Listen to Feedback: Sonic Melee Not Ready

[Steampunkette]

MMORPGs, just like any game design role, puts developers in a really rough position.

 

1) Appeal to the Majority of Players

You've got to aim for the masses. If you don't, your product won't sell. Sure, for CoH "Selling" it is less about getting actual return on investment and more about maintaining or growing the established playerbase, but the principle remains. And with an MMORPG in particular you need the widest possible appeal in order to maintain numbers at a level that keeps the game moving since you need a lot of people playing at the same time.

 

2) Create and Establish Fun Material

Whether it's a character class, a new powerset, a mission, or a campaign setting, you've got to create new material and establish it in a world where there's already other material to enjoy. Without new things to do, and new ways to do things, all the balance in the world and all the appeal in the world won't matter: People will get bored. Humans are more complicated than rats, a shock I know, and require a Skinner Box with more buttons to press and different kinds of treats to enjoy.

 

3) Maintain Balance

Without game balance, the game loses its fun quickly. Either it's too hard or time consuming for a significant portion of the playerbase (which is what happened to Wildstar) or it's way too easy and the players lose interest in a game they quickly 'Beat'. There's a reason people love cheat codes but almost immediately lose interest after typing in IDKFA a few times. Power Creep is real.

 

4) Work Within Budget Constraints

This is where Homecoming is absolutely between a rock and a hard place. They have a budget of "However much time people are willing to put in to help." which really isn't a lot. So creating new animations, vfx, costume pieces, model resources, etc is pretty well off the table for most stuff. Recycling what exists is the name of the game as we've all seen.

 

Sonic Melee is a great example of these four issues in play.

 

1) Mass Appeal.

There's 4 archetypes that can use Sonic Melee.

 

2) Create and Establish Fun Material.

Attune is new tech designed to interact with player choice and ramp damage against a hard target encouraging a new playstyle.

 

3) Maintain Balance.

Gotta find the right values to keep it from being as well loved for value as Kinetic Melee and aesthetics as Sonic Blast.

 

4) Work Within Budget Constraints.

Pretty much entirely made of reworked extant assets.

 

 

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

Saying a power will release as is and can be worked on later, I don't think is bad stance to take. Especially when it's a timing and scheduling issue versus a freaking holiday time period. LOL

Here's the problem with that last part though:  Nobody said they have to release a second page right now.

 

This would work if this were a job and there was a legitimate deadline. Neither of these are true. Working on a power after release is expected ofc. It's the way everything has been handled surrounding attune and the digging the heels in the sand that has left folks disgruntled. If they want to? Perfectly fine, but don't expect or have the audacity to demand people be okay with it and not voice their opinion with "dont like it dont play it". Thats what children do.*

 

*For those who have used that statement in this thread. 

 

Thats been the whole issue this entire time. But as an aside you all have got to stop pretending this is a real job and not some afternoon hobby project for the devs. Had me scratching my head when people kept mentioning this Holiday BS when it's not even a real job lmao

 

 

[Super Atom]

I think what would really help sonic melee is if coyote form could be used with your travel powers

 

 

 

🥰

 

 

 

[golstat2003]

24 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Here's the problem with that last part though:  Nobody said they have to release a second page right now.

 

This would work if this were a job and there was a legitimate deadline. Neither of these are true. Working on a power after release is expected ofc. It's the way everything has been handled surrounding attune and the digging the heels in the sand that has left folks disgruntled. If they want to? Perfectly fine, but don't expect or have the audacity to demand people be okay with it and not voice their opinion with "dont like it dont play it". Thats what children do.*

 

*For those who have used that statement in this thread. 

 

Thats been the whole issue this entire time. But as an aside you all have got to stop pretending this is a real job and not some afternoon hobby project for the devs. Had me scratching my head when people kept mentioning this Holiday BS when it's not even a real job lmao

 

 

 

Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree. We obviously are seeing different things between this thread and the Open beta feedback thread. Have a great day.

[ShardWarrior]

18 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Perfectly fine, but don't expect or have the audacity to demand people be okay with it and not voice their opinion with "dont like it dont play it". Thats what children do.*

 

No one has suggested that people should not voice their concerns.  No one. 

 

What has been said in this regard and what "if you do not like it, do not play it" actually means is that all of the complaints and forum posts and rantings about Attune or whatever other complaints have not convinced HC to change their minds.  The set is going to be released as is and will be addressed at a later date.  HC holds all the cards here and they are not going to budge.  They have a schedule they want to keep and they are going to stick to it, simple as that.  There is no changing it at this point, so further complaining is not solving anything, and at least to me looks as if this has done little more than to cause HC dig their heels in.  

 

Until such time the set is fixed later, you have the option to play the set or not.  If you want to keep shouting into the wind hoping someone will hear you, go right ahead.  Personally, I do not see it moving the dial.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Please don't post memes to pick fights.  I just hid a few.

 

Argue the points with respect for the opposing viewpoint.  It's a good skill to learn that is all too absent in the world these days.  You can disagree without being disagreeable or calling folks names.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

MMORPGs, just like any game design role, puts developers in a really rough position.

 

1) Appeal to the Majority of Players

You've got to aim for the masses. If you don't, your product won't sell. Sure, for CoH "Selling" it is less about getting actual return on investment and more about maintaining or growing the established playerbase, but the principle remains. And with an MMORPG in particular you need the widest possible appeal in order to maintain numbers at a level that keeps the game moving since you need a lot of people playing at the same time.

 

2) Create and Establish Fun Material

Whether it's a character class, a new powerset, a mission, or a campaign setting, you've got to create new material and establish it in a world where there's already other material to enjoy. Without new things to do, and new ways to do things, all the balance in the world and all the appeal in the world won't matter: People will get bored. Humans are more complicated than rats, a shock I know, and require a Skinner Box with more buttons to press and different kinds of treats to enjoy.

 

3) Maintain Balance

Without game balance, the game loses its fun quickly. Either it's too hard or time consuming for a significant portion of the playerbase (which is what happened to Wildstar) or it's way too easy and the players lose interest in a game they quickly 'Beat'. There's a reason people love cheat codes but almost immediately lose interest after typing in IDKFA a few times. Power Creep is real.

 

4) Work Within Budget Constraints

This is where Homecoming is absolutely between a rock and a hard place. They have a budget of "However much time people are willing to put in to help." which really isn't a lot. So creating new animations, vfx, costume pieces, model resources, etc is pretty well off the table for most stuff. Recycling what exists is the name of the game as we've all seen.

 

Sonic Melee is a great example of these four issues in play.

 

1) Mass Appeal.

There's 4 archetypes that can use Sonic Melee.

 

2) Create and Establish Fun Material.

Attune is new tech designed to interact with player choice and ramp damage against a hard target encouraging a new playstyle.

 

3) Maintain Balance.

Gotta find the right values to keep it from being as well loved for value as Kinetic Melee and aesthetics as Sonic Blast.

 

4) Work Within Budget Constraints.

Pretty much entirely made of reworked extant assets.

 

 

 

Did you just AI-splain?! It looks accurate but the formatting is sus... 6/7

 

(I am actually curious if you used AI)

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Troo

[Wravis]

8 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

No one has suggested that people should not voice their concerns.  No one. 

 

What has been said in this regard and what "if you do not like it, do not play it" actually means is that all of the complaints and forum posts and rantings about Attune or whatever other complaints have not convinced HC to change their minds.  The set is going to be released as is and will be addressed at a later date.  HC holds all the cards here and they are not going to budge.  They have a schedule they want to keep and they are going to stick to it, simple as that.  There is no changing it at this point, so further complaining is not solving anything, and at least to me looks as if this has done little more than to cause HC dig their heels in.  

 

Until such time the set is fixed later, you have the option to play the set or not.  If you want to keep shouting into the wind hoping someone will hear you, go right ahead.  Personally, I do not see it moving the dial.

I disagree with your first statement. 

However, the part I highlighted, I definitely agree with. And that's a consistent pattern and problem with the development and testing of this game. And that's part of what I mean when I say they do not listen. It's back to the analogy I made of being one the phone and going "uh huh, uh huh, mhmm" until the person stops talking and hangs up. Once the developers have made up their mind on something, they stop actively listening. Sure, they'll keep the discussion going, but not with any intention of actually considering any feedback.

And this thread, and my reactions, and criticisms, have all primarily been about how I feel that this was the state of their willingness to accept feedback from the start. There was never going to be serious consideration of dramatic changes. There was not going to be enough time for that. They knew the deadline was November. They chose to push it out for testing with only two weeks, because that's enough time to tweak numbers. People went into the testing with the assumption that there would time for testing. People put time into testing and providing feedback. What we got was an abrupt "okay that's done now, we don't have time for big changes. Maybe later."

Why? Was it that they thought it would be an easy win for a marquee feature to make the patch look more rich in content? Was it that they were so confident in their internal testing they couldn't fathom anyone being unhappy with their experimental new idea?

Was it that they are developing for the four people who have liked every post that speaks positively about the set and criticized people who are unhappy? Because you shouldn't develop for four people. You being part of that group of four people doesn't make your opinion more valid. It doesn't make you superior. Stop acting like it, please. 

[ShardWarrior]

4 hours ago, Wravis said:

I disagree with your first statement. 

 

If you can point to a post where a GM or HC member specifically told you not to post your opinion, please do share it.  I have yet to see the exact words "do not post your opinion" by them.  The fact that your thread is still here with GM and HC replies is evidence that your assertion is incorrect.

 

4 hours ago, Wravis said:

However, the part I highlighted, I definitely agree with. And that's a consistent pattern and problem with the development and testing of this game. And that's part of what I mean when I say they do not listen. It's back to the analogy I made of being one the phone and going "uh huh, uh huh, mhmm" until the person stops talking and hangs up. Once the developers have made up their mind on something, they stop actively listening. Sure, they'll keep the discussion going, but not with any intention of actually considering any feedback.

 

You are absolutely most welcome to hold that view in my opinion.  It may surprise you that I completely agree with your sentiment.  With that said, I learned long ago that this group, for better or worse, will do what they want no matter what our feedback is.  Your thread here and the general feeling behind it is not anything new and is a viewpoint many have expressed over the years.  What I propose to you is that perhaps accept the fact that this is how HC works and they are not going to change their way of doing things.  You may save yourself a lot of future aggravation.  Taking that out on HC and others does not seem to be helping or having the result you are after. 

Edited 3 hours ago by ShardWarrior

[Steampunkette]

20 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Did you just AI-splain? It looks accurate but the formatting is sus. 6/7

No. I just actually write like that.

 

AI has to copy someone, after all!

[Steampunkette]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

Here's the problem with that last part though:  Nobody said they have to release a second page right now.

Someone did. Otherwise they wouldn't be releasing another Page right now.

 

It's almost like there's a hierarchy of responsibility within the company where the City Council and other people set out schedules and get editorial purview over what gets released and when.

 

BIZARRE, am I right?

[Wravis]

13 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

If you can point to a post where a GM or HC member specifically told you not to post your opinion, please do share it.  I have yet to see the exact words "do not post your opinion" by them.  The fact that your thread is still here with GM and HC replies is evidence that your assertion is incorrect

The thing about language is that you don't need to use the specific words to convey your point. Carpet bombing every post anyone who disagrees with you with thumbs down is one way to tell them "do not post your opinion". Repeatedly telling them "if you don't like it, don't use it" when that thing is being tested and is (at least in theory) meant to be in a phase where it can be changed to something else, is telling them "do not post your opinion". 

"I'm not saying to shut up. I'm just saying don't talk."

If it's not want you're intending to say, I can accept it. But it's how it comes across.

But why not voice my concerns about their willingness to consider feedback? If you agree with that sentiment, but feel too defeated to argue that they should change their methods, that's on you. Don't encourage other people to give up, too. We should want change when we're unhappy with things.

And yeah, I know my angry "this is ridiculous" first post was definitely not helpful or constructive, either. I realized shortly after posting that I should have cooled off before posting this. But it was too late to hide, and so I'm trying, belatedly, to be more constructive with what I say.

(Mr. Moogly,  I know this is kind of bickery, but please don't delete it. There's actual discussion about feedback mixed in.)

Edited 7 hours ago by Wravis
Added clarification to hopefully be less of a jerk

[Ghost]

9 minutes ago, Wravis said:

The thing about language is that you don't need to use the specific words to convey your point. Carpet bombing every post anyone who disagrees with you with thumbs down is one way to tell them "do not post your opinion". Repeatedly telling them "if you don't like it, don't use it" when that thing is being tested and is (at least in theory) meant to be in a phase where it can be changed to something else, is telling them "do not post your opinion". 

"I'm not saying to shut up. I'm just saying don't talk."

If it's not want you're intending to say, I can accept it. But it's how it comes across.

But why not voice my concerns about their willingness to consider feedback? If you agree with that sentiment, but feel too defeated to argue that they should change their methods, that's on you. Don't encourage other people to give up, too. We should want change when we're unhappy with things.

And yeah, I know my angry "this is ridiculous" first post was definitely not helpful or constructive, either. I realized shortly after posting that I should have cooled off before posting this. But it was too late to hide, and so I'm trying, belatedly, to be more constructive with what I say.

(Mr. Moogly,  I know this is kind of bickery, but please don't delete it. There's actual discussion about feedback mixed in.)

My “don’t like it, don’t play it” comment is because I don’t understand your mindset.

Why would you play something you don’t like, or are not happy with?  A set that doesn’t meet your expectations?

 

If you don’t like a particular restaurant, you don’t eat there again.  I doubt you stand out front and demand they make the changes you want….so why do it with a set you simply don’t have to play?

Seems like a much easier solution then getting upset and going on a rant - which most people know never ever accomplishes anything.

 

[Wravis]

Just now, Ghost said:

My “don’t like it, don’t play it” comment is because I don’t understand your mindset.

Why would you play something you don’t like, or are not happy with?  A set that doesn’t meet your expectations?

 

If you don’t like a particular restaurant, you don’t eat there again.  I doubt you stand out front and demand they make the changes you want….so why do it with a set you simply don’t have to play?

Seems like a much easier solution then getting upset and going on a rant - which most people know never ever accomplishes anything.

 

Except this restaurant isn't open yet, and invited people in to test dishes to see if people thought it should be on the menu. Then sent servers around to ask "how is everything", heard people's opinions about the temperature of the food and the ambiance of the building, and then, before the meal was over, announced "we already decided what was going to be on the menu. We need to open by the end of the month. There's no time to change the selection. Thanks for coming" before listening to the feedback on the actual flavor, texture, variety, or pricing.

Now I'm saying "hey wait, we have things to say about the food. Why did you waste our time bringing us out here if you weren't going to hear our opinions?"

People would be justifiably annoyed at having their time wasted. They would be justified in saying "in the future, you should take the time to consider the menu changes people are suggesting. And if you wouldn't have time to consider menu changes, you should have scheduled the market testing earlier, or at least be honest about the fact that the event was meant to drum up hype for the grand opening."

[Ghost]

7 minutes ago, Wravis said:

Except this restaurant isn't open yet, and invited people in to test dishes to see if people thought it should be on the menu. Then sent servers around to ask "how is everything", heard people's opinions about the temperature of the food and the ambiance of the building, and then, before the meal was over, announced "we already decided what was going to be on the menu. We need to open by the end of the month. There's no time to change the selection. Thanks for coming" before listening to the feedback on the actual flavor, texture, variety, or pricing.

Now I'm saying "hey wait, we have things to say about the food. Why did you waste our time bringing us out here if you weren't going to hear our opinions?"

People would be justifiably annoyed at having their time wasted. They would be justified in saying "in the future, you should take the time to consider the menu changes people are suggesting. And if you wouldn't have time to consider menu changes, you should have scheduled the market testing earlier, or at least be honest about the fact that the event was meant to drum up hype for the grand opening."

That’s understandable, but when they say “we are still opening.  Thanks for coming” - that’s it.  
I can understand the frustration from that, and at no time in all these discussions did I fault you or discount you for that frustration.

I’m simply trying to say - we know it’s coming out.  We know you don’t like it, so don’t play it.

You still want to suggest changes, cool.  Do it respectfully and you’ll find that people are more Inclined to agree with you. 
 

Otherwise it’s “Why are you even playing something you don’t like?”

[Steampunkette]

20 minutes ago, Wravis said:

Now I'm saying "hey wait, we have things to say about the food. Why did you waste our time bringing us out here if you weren't going to hear our opinions?"

Except they heard your opinions. And have stated that while there won't be more changes in the short term, there will be in the next update.

 

It's almost like they have a deadline to meet, and can't do what you're asking -before- the deadline, and intend to do something after the deadline has passed and before the next one comes up.

 

And instead of accepting that very reasonable "Rock and a Hard Place" situation, you're ranting and raving about how they don't listen. Even going so far as to move from the "We want your opinions here" section to the Suggestion forums to continue complaining.

[Wravis]

11 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Except they heard your opinions. And have stated that while there won't be more changes in the short term, there will be in the next update.

 

It's almost like they have a deadline to meet, and can't do what you're asking -before- the deadline, and intend to do something after the deadline has passed and before the next one comes up.

 

And instead of accepting that very reasonable "Rock and a Hard Place" situation, you're ranting and raving about how they don't listen. Even going so far as to move from the "We want your opinions here" section to the Suggestion forums to continue complaining.

I was told to move my discussion from Focused Feedback to general feedback, thanks.

And I am 'ranting and raving' that they should not start their testing when they know they have such a strict deadline. They can delay the release after providing the proper amount of time to test the set. And if they CAN'T, because they set their own arbitrary deadline, they should, at least, acknowledge that it was a bad decision and they will consider it for the future. Rather than pretending nothing was wrong and insulting testers for trying to provide feedback that they don't want to hear.

They created both the rock and the hard place. They have the power to remove the hard place. There were other things being tested that were not ready, that they are not putting through to the next patch. They are capable of delaying the release of content and features. They are choosing not to.

Edited 6 hours ago by Wravis
Added extra information for clarity

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Wravis said:

Repeatedly telling them "if you don't like it, don't use it" when that thing is being tested and is (at least in theory) meant to be in a phase where it can be changed to something else, is telling them "do not post your opinion". 

Wouldn't that only apply to the power set's feedback thread and not a thread complaining about the feedback thread?

[Steampunkette]

11 minutes ago, Wravis said:

I was told to move my discussion from Focused Feedback to general feedback, thanks.

And I am 'ranting and raving' that they should not start their testing when they know they have such a strict deadline. They can delay the release after providing the proper amount of time to test the set. And if they CAN'T, because they set their own arbitrary deadline, they should, at least, acknowledge that it was a bad decision and they will consider it for the future. Rather than pretending nothing was wrong and insulting testers for trying to provide feedback that they don't want to hear.

And hey, that feedback can be useful NEXT TIME.

 

But right now it's spitting in your palm. You can do it, and the spit had a purpose in your mouth. But now it's just there.

 

As far as acknowledging it or agreeing with it: They -really- shouldn't. Like if this were just an interpersonal dispute and they felt you were right and whatever, sure.

 

But once it hits a company level there are two very good reasons they shouldn't acknowledge or agree publicly off the top of my head:

 

1) It Might not be Their Decision to Make

Captain Powerhouse may not have been the one who decided that Sonic Melee should get such a brief test and have no control over it. Acknowledging or agreeing with you, publicly, results in a mark against the people who made that decision. Both causing friction between members of a very small team of volunteers (risking fracture) and opening themself up for response. Maybe it was a member of the City Council saying "This patch is too small without a powerset. Throw one in!" and Captain Powerhouse responded "Sonic Melee is the closest to ready for launch, but it needs more time" and the Council said "Do it, anyway, you can do some more changes later, just get it out the door!" and left Captain Powerhouse with no alternatives.

 

2) It Limits Their Options in the Future

While they might recognize you're right (assuming you are), internally, making a public statements means making a fixed position for Homecoming that they can't, later, go back on without being targeted with accusations of hypocrisy, lying, or otherwise going back on "Their Word". If they've got a set that really doesn't need extensive testing (say, an assault set made up of powers that already exist in the game that really only needs a short balance pass to make sure the values are accurate) they'd be forced to 'wait' until the start of the next patch cycle to get it briefly tested.

 

So... yeah. Give them some grace, acknowledge that there may be reasons or information you don't know, register your discontent and then move on rather than continuing to focus on the negativity. It's healthier in the long run for you and the community.

Edited 6 hours ago by Steampunkette

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

If you can point to a post where a GM or HC member specifically told you not to post your opinion, please do share it.  I have yet to see the exact words "do not post your opinion" by them.  The fact that your thread is still here with GM and HC replies is evidence that your assertion is incorrect.

 

 

You are absolutely most welcome to hold that view in my opinion.  It may surprise you that I completely agree with your sentiment.  With that said, I learned long ago that this group, for better or worse, will do what they want no matter what our feedback is.  Your thread here and the general feeling behind it is not anything new and is a viewpoiny many have expressed over the years.  What I propose to you is that perhaps accept the fact that this is how HC works and they are not going to change their way of doing things.  You may save yourself a lot of future aggravation.  Taking that out on HC and others does not seem to be helping or having the result you are after. 

 

There have been BIG changes over the years that I've disagreed with. Sometimes coming to arguments with others in CB (less so in OB). I've learned years ago that it's best to just post your feedback and just move on. HC will do things that we agree with and disagree with eventually. That is inevitable.

[golstat2003]

33 minutes ago, Wravis said:

I was told to move my discussion from Focused Feedback to general feedback, thanks.

And I am 'ranting and raving' that they should not start their testing when they know they have such a strict deadline. They can delay the release after providing the proper amount of time to test the set. And if they CAN'T, because they set their own arbitrary deadline, they should, at least, acknowledge that it was a bad decision and they will consider it for the future. Rather than pretending nothing was wrong and insulting testers for trying to provide feedback that they don't want to hear.

They created both the rock and the hard place. They have the power to remove the hard place. There were other things being tested that were not ready, that they are not putting through to the next patch. They are capable of delaying the release of content and features. They are choosing not to.

 

This is NOT a realistic view in terms of game development or software development.

 

I (and sure many others) do NOT agree that they delay the release just because one set is not perfect. Or even that all aspects of a set is not perfect.

 

So now they have two sets of opinions about whether they delay the release or not. Which do they choose?

 

EDIT: By the way I've read that feedback thread. There is nothing being posted in there that can't be fixed after a release. No game breaking bug, nothing that crashes the server, no missing powers on any AT that has the set. Nothing posted to me means the set can't be released. It being underpowered on some ATs DOES NOT in my opinion mean it needs to be delayed.

 

And again both your feed back and mine being equal, I ask again, which do they choose?

Edited 5 hours ago by golstat2003

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

33 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Even going so far as to move from the "We want your opinions here" section to the Suggestion forums to continue complaining.

 

25 minutes ago, Wravis said:

I was told to move my discussion from Focused Feedback to general feedback, thanks.

 

That's true.  I asked Wravis to open a new thread outside the Sonic Focused Feedback thread to keep that one. . . well . . .focused!

[Wravis]

3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

And hey, that feedback can be useful NEXT TIME.

 

But right now it's spitting in your palm. You can do it, and the spit had a purpose in your mouth. But now it's just there.

 

As far as acknowledging it or agreeing with it: They -really- shouldn't. Like if this were just an interpersonal dispute and they felt you were right and whatever, sure.

 

But once it hits a company level there are two very good reasons they shouldn't acknowledge or agree publicly off the top of my head:

 

1) It Might not be Their Decision to Make

Captain Powerhouse may not have been the one who decided that Sonic Melee should get such a brief test and have no control over it. Acknowledging or agreeing with you, publicly, results in a mark against the people who made that decision. Both causing friction between members of a very small team of volunteers (risking fracture) and opening themself up for response. Maybe it was a member of the City Council saying "This patch is too small without a powerset. Throw one in!" and Captain Powerhouse responded "Sonic Melee is the closest to ready for launch, but it needs more time" and the Council said "Do it, anyway, you can do some more changes later, just get it out the door!" and left Captain Powerhouse with no alternatives.

 

2) It Limits Their Options in the Future

While they might recognize you're right (assuming you are), internally, making a public statements means making a fixed position for Homecoming that they can't, later, go back on without being targeted with accusations of hypocrisy, lying, or otherwise going back on "Their Word". If they've got a set that really doesn't need extensive testing (say, an assault set made up of powers that already exist in the game that really only needs a short balance pass to make sure the values are accurate) they'd be forced to 'wait' until the start of the next patch cycle to get it briefly tested.

 

So... yeah. Give them some grace, acknowledge that there may be reasons or information you don't know, register your discontent and then move on rather than continuing to focus on the negativity. It's healthier in the long run for you and the community.

1) Do you think that is a good, productive way to create content for a game? Rush it out to hit arbitrary deadlines you've set for yourself, and fix it later? This is a game. The Homecoming team isn't a group of infallible higher beings who can't be seen as flawed or it'll risk societal collapse. Acknowledging mistakes isn't a weakness. Stubbornly refusing to admit mistakes is.

I don't think that is a good way to develop content. So I am voicing my opinion. And people keep telling me to shut up. Stop telling me to shut up.

2) I agree, they shouldn't make a fixed statement about the length required to test things. I'm not suggesting they should. But this was an entirely new set with new feature mechanics, that deserved more time.

I registered my discontent, and keep getting told to shut up. 

  

4 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

There have been BIG changes over the years that I've disagreed with. Sometimes coming to arguments with others in CB (less so in OB). I've learned years ago that it's best to just post your feedback and just move on. HC will do things that we agree with and disagree with eventually. That is inevitable.

At this point it's not even the Homecoming Team that's the problem. It's the group of people who keep high fiving each other and repeating each other telling me and people who are unhappy to be quiet. Stop telling people who have complaints to be quiet.

Why ask for feedback if the stance will be "if you don't like it, too bad"?  I don't think that's the Homecoming team's policy, but I do think that it's the route that tends to be taken because it's easier to accept the praise and ignore the criticism. And I think it's a pattern through a lot of testing. Hence why I pointed it out. Hence why multiple people have pointed it out. 

The initial post was not very constructive. I'm aware. I apologize. That doesn't make the opinion presented wrong. I'm not the only one who has that opinion.

[golstat2003]

8 minutes ago, Wravis said:

The initial post was not very constructive. I'm aware. I apologize. That doesn't make the opinion presented wrong. I'm not the only one who has that opinion.

 

At this point post your feedback and keep posting your feedback about the set. And then after thanksgiving when they get back to making further changes and releasing them to OB, test some more and give further feedback.

 

That's the best solution here. You're not being told to shut up.

 

What you're being told is that the set is not going to be delayed and further changes will be made after it's released.

[Wravis]

28 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

EDIT: By the way I've read that feedback thread. There is nothing being posted in there that can't be fixed after a release. No game breaking bug, nothing that crashes the server, no missing powers on any AT that has the set. Nothing posted to me means the set can't be released. It being underpowered on some ATs DOES NOT in my opinion mean it needs to be delayed.

Did you miss all of the people who don't like having a single target toggle in melee set that requires you to take the first two attacks in the set to make full use of it?

  

1 minute ago, golstat2003 said:

At this point post your feedback and keep posting your feedback about the set. And then after thanksgiving when they get back to making further changes and releasing them to OB, test some more and give further feedback.

 

That's the best solution here. You're not being told to shut up.

 

What you're being told is that the set is not going to be delayed and further changes will be made after it's released.

 Aside from Glacier Peak, Shard Warrior, Ghost, Championess, and now you and Steampunkette repeatedly telling not to give my opinion and just accept their decisions, yeah. No one is telling me to shut up.

Do you want me to make a new thread and remove "Sonic Melee Is Not Ready" from the title so you're not confused about the fact that this thread isn't specific to Sonic Melee? Maybe I should title it "Make Better Decisions and Reconsider How You Respond to Criticism So People Don't Feel Disinclined To Test New Features" because "Listen to Feedback" is easy to purposely misconstrue as claiming they don't see comments.