Question on Procs and Precedence

[tellania]

Sorry, not the sequel to 'Pride and Prejudice', but an actual question:

 

If you slot procs in a power, which ones go off first?  The ones on the left, or right?

Also, the power itself vs procs (eg power damage/mezz first, then procs, or procs then power damage/mez effects?)

Do proc vs global make a difference?  Eg. LOTG +7.5% recharge and Kismit +6% to hit?

 

Main reason, I have a power, I wish to put in a -res proc.    I also put in a damage proc.   Ideally, I would want the -res proc to go off first, and the damage proc after it.     I'm also curious on power that use 'sleep', so if Proc it, does the power go off (sleep), then the damage proc (which breaks sleep), or do the proc (damage) goes off first, then the power 'sleep'?

 

I figure power alone, is damage then mezz effects (eg. frozen aura, otherwise the damage would break sleep).

 

Hoping to optimize some IO precedence slotting, and removing those that may break some desired mezz functionality.

[Psyonico]

54 minutes ago, tellania said:

I have a power, I wish to put in a -res proc.    I also put in a damage proc.   Ideally, I would want the -res proc to go off first, and the damage proc after it

I don't think there's a way to force this to happen, but in a general sense, the power's first tick happens then the process fires.  So, powers pike Rain of Arrows will have the first hit tick, the -res will tick, then the remaining damage ticks will hit.

 

57 minutes ago, tellania said:

I'm also curious on power that use 'sleep', so if Proc it, does the power go off (sleep), then the damage proc (which breaks sleep), or do the proc (damage) goes off first, then the power 'sleep'?

There are no damage procs in sleep sets, so you can follow the basic rule for sleep powers that do damage.  The way these powers are coded, the sleep has a coded delay in it (I think 1/2 second), so it doesn't happen until after the power does its damage.  So the power would damage, the process would fire, then the sleep would take effect.

[Championess]

As I understand it procs fire from their slotting right to left.  Yes you're right to want to place the -res procs so they fire off first.  As a common practice I always slot a -res proc at the end to the very right slot.

[tellania]

Psyonico,  Ice melee (frozen aura) has damage and sleep in it.   It does the damage first, then the mezz (sleep) effect.

 

Also, when I mention proc, I mean IO procs.    So, if I use a power which has -def, and I slot -res (achilles heel) and damage (touch of lady grey, neg dam proc) IO's, which will trigger first.   slots: <achilles heel> < lady grey damage proc> , which will happen first.

 

EDIT: Re-read Psyonio's reply, misunderstood.  Delay sleep postt proc.  Thank you Psyonico, I appreciate the information.

Edited Monday at 10:35 PM by tellania

[tellania]

Thank you Championess, I thought I read it somewhere, but unable to find the reference (right to left).

 

I believe powers trigger first, then IO procs, so if I want to keep the sleep in frozen aura, I should only slot damage/accuracy/endurance/recharge IO's and sleep set (eg the heal), if I wanted to keep them asleep (along with HO's for mezz, of course).     

[RCU7115]

You could read the damage inflicted log in the chat windows. Create a new tab with just damage inflicted selected and pick on some poor lonely minion and read the log. It'll tell you what triggered first.

[Championess]

I do love me Frozen Aura.  Though I don't slot any procs into it or mezz beyond the special ATOs for scrappers that up your crit rate on the next attack.  With all of those targets that ATO is bound to fire so I know to expect to follow up with a crit Freezing Touch on my main target.

 

The proc formulas kind of dictate where I do and dont slot things.  Single Target attacks I'll look to find ideal attacks for like 4 procs based on the powers current recharge (without enhancing recharge) and animation.  An attack with that combination equal to 12+ seconds I'll slot procs.  For aoes its a much larger equation to factor along with that recharge.  You're also accounting for the area of that power plus the max target count.  Typically I dont like slotting procs in a faster recharging aoe attack like Frozen Aura, I'd rather slot a set.  The aoe -res proc will maybe fire on 1-2 random targets of the bunch, that is too low of a rate for me I'd rather use that slot elsewhere.

[Chance Jackson]

Wow! Talk about things that I don't know, that I don't know! I don't think I ever thought to interrogate whether slot placement mattered in this way other than aesthetics. I have to re-evaluate all my toons for optimal slot ordering now lol.

[Snarky]

On 12/15/2025 at 2:27 PM, Championess said:

As I understand it procs fire from their slotting right to left.  Yes you're right to want to place the -res procs so they fire off first.  As a common practice I always slot a -res proc at the end to the very right slot.

Not trying to be contrary (i do not need to try) but in my mind i thought these fired left to right. Dom memory i have not tested or have much use for. I proc little

[Hedgefund]

I wanted to see the answer to this myself, I can't say I've seen anyone provide any evidence of what the answer is, one way or the other.  So I took a DP corruptor on Brainstorm that has Executioner's Shot slotted with Achille's Heel in the 4th slot, before other procs (Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage and Impeded Swiftness: Chance for Smashing Damage).  Like this:

 

 

 

I went to a Vanguard IDC, just outside the base.  These are level 52, I'm level 50+1.

 

Here's a shot where all 3 procs went off:

 05:28] HIT Vanguard IDC! Your Executioner's Shot power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 90.25.
[05:28] You hit Vanguard IDC with your Executioner's Shot for 143.1 points of Fire damage.
[05:28] You hit Vanguard IDC with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 51.65 points of Negative Energy damage.
[05:28] You hit Vanguard IDC with your Impeded Swiftness: Chance for Smashing Damage for 51.65 points of Smashing damage.
[05:28] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily

So the procs hit for 51.65 with AH in the 4th slot.  The line that says "You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily" is from Achille's Heel.

 

I moved AH to the 6th slot,  ToLG now in the 4th.  Not going to bother with a screenie.

 

Here's a shot where all 3 procs fired with the new slotting, AH in the 6th slot.

 

 05:41] You hit Vanguard IDC with your Executioner's Shot for 143.1 points of Fire damage.
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You hit Vanguard IDC with your Impeded Swiftness: Chance for Smashing Damage for 51.65 points of Smashing damage.
[05:41] You hit Vanguard IDC with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 51.65 points of Negative Energy damage.

 

I don't know why there are so many rows for AH, I will point out the same thing happened in the first set of results I simply didn't include them in what I pasted because I viewed it to be extraneous data.

 

So, the proc damage didn't change whether Achille's Heel was in the 4th slot, before 2 other damage procs, or in the 6th slot, after 2 damage procs.  It looks to me like placement of Achille's Heel has no effect on other procs within the power.  I do infer based on the listing of the effects that it does go right to left.  It just doesn't seem to matter.

 

Edit - I tried one more time, this time with no Achille's Heel, proc damage was always 51.65

 

I did not bother with Fury of the Gladiator's proc.

 

To pre-empt a "but what about..." (I can only think of this one so far) - I logged out, logged back in and got the same numbers.

 

Edited Thursday at 12:43 AM by Hedgefund

[Championess]

But since if you're going to be slotting a -res proc anyways why not just slot it so it reads first?  I'm sure any teammates attacking your same target would appreciate that -resistance reading as early as it can.

[Psyonico]

@Hedgefund that makes sense if you think about it.  The proc's damage is calculated at the power activation because that's when the proc's chance to hit is calculated.  Since every power calculates before it actually hits, it doesn't matter which order the procs are slotted in the power.

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

So, the proc damage didn't change whether Achille's Heel was in the 4th slot, before 2 other damage procs, or in the 6th slot, after 2 damage procs.  It looks to me like placement of Achille's Heel has no effect on other procs within the power.  I do infer based on the listing of the effects that it does go right to left.  It just doesn't seem to matter.

 

thank you for testing.  so they fire right to left.  okay.

 

now, ... i am prob being dumb.  but the -res will not affect the damage a proc does, but the damage the enemy takes.  or is that value what is listed?

 

like, do we just see the final damage taken by an enemy?  or what our power hits for before all the damage res and bs cuts it to shreds...?

 

after beating the crap out of minions in Atlas with and without tar patch it seems we just see the final value after all maths.

 

the -res proc might fire first but evidently all the maths for that attack are done b4 the procs damages and effects are applied.

Edited Thursday at 02:16 AM by Snarky

[Major_Decoy]

3 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily
[05:41] You reduce your targets damage resistance temporarily

 

Smashing

Lethal

Fire

Cold

Energy

Negative Energy

Toxic

Psionic

[Hedgefund]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

thank you for testing.  so they fire right to left.  okay.

 

now, ... i am prob being dumb.  but the -res will not affect the damage a proc does, but the damage the enemy takes.  or is that value what is listed?

 

like, do we just see the final damage taken by an enemy?  or what our power hits for before all the damage res and bs cuts it to shreds...?

 

after beating the crap out of minions in Atlas with and without tar patch it seems we just see the final value after all maths.

 

the -res proc might fire first but evidently all the maths for that attack are done b4 the procs damages and effects are applied.

In the combat log, the number shown for damage done by a proc is the damage the enemy has taken.  These two procs I mentioned both do 71.75 base damage.  The Vanguard IDC has damage resists of 20% and a purple patch modifier of .9, so hopefully 71.75 * (1-.2) * .9 = 51.65.  Oh no, it's actually 51.66.  Close enough for me.

 

So, what you see for damage inflicted is after all the modifiers.  Hopefully that answers your q, Snarky.

[macskull]

On 12/17/2025 at 3:10 PM, Championess said:

But since if you're going to be slotting a -res proc anyways why not just slot it so it reads first?  I'm sure any teammates attacking your same target would appreciate that -resistance reading as early as it can.

It does not matter. They're all being applied in the same server tick.