to ask, Proto… Do you make a habit of actually reading all of the bios and remembering the details of them for all of the other characters on those RP pick-up teams? That can make a huge difference.

 

I don't think you and I have crossed paths in-game yet, but I'm going to use one of my own characters as an example here anyway, just because I suspect, under particular circumstances, that you'd end up accusing me of being one of those terrible Know-It-All players, too.

 

Imagine I'm on a character named Tavaris, and we were doing Circle missions when some questions or misunderstandings come up..

 

That particular character of mine would not only be able to answer those questions or correct those assumptions to a very fine level of detail, he would also be more than willing to. (He's a teacher. He'd see it as his job.) And it would become obvious pretty quickly that he knows much more on the subject of Oranbega and its people than would *ever*, in any way, even begin to pass the "common knowledge" sniff-test. 

 

If you were just looking at him, standing there in his very ordinary civilian outfit, seeming like nothing so much as a stereotypical History professor, or maybe some random Midnighter... You'd have that "OMG. Another one of THOSE types!" reaction. Unless you'd read his bio and remembered one particular detail it mentions.

 

That being that Tavaris is a Death Mage.

That information you think a character "shouldn't possibly know"? It's his day-to-day life. (Afterlife? Unlife? Postlife? XD)

OF COURSE he can read those ancient glyphs, or explain how a spirit thorn works, or talk about how the Oranbegans held off the Rikti who wanted to use their halls as a staging point during the war.

 

'Same for the moonlighting Crey scientist, or the disguised Rikti Mentalist spy, or the semi-reformed former Skulls Death Doll... or whatever... being able to talk about Uncommon knowledge with authority. Some characters really do have every right to know more than Joe Average-Hero.

 

Now, if they're being really silly about it and don't have one of those kind of characters, I might join you in raising an eyebrow... But some degree of cheeseball is to be expected on a public server. That's just the nature of the beast. Just be wary of painting with over-broad brushes, though. Even if they haven't gotten around to writing a detailed biography yet, there may be more going on with that character than just OOC Knowledge infecting IC Play.

 

I read them, especially if doing multiple missions.

 

I guess I should clarify, I'm not talking about EVERYONE I have RPed with. This is an issue but it's not universal.

 

I'm surprised, a LOT of people are taking this either partly personally or completely. Was the OP really that aggressive, totally taken aback about some of the reactions I'm getting.

 

Look I mean I'm on a team of 8, and I RP a character that has questions right and EVERY other char knows everything. They don't even convey the info in an IC way, it's like they are copy pasting from the wiki. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about when it comes to the lore point I made.

 

Some of my characters know things, many of them don't really want to even talk about it. I have a char that's so self absorbed he simply doesn't  share the things he does know and that becomes part of the RP. I mean there are 100 ways to be interesting. Again many are, I am just frustrated by some percentage of the population of RPers that just mary sue it or RP themselves.

[Prototech]

 

I feel like there should be an understood rule about RP that impacts other characters. It really should be obvious, I mean an offer that would completely change the entire story of a character is RP breaking.

 

There are no rules to roleplay except the ones followed within circles (i.e friend groups, supergroups, etc) - plus any rules that the server itself puts out (which is none, bar some very specific rules about where you roleplay/what you roleplay - targeting more adult or truly heinous things) - so yeah.

 

Some people do not quite understand what is and isn't roleplay breaking because its based on personal opinion. To them, having a character who can fix stuff is a-okay to them but they've never been told otherwise that "hey, this is all way too deus ex machina style." or such. That's the problem: You're not engaging them in a manner that would benefit their growth as a roleplayer. You, instead, chose to make a forum topic. To each their own, but you're only adding to your own personal problem.

 

I feel that's being a bit too argumentative here.  The post, while advocating that person's perspective, was a way to engage with and discuss this among the community.

 

RP communities have unspoken words about RP'ing live-changing (or ending) events on other RP'ers, after all.  This is just suggesting that the same courtesy be applied to broader narrative arcs.

 

 

In the example you're quoting, Prototech was responding to my post, so I'll use my example here further.

 

Yes, if someone's playing the benevolent financial master that can spend whatever and are willing to share it with whoever, they can feel stifled and snubbed in your roleplaying opportunities when *I* don't want you to offer my starving college student a full tuition, living expenses, and an open account at icon to update my costume.  On the other hand, if I took the time to RP out that character's problem, though, I probably didn't want it hand-waved away into oblivion with a 1 minute gesture.

 

That's a problem.  The solution was applied without OOC, without any telegraphing, and with a finality that showed little consideration for some of the themes I may be seeking to express with my character. 

 

 

Granted, I could easily retcon that experience away and keep my character poor once that fleeting RP encounter is gone... assuming it was just a fleeting encounter and not a RP supergroup I intended to join and that player may feel snubbed if we encounter each other later.

 

 

 

Same goes for the guy that fixes things. 

 

In that one, he jumped in "fixing" things and presenting them as perfectly new without any OOC comments or requests.  He actually got insulted when I had some things fizzle back out because "stuff my character fixes don't break like that"  His RP not only redefined an aspect of the character but he tried to then impose his character's RP characteristics on my RP. 

 

OOC the player you're about to transform... or telegraph the intent in smaller slower batches that can be intercepted and changed.  "walk over and examine the suit" gives you an out (didn't have tools, didn't have time, seemed strange design choices that could take hours to unravel) if someone objects in time.

 

It shouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that such things be the norm.

 

Thanks, I'm glad to have this sort of discussion happen in the thread. I feel you are presenting a constructive spin on my rant. What you are saying is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to communicate to the larger RP community as efficiently as possible. I believe that would alleviate the situation I'm seeing. To everyone else, I do apologize if my critical nature is offensive, I'm just like that.

[daHob]

Something to bear in mind; while everyone has pet peeves, if you want an RP community to survive, you have to be tolerant of terrible RP. You have to be a place where people can risk RP and not get burned if it falls apart. Role-playing is silly and a lot of people are terrified of looking foolish.

 

RP thrives where there is no fear.

 

 

[Panache]

I think the only way you're ever going to get a 'satisficient' level of RP is to join a themed group, or establish a small circle of close allies/friends with similar RP styles.

[justicebeliever]

Something to bear in mind; while everyone has pet peeves, if you want an RP community to survive, you have to be tolerant of terrible RP. You have to be a place where people can risk RP and not get burned if it falls apart. Role-playing is silly and a lot of people are terrified of looking foolish.

 

RP thrives where there is no fear.

 

+1 Inf...

[Prototech]

Something to bear in mind; while everyone has pet peeves, if you want an RP community to survive, you have to be tolerant of terrible RP. You have to be a place where people can risk RP and not get burned if it falls apart. Role-playing is silly and a lot of people are terrified of looking foolish.

 

RP thrives where there is no fear.

 

Maybe that explains  the overreactions to this thread. I mean I totally agree with you though, I don't think my pet peeve and tolerating all RP are mutually exclusive.

[justicebeliever]

Something to bear in mind; while everyone has pet peeves, if you want an RP community to survive, you have to be tolerant of terrible RP. You have to be a place where people can risk RP and not get burned if it falls apart. Role-playing is silly and a lot of people are terrified of looking foolish.

 

RP thrives where there is no fear.

 

Maybe that explains  the overreactions to this thread. I mean I totally agree with you though, I don't think my pet peeve and tolerating all RP are mutually exclusive.

 

That's very fair Prototech.  We have to learn to tolerate our pet peeves, because in many cases it isn't because the other person has a malicious intent.  I can't stand l33t speak in text messages (or much anywhere), but I deal with it internally, because no one is doing it specifically to set me off...

 

 

[Zolgar]

I just want to mention, the knowledge bit comes up a lot in this game..

 

This isn't a fantasy RPG where there's large portions of the world unexplored, where communication across a span of a few miles or more takes sometimes months to reach its destination without aid of magic.

 

This is modern times with super-hero level tech.

 

We have cell phones and the internet and instantaneous communication across practically the entire globe. We have speedsters who can deliver a message in person almost as fast as you could call the recipient. We have Google.

 

Any hero who is from the current day and age of the game, is probably going to be pretty well versed in at least the basics of the assorted villain groups they're going to face.

 

Same with knowing the name of a hero, unless you specifically state in your bio that you're an unknown, I am going to assume that your characters existence is public knowledge ('hero name', and general capabilities).

 

And you literally have to just accept the wibbly wobbly nature of the games timeline.

I have a character whose mother died in the Praetorian war.

That character has done a Sutter TF, which takes place early in the Praetorian War- when this character was like 8 years old.

 

So if I were RPing in that TF, for whoever was leading, the Praetorian War is current, for my character it is history.

In character, most of my characters know Statesman is dead.

What happens if I am RPing with someone who is in the middle of the Who Will Die? arc? For that person, States is still alive.

 

The very nature of this game makes timelines impossible.

[justicebeliever]

Zolgar, those are excellent points.  And even in going through the game you get briefings on most of the zones and villain groups, so knowing a lot of this is part of your character exploring those zones and getting the info.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Lets begin with the obvious, TIME TRAVEL. Especially when I am exemping down, I treat it as having traveled into the past. Doing some historical research or a mending job.

 

My main Bentley Berkeley is an immortal, who is also a founding midnighter, and literally has seen and dealt with certain villain groups for a long bloody time. He is also a full spectrum psionic. Meaning not just telepathy and telekinesis and teleportation but also clairvoyance, Pre and Post cognition, Psychometry and even Data linking with computers. And that is in addition to being an ancient wizard versed in both Mu and Circle magic.

 

I made this character concept around year 2 of live specifically because I wanted a good mentor character who was in game  going to know most of what I know as a lore nerd. He knows the war with the rikti is a nemesis plot, he suspected long before it was confirmed that Statesman was little more then an avatar of Zeus not to be trusted.

 

Now not every character of mine is like that. My character Skylord is hero who was fostered b y the elderly galaxy girl and who suffers severe PTSD from the first rikti invasion. He hates Rikti uncompromisingly, is a soldier in a war with no end in sight and is basically the punisher with super powers. He ignores any truth offered about the Rikti being manipulated or just doesnt care. For him the Rikti have 2 choices, leave earth entirely or die.

 

So there is a place for lore based RP both giving one plenty if insight, and a place for it to be a reason for a character to have blinders on.

 

I especially agree with the point made in this thread by Vanquished Fool about Crey. the vast majority of people should treat crey as not bad guys, and the fact they attack you in game being used to see them as bad is abit too meta imo. I tend to treat it more as we are trespassing and they are legally justified to attack us.

 

Also for good or bad, it is a matter of lore that the Paragon Protectors are the reason the Rikti didnt win. When heroes fell in mass, it was the blue and gold mass produced soldiers that filled the gap and held the line. I tend to view Crey as a rogue faction at worst and maybe even as a vigilante faction seeing beings like Statesman and his cronies as a far bigger threat to earth then anything else.

 

Same with the Circle of Thorns, when one looks at the lore surrounding them, one could say they were the first heroes fighting against tyrannical gods intent on using their power to subjugate humanity. Now yes they made pacts with demons, but as Ive oft said as T'keron Valmaz, its not demonkinds fault the only things of value humans had to offer were flesh.blood, and soul. You wouldnt take sand instead of gold dust would you? Nor was it they that made the mages grow so desperate for life ever lasting and a rage to avenge themselves that drove them to become body snatching ghosts. We can literally lay that at the feet of Tilekku and her zealot Hequat. Which is funny since they use Tilekku as some good entity in the DA arc. She was the first great villain against humanity not really any better then the so called evil gods she Banished like Mot.

[Ruin Mage]

Don't think the topic was particularly lore RP, but more so generally what the player sees as doesn't meet their standard and was looking for others who experienced such.

 

I may be missing the mark a little, but oh well.