A relook at support powers

[CoeruleumBlue]

29 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Then you need to re-evaluate the powers you are prioritizing on your Scrappers, the enhancement slots you are assigning to said powers, the enhancements you are putting in said slots, and/or your approach to combat with the mobs defeating you.

 

My scrappers who die at level 1 can't use a bunch of enhancements. All the good ones are locked to at least level 17. Wait, we have another thread about that. 

[Jiro Ito]

On 11/15/2025 at 7:07 PM, MsSmart said:

Earlier during live, I had always had an issue with powers that a player could only use on others and never be able to use upon themselves,  like I know how to heal everybody, but I too darn stupid to heal myself! I can boost your con, but have no earthly idea to boost myself, seems intellectually stupid.

 

I can get the background reason, during live and the old days, the developers wanted the support to focus on being support, like a movie needs support cast who will never be stars. And in those old days as the classes, were designed, it made sense. But that was in "those days", now all the melee for instance, have been refurbished, given IOs sets that frankly they can go about dealing chaos havoc and destruction without any need for support at all, not even remotely. So with this in mind, why not let the support benefit from their own abilities?

 

I know, there will be the crowd that will loudly cry, that will break the balance! Sadly that balance you so cherish, was broken long ago. In fact by allowing the support from benefiting from their own abilities, is in fact reducing the unbalance gap.

 

Any thoughts, only looking for an intellectual discussion here, not really an endorsement or otherwise

 

 

To compensate, all buff percentages and damage for the ATs who have support powers would get nerfed.  Hard pass.  If you aren't finding support powers useful for teammates, I'll suggest you're not playing hard enough content.  Otherwise, there are plenty of options for ATs that buff only themselves.

[TheMoneyMaker]

59 minutes ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

 

Why would that make any sense at all whatsoever? If the enemy is weakened by a raygun or a psychic scream or getting hit by a boulder or whatever they are objectively weakened. The powers that don't work on yourself were mostly just based on Empathy and the idea that you have to have an empathic link. What next, do you want Controller, Defender, and Corruptor powers to not do damage, or get rid of the -rech and -tohit since that gives you extra protection too? This is the stupidest idea I have ever heard. I want powers to represent real things happening, not totally video-game-ified mechanics like "if you're a support class your powers can't help yourself at all" even though they were always designed to help yourself, even some of the powers in Empathy. 

I'm not saying it makes sense. I only suggested it because if we're looking at balance and we're not going to let some sets benefit the user while others can, then take away from those who get the benefit. Then people will complain more about the loss than they are about lack of gains.

 

Also, there are plenty of sets with powers that don't benefit the user, not just Empathy. 

[Jacke]

 

1 hour ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

My scrappers all suck by themselves because they keep dying and my defenders are great by themselves because they don't. There's a joke I've heard, "controllers and defenders get pets starting at level 1, they're called scrappers." 

 

27 minutes ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

My scrappers who die at level 1 can't use a bunch of enhancements. All the good ones are locked to at least level 17. Wait, we have another thread about that. 

 

If you have any Toon getting defeated at L1, you're doing something wrong.  I always run the Tutorial, the ones with a Badge (different ones for Blueside, Redside, and Goldside) and only start in missions at L2.  But it's not that tough, even in tougher-than-usual Goldside.

 

Blasters have the motto "Blasters!  Face-down and PROUD!" because it's so easy to get in over your head when you're shooting AoE attacks and attracting a lot of aggro.  Not as bad now with Sustain Powers that give enough net Recovery and Regeneration to keep going.  Any Toon can get in over its head once things start getting serious between Levels 5 and 15.  So you learn how to avoid that.  And have the right Inspirations to deal with emergencies and know what else to do to get out of a jam.  Teaming is similar, but then it's the Team which can get in over its head.  Or one or two Toons can go off on their own and bite off more than they can chew.  Important to learn how to deal with these.

 

 

[Ghost]

9 hours ago, MsSmart said:

Now we are making progress, you do not want all ATs to be equally powerful, despite they would accomplish it in different ways? Just because ATs are equally powerful, does not mean their contribution is identical to any others, just equal in effectiveness. Have you considered, if the ATs were truly balanced, equal, where a controller has the 50/50 chance of beating a tank for example, then PvP would not need weird biased balancing acts, and could be a true go in and get it done, sounds like fun ah?

You’re talking to someone that enjoys playing squishies as squishies.

I do not play defenders and brag about my tanking ability.  I play defenders knowing that whatever team I am on will stay alive, not worry about needing anything, and will succeed.

I enjoy the challenge of knowing that one wrong move will result in a face plant.

So no.  What you’re proposing does not sound like fun to me.

 

If I understood you correctly, part of your argument is that the support class is not really needed anymore due to the increases in survivability of the other classes.

So, Wouldnt increasing the survivability of the classes that historically relied on the melee classes to manage aggro, suddenly make those classes (tanks/brutes) become less necessary?

Wouldn’t that ultimately end the need to team up?  Or, is that the ultimate goal here?

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:14 AM by Ghost

[tidge]

8 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

 

My scrappers who die at level 1 can't use a bunch of enhancements. All the good ones are locked to at least level 17. Wait, we have another thread about that. 

 

This sounds like a "driver, not car" issue.

 

Five different S.T.A.R.T. enhancements can be slotted at level 1, so I am not even sure what the complaint is.

[Skyhawke]

8 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

 

My scrappers who die at level 1 can't use a bunch of enhancements. All the good ones are locked to at least level 17. Wait, we have another thread about that. 

 

This is where this argument loses all credibility. Really? Support powers need a revamp because a Scrapper can't survive at level 1? As the kids say, "skill issue". 

[Psyonico]

9 hours ago, CoeruleumBlue said:

 

My scrappers all suck by themselves because they keep dying and my defenders are great by themselves because they don't. There's a joke I've heard, "controllers and defenders get pets starting at level 1, they're called scrappers." 

What are you doing at level 1 that you're doing so easily on *any* character?

[Skyhawke]

1 minute ago, Psyonico said:

What are you doing at level 1 that you're doing so easily on *any* character?

 

Dying, apparently. 😁

[Psyonico]

2 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

 

Dying, apparently. 😁

Gotta love autocorrect.  That was supposed to be dying, not doing.

[MsSmart]

On 11/19/2025 at 5:09 AM, Ghost said:

You’re talking to someone that enjoys playing squishies as squishies.

I do not play defenders and brag about my tanking ability.  I play defenders knowing that whatever team I am on will stay alive, not worry about needing anything, and will succeed.

I enjoy the challenge of knowing that one wrong move will result in a face plant.

So no.  What you’re proposing does not sound like fun to me.

 

If I understood you correctly, part of your argument is that the support class is not really needed anymore due to the increases in survivability of the other classes.

So, Wouldnt increasing the survivability of the classes that historically relied on the melee classes to manage aggro, suddenly make those classes (tanks/brutes) become less necessary?

Wouldn’t that ultimately end the need to team up?  Or, is that the ultimate goal here?

 

 

Melee at the moment are very important in a team, in fact they tend to be the star in this action movie. The change to allow them to affect themselves, is a logical one, but despite that they can buff themselves, they will hardly become more survivable than melee who were in the PBAOE and are enhanced themselves by as much (so the power differential in favor to the melee remains), all is happening is the degree of brittleness and at times helplessness is decreased for the support. Let me provide an example, say an emp PBAOEs clear mind, the Defender goes from a protection of 0 to 4, while the Tanks 12 rises to 16, I just can't see how anyone claims the defender became tougher than the tank.

[CoeruleumBlue]

2 hours ago, MsSmart said:

Melee at the moment are very important in a team, in fact they tend to be the star in this action movie. The change to allow them to affect themselves, is a logical one, but despite that they can buff themselves, they will hardly become more survivable than melee who were in the PBAOE and are enhanced themselves by as much (so the power differential in favor to the melee remains), all is happening is the degree of brittleness and at times helplessness is decreased for the support. Let me provide an example, say an emp PBAOEs clear mind, the Defender goes from a protection of 0 to 4, while the Tanks 12 rises to 16, I just can't see how anyone claims the defender became tougher than the tank.

 

I mean I wouldn't want Clear Mind to be a PBAoE, I would want it to stay single-target, just let you use it on yourself. Like I said above I don't want all the sets to become exactly the same, I just don't find it as attractive to play the support sets where you can't use every buff or heal on yourself when there are ones you can. 

[Ghost]

10 hours ago, MsSmart said:

Melee at the moment are very important in a team, in fact they tend to be the star in this action movie. The change to allow them to affect themselves, is a logical one, but despite that they can buff themselves, they will hardly become more survivable than melee who were in the PBAOE and are enhanced themselves by as much (so the power differential in favor to the melee remains), all is happening is the degree of brittleness and at times helplessness is decreased for the support. Let me provide an example, say an emp PBAOEs clear mind, the Defender goes from a protection of 0 to 4, while the Tanks 12 rises to 16, I just can't see how anyone claims the defender became tougher than the tank.

Who is saying a defender became tougher than the tank?

 

My point is that currently, to successfully play a true squishy (not one built to be a “pretend” tank) it is very beneficial to have a melee toon on the team to occupy the aggro.

If you take away the squishiness, haven’t you just taken away the usefulness of the melee toons?  The EXACT same thing you mentioned happening to defenders when they buffed melee.

 

Again, this sounds like a great benefit for soloing and counterproductive for teaming, which is great if that’s your objective.

I prefer teaming, for more than just watching 8 players all go off in their own direction, doing their own thing.

 

Me personally, I don’t want this game to get to a point where you can just blindly pick any AT, and then just go through missions/TFs blindly mashing buttons with absolutely no thought for strategy.

I know others feel differently.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Ghost

[Maelwys]

On 11/19/2025 at 12:53 PM, Skyhawke said:

On 11/19/2025 at 4:05 AM, CoeruleumBlue said:

My scrappers who die at level 1 can't use a bunch of enhancements. All the good ones are locked to at least level 17.

As the kids say, "skill issue". 

Possibly a knowledge thing too.

Some new players just plain don't realise that slotting Single Origin Enhancements (especially Accuracy, Damage and EndRed) is a very good idea - at least before common IOs start drawing level with + outpacing them circa levels 25-30. Or insist on setting their difficulty sliders to maximum when it's blatantly obvious that they can't yet handle it.
 

Edited 3 hours ago by Maelwys

[arcane]

Some days I think I might be the only person on the planet that has made basic observations about this game’s balancing, like “Oh I see they made this power only affect allies, but I see the numbers on that power are stronger for that reason specifically”. I don’t know why so many can’t see this stuff.

[Gerswin Jr]

14 minutes ago, arcane said:

Some days I think I might be the only person on the planet that has made basic observations about this game’s balancing, like “Oh I see they made this power only affect allies, but I see the numbers on that power are stronger for that reason specifically”. I don’t know why so many can’t see this stuff.

 

There are plenty of people that understand game balance and the nuances of team vs individual challenges.  Most of us just don't make a habit of flooding the suggestions forum with stupid ideas or spend time arguing with those that do.

[Arbegla]

If you want to play a support AT, and actually use your support powers while solo, might I recommend a Mastermind? You have between 1 and 6 pets to keep alive and buff with your support powers. From what I understand, Masterminds have access to all of the support powersets, so you can really play any support you want, and just have the pets be your 'team'.