page 3 [OPEN BETA] Patch Notes for December 19th, 2025

[skoryy]

4 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Because they have been taken far and above their intended use. If Controllers were meant to pump out that kind of damage they would have been given it.

 

And if man were meant to fly, God would have given us wings. So, I guess you walk everywhere then?

 

What ATs were designed for back when George W. Bush and Usher were popular are a long long ways from where the game is now. Trying to pull the game back to there is a fool's errand, you've got to meet the players were they're at now.  And right now they want to blow stuff up ASAP.

[Captain Fabulous]

1 hour ago, skoryy said:

 

And if man were meant to fly, God would have given us wings. So, I guess you walk everywhere then?

 

What ATs were designed for back when George W. Bush and Usher were popular are a long long ways from where the game is now. Trying to pull the game back to there is a fool's errand, you've got to meet the players were they're at now.  And right now they want to blow stuff up ASAP.

Controllers have gotten numerous damage buffs on Homecoming. But proc abuse veers into exploit territory. Devs have said so numerous times and have vowed to reel them in. I for one can't wait to see the epic forum and discord meltdowns when that happens. It will be GLORIOUS.

[Auroxis]

If your argument is "Controllers and Defenders do too much damage" and you want to use it to invalidate build choices players have been making for over a decade and invested time into, when in fact those two AT's have never been part of meta 4-star compositions and aren't meta farmers either, then all I can give you is a big fat no.

 

If your argument is "Stuff dies too fast and I don't get to do much", then there are lots of ways to address that issue that don't involve invalidating build choices. One of them was just added in level 55 mobs, and we can have more content in the game that instead of "clear pack and travel to the next" consists of a higher density of packs to fight at once ala ITF.

 

If your argument is "Procs are too strong and there's no diversity in slotting", how about instead of nerfs that would make players feel bad about their choices and time investment, we instead elevate other options. Proc boosting ala Cupid's Crush has been a welcome mechanic to the game that I've been hoping would get incorporated into damage proc sets as well at some point.

[Riverdusk]

2 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Controllers have gotten numerous damage buffs on Homecoming. But proc abuse veers into exploit territory. Devs have said so numerous times and have vowed to reel them in. I for one can't wait to see the epic forum and discord meltdowns when that happens. It will be GLORIOUS.

 

Funny, I tend to want everyone to have fun more than I care to enjoy seeing people meltdown and be upset.  To each their own I guess.

[Captain Fabulous]

13 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Funny, I tend to want everyone to have fun more than I care to enjoy seeing people meltdown and be upset.  To each their own I guess.

Let me know when you develop the same level of scorn for the handful of people who ensured we will never have crashless T9s or a crashless version of Rage.

 

16 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

If your argument is "Controllers and Defenders do too much damage" and you want to use it to invalidate build choices players have been making for over a decade and invested time into, when in fact those two AT's have never been part of meta 4-star compositions and aren't meta farmers either, then all I can give you is a big fat no.

 

If your argument is "Stuff dies too fast and I don't get to do much", then there are lots of ways to address that issue that don't involve invalidating build choices. One of them was just added in level 55 mobs, and we can have more content in the game that instead of "clear pack and travel to the next" consists of a higher density of packs to fight at once ala ITF.

 

If your argument is "Procs are too strong and there's no diversity in slotting", how about instead of nerfs that would make players feel bad about their choices and time investment, we instead elevate other options. Proc boosting ala Cupid's Crush has been a welcome mechanic to the game that I've been hoping would get incorporated into damage proc sets as well at some point.

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I made no such arguments.

[Riverdusk]

18 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Let me know when you develop the same level of scorn for the handful of people who ensured we will never have crashless T9s or a crashless version of Rage.

 

 

 

I was upset when they pulled the tier 9 changes and posted as such. 

 

On rage, I don't have a single super strength character because I never wanted to fiddle with it.  I'm all for that change as well.

 

Also all for it as many have suggested the super strength changes are a harbinger of it being ported to scrappers, and I'd be excited to see that.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I think defenders, controllers and tanks do too much damage. Their damage is secondary. It should be treated as such. Hell, controllers don't have a damage powerset. They should never reach the damage output of ANY other AT. The highest DPS controller should be putting out less damage than the lowest mastermind. But, obviously, the game don't work that way.

[Moghedien]

25 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I think defenders, controllers and tanks do too much damage. Their damage is secondary. It should be treated as such. Hell, controllers don't have a damage powerset. They should never reach the damage output of ANY other AT. The highest DPS controller should be putting out less damage than the lowest mastermind. But, obviously, the game don't work that way.

 Since the games CORE design is 90% about damg output, there is no reason to not buff controller damg since their primary "aka Controls" is completely and untterlly unnecessary in the current game design if you play on teams and endgame. Most of the time the groups are dead before you can even use some aoe cc

[Shin Magmus]

[Moghedien]

On 12/23/2025 at 6:26 PM, Captain Citadel said:

IMO the reason they're "broken" is that stacking them on a single power is the best way to increase damage now, and for most of the game's life they did not exist, because we didn't have IO sets. Before IO sets, we slotted enhancements for their passive effects to make the power better. You put some combination of damage, accuracy, recharge, and endurance reduction on all your attack powers. Now, we use Incarnates and set bonuses on other powers to get global accuracy/recharge/endurance reduction, and just stack procs on all our attacks for raw damage. The attack power itself becomes largely irrelevant, we're stacking external damage onto it and getting all our DPS that way.

It just doesn't feel good. This isn't how the game was broadly designed for most of its existence. I would rather get my character's power from their powers, not throw a punch with Super Strength and watch the target go down from a combination of every element in the game except Smashing damage. At that point it's like my character has no powers, they're getting everything from items, if that makes sense.

 And since the game has changed so much and crashless nukes were introduced and everything is just about damg now, all ATS should get a way to deal some meaningfull damg.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 minutes ago, Moghedien said:

 Since the games CORE design is 90% about damg output, there is no reason to not buff controller damg since their primary "aka Controls" is completely and untterlly unnecessary in the current game design if you play on teams and endgame. Most of the time the groups are dead before you can even use some aoe cc

 

The core design was what was writ back in 2004 when the game was released. The design NOW is damage is king and everything else is trappings, costume design, cosmetics.

 

We failed a long time ago.

 

That being said, you're right. We're all damage dealers now. Perhaps every AT should get mez protection because of that.

Edited 6 hours ago by Bill Z Bubba

[Captain Fabulous]

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

The core design was what was writ back in 2004 when the game was release. The design NOW is damage is king and everything else is trappings, costume design, cosmetics.

 

We failed a long time ago.

 

That being said, you're right. We're all damage dealers now. Perhaps every AT should get mez protection because of that.

I think most of the people who are heavily invested in the game forget the vast majority of the playerbase does not play this way and are unconcerned with their DPS. They just play to have fun. And their style of gameplay is equally as valid as others.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I think most of the people who are heavily invested in the game forget the vast majority of the playerbase does not play this way and are unconcerned with their DPS. They just play to have fun. And their style of gameplay is equally as valid as others.

 

It's only equally as valid if the devs decide it so. I've seen little evidence to believe that to be true.

[skoryy]

5 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

But proc abuse veers into exploit territory. Devs have said so numerous times and have vowed to reel them in.

 

In the old words: Citation needed.

 

5 hours ago, Captain Fabulous said:

for one can't wait to see the epic forum and discord meltdowns when that happens. It will be GLORIOUS.

You know what we call people who enjoy watching others suffer because they don't play the way you personally approve of?  [Deleted.]

 

Be more excellent, dude.

 

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I think defenders, controllers and tanks do too much damage. Their damage is secondary. It should be treated as such. Hell, controllers don't have a damage powerset. They should never reach the damage output of ANY other AT. The highest DPS controller should be putting out less damage than the lowest mastermind. But, obviously, the game don't work that way.

I mean, they don't? Probably?  But defenders and controllers need something to do on map clears.

 

3 hours ago, Moghedien said:

And since the game has changed so much and crashless nukes were introduced and everything is just about damg now

Before crashless nukes it was judgements, and before that it was brute AoEs and before that tankers with endless aggro caps and before ED it was City of Blasters...

The astronaut meme applies. It always has been.

Edited 3 hours ago by skoryy

[Riverdusk]

Think we've strayed off topic by this point as this doesn't have much to do with these patch notes anymore.  However,  I'll go back to one of my old suggestions when it comes to controllers.  Take the single target immobilize attack most sets get as a starting choice and make it into a legitimate damage power.   Instead of the pitiful low damage super slow 9 second dot that most sets have.  A power most people skip as even power pool attacks are better, by a lot (looking at you arcane bolt).  Right there, easy improvement and would hardly be game breaking.

 

Some simple changes like that and yeah, I'd be fine with nerfing procs some.  

 

As to the idea that controllers should have terrible damage.  Maybe if they were some kind of "super teaming AT" sure, but I don't particularly see teams crying out for controllers.  Most teams will take anything of course, but usually they are at best tolerated.  Sometimes they aren't even that because they are either considered dead weight, or because some "mess up the tank/brute" by using their aoe immobilize wrong/too early.  Almost as reviled as aoe knockback.  

 

Controllers having bad damage is honestly not justified in the current game.

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, Auroxis said:

If your argument is "Controllers and Defenders do too much damage" and you want to use it to invalidate build choices players have been making for over a decade and invested time into, when in fact those two AT's have never been part of meta 4-star compositions and aren't meta farmers either, then all I can give you is a big fat no.

 

If your argument is "Stuff dies too fast and I don't get to do much", then there are lots of ways to address that issue that don't involve invalidating build choices. One of them was just added in level 55 mobs, and we can have more content in the game that instead of "clear pack and travel to the next" consists of a higher density of packs to fight at once ala ITF.

 

If your argument is "Procs are too strong and there's no diversity in slotting", how about instead of nerfs that would make players feel bad about their choices and time investment, we instead elevate other options. Proc boosting ala Cupid's Crush has been a welcome mechanic to the game that I've been hoping would get incorporated into damage proc sets as well at some point.

 

I don't know on that.  People who are against proc changes are always saying "eliminates build choice" are talking about a system that basically drives a lot of people to it for more damage, and then taking away build choice because they can't, for instance, take the Agility Alpha.

 

As for Diversity in slotting, I'd argue for most things, outside of people just slotting what they want, people that actually focus on builds, will all have close to the same build as it is.  So no build diversity.  Even before IOs, back when Enhancement Diversity came about, people built the same way.  HOWEVER, from what I've seen of MMOs, this is just standard MMO "You pick such and such class, you go this way" hardly ever have I seen anything that truly had players going really diverse.

 

That said, I also like how Cupid's Crush works.  Wonder if they can make it such a good thing for purple sets, where the real question will be 6 slot the sets for all the bonuses or take it to 5 and slot a second Proc.

 

If they just up the damage/chances of the Proc through this method to equal out to what we get now, it can be done without a lose in damage that people fear, while also stopping the every proc in the book, they want to try and avoid (and there was nothing wrong with this line of thinking imo).