Ice / Ice Blaster question about Ice Storm and Proc

[IneptAdept]

I have Positron's Blast Chance of Damage (Energy) slotted in Ice Storm.  After an ITF, I do not remember ever seeing any number about 2 for damage at any time from Ice Storm.  Does it not proc in Ice Storm, did I blink at the wrong time a lot, or ?   Thanks.  

 

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Freezing Fiend 2: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Ice Blast
Secondary Power Set: Ice Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Cold Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Dcm-Build%(15)
Level 1: Chilblain -- TmpRdn-Acc/EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Ice Blast -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 4: Ice Sword -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(13), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 6: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), WntGif-ResSlow(25), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(48), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(50)
Level 8: Freeze Ray -- Lck-Acc/Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Rchg(9), Lck-Rchg/Hold(11), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(17), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(17), Lck-%Hold(31)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 12: Ice Storm -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(36), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(39), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(40), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), PstBls-Dam%(43)
Level 14: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Frigid Protection -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 18: Bitter Ice Blast -- SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(23)
Level 20: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Aim -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(42), GssSynFr--Build%(46)
Level 26: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-Psi/Status(27), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(29), Ags-ResDam(34), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 28: Build Up -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(29), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(40), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(42)
Level 30: Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Blizzard -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(33), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(33), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Rgn-Knock%(34)
Level 35: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(36), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(39), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Frost Breath -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(39), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(42), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(48), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 41: Snow Storm -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Hibernate -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A)
Level 49: Hoarfrost -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(37)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(21), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(21), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(46)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
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[Vanden]

Procs will go off in Ice Storm. What you're probably seeing is the fact that Ice Storm puts up so many (tiny) damage numbers that the game can't display them all, so when the procs go off you won't notice it unless you're watching the enemy health bars or the combat log closely. That said, I have the Superior Frozen Blast proc in my Blaster's Ice Storm, and I don't see mobs getting immobilized all that much, so procs don't seem to have a good activation rate in Ice Storm to begin with.

 

As for your build: Freeze Ray is the highest DPA attack in the set now (besides Blizzard), so it's kind of a waste to slot it for Holds. Ice Sword is not that great, being only a little stronger than your second-weakest attack, so you might consider dropping it for Freezing Touch and slotting that for Hold instead.

 

Why do you have that Decimation: Acc/End/Rech in Ice Blast? You've got oodles of accuracy from set bonuses, so it makes more sense to put the Thunderstrike: Dam/End/Rech in there and get the six-slot bonus from Thunderstrike.

 

Your slotting for Stamina and Frigid Protection is kind of silly. Four-slotting Performance Shifter like that gives you 2.5% extra recovery, which is less than you'd get putting a -3 training enhancement in Frigid Protection. None of those set bonuses are really any good, so you should just move two slots to Frigid Protection, and put 2 50+5 End Mod IOs and a Performance Shifter proc in FP, and one 50+5 End Mod IO and a Performance Shifter proc in Stamina. That'll give you the most possible Recovery with that number of slots, and you're gonna need that if you're gonna be running Tough, Weave, Hover, and occasionally Snow Storm in a fight.

 

Lastly, for Build Up and Aim, your slotting could be improved depending on how you use them. If you tend to alternate them, that slotting's good. However, if you prefer to use them both at once for maximum burst, you should swap the slottings. When you use both, you necessarily burn some of the buff time of one while casting the other, so you should always Aim first and then Build Up, so you're not wasting any of its larger damage boost using Aim. That goes double if you're using the Gaussian's proc, since it only lasts 5 seconds.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Vanden

[natewest1987]

4 hours ago, Vanden said:

Procs will go off in Ice Storm. What you're probably seeing is the fact that Ice Storm puts up so many (tiny) damage numbers that the game can't display them all, so when the procs go off you won't notice it unless you're watching the enemy health bars or the combat log closely. That said, I have the Superior Frozen Blast proc in my Blaster's Ice Storm, and I don't see mobs getting immobilized all that much, so procs don't seem to have a good activation rate in Ice Storm to begin with.

 

As for you build: Freeze Ray is the highest DPA attack in the set now (besides Blizzard), so it's kind of a waste to slot it for Holds. Ice Sword is not that great, being only a little stronger than your second-weakest attack, so you might consider dropping it for Freezing Touch and slotting that for Hold instead.

 

Why do you have that Decimation: Acc/End/Rech in Ice Blast? You've got oodles of accuracy from set bonuses, so it makes more sense to put the Thunderstrike: Dam/End/Rech in there and get the six-slot bonus from Thunderstrike.

 

Your slotting for Stamina and Frigid Protection is kind of silly. Four-slotting Performance Shifter like that gives you 2.5% extra recovery, which is way less than you'd get even putting another SO in Frigid Protection. None of those set bonuses are really any good, so you should just move two slots to Frigid Protection, and put 2 50+5 End Mod IOs and a Performance Shifter proc in FP, and one 50+5 End Mod IO and a Performance Shifter proc in Stamina. That'll give you the most possible Recovery with that number of slots, and you're gonna need that if you're gonna be running Tough, Weave, Hover, and occasionally Snow Storm in a fight.

 

Lastly, for Build Up and Aim, your slotting could be improved depending on how you use them. If you tend to alternate them, that slotting's good. However, if you prefer to use them both at once for maximum burst, you should swap the slottings. When you use both, you necessarily burn some of the buff time of one while casting the other, so you should always Aim first and then Build Up, so you're not wasting any of its larger damage boost using Aim. That goes double if you're using the Gaussian's proc, since it only lasts 5 seconds.

Impressive

[IneptAdept]

Thank you for your feedback, I still have much to learn about optimizing slotting, I will put your suggestions to good use 🙂

[Sir Myshkin]

On 8/3/2019 at 8:03 AM, Vanden said:

Procs will go off in Ice Storm.

It's pretty much easier to say Procs wont go off in Rain effects. I can't say they definitively "cannot," but as the game current stands, they are effectively dysfunctional and the probability of seeing a proc go off in a Rain effect is basically 0%. Done the testing on it with a few others, with a lot of time watching combat logs, recording the events, going over the damage ticks, watching Pylon's with Power Analyzers. Procs don't go off in Rain Effects. Rain of Fire, Sleet, Freezing Rain, Ice Storm, Blizzard, scratch them all off your proc list. Damage Procs, -Res Procs, Mez Effects, KD, none of them.

[Vanden]

4 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

It's pretty much easier to say Procs wont go off in Rain effects. I can't say they definitively "cannot," but as the game current stands, they are effectively dysfunctional and the probability of seeing a proc go off in a Rain effect is basically 0%. Done the testing on it with a few others, with a lot of time watching combat logs, recording the events, going over the damage ticks, watching Pylon's with Power Analyzers. Procs don't go off in Rain Effects. Rain of Fire, Sleet, Freezing Rain, Ice Storm, Blizzard, scratch them all off your proc list. Damage Procs, -Res Procs, Mez Effects, KD, none of them.

You could say that, but it would be wrong. Procs will go off in rains, even if the odds are bad.

[HelenCarnate]

5 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

It's pretty much easier to say Procs wont go off in Rain effects. I can't say they definitively "cannot," but as the game current stands, they are effectively dysfunctional and the probability of seeing a proc go off in a Rain effect is basically 0%. Done the testing on it with a few others, with a lot of time watching combat logs, recording the events, going over the damage ticks, watching Pylon's with Power Analyzers. Procs don't go off in Rain Effects. Rain of Fire, Sleet, Freezing Rain, Ice Storm, Blizzard, scratch them all off your proc list. Damage Procs, -Res Procs, Mez Effects, KD, none of them.

In my Rain of Fire I have 6 slotted Superior Frozen Blast including a chance to immobilize.  It only seems to go off on the initial strike but I will normally see 2 or 3 mobs with chunks of ice around them out of a full spawn at x8.  So while it may not be an effective use of the proc (I have mine more for the set bonus) they do go off.

[Necessity Bear]

I slotted a chance for immob and a chance for -dmg res in Ice Storm and after testing it against large groups @-1 lvl and below, ive only ever seen either proc trigger once on a single target. It's like you only get the chance to proc on the first hit, or maybe a missed dmg tick in Ice Storms attack cycle creates a cancel on miss that kills any chance for further procage?

I dunno what gives, but id say based on the above that procs in Ice Storm appear to be a waste of time.

[Vanden]

IIRC in a power like Ice Storm a proc will only have a chance to proc things once every 10 seconds after the initial cast.

[Sir Myshkin]

14 hours ago, Vanden said:

You could say that, but it would be wrong. Procs will go off in rains, even if the odds are bad.

I did say it, and it isn't wrong. It has been tested. It has been proven. Telling someone that they're safe to slot procs into the rain effects is just bad form. I am not the only one who has sat down and dropped Sleet, and Freezing Rain, and Ice Storm, and Blizzard, after Blizzard, after Blizzard watching for a proc, waiting to see the tick occur, and getting no tangible results back that was of any value whatsoever.

 

It's not just bad odds, they're broken. We know what the probability formula is, it shouldn't be floored below minimum. If you want to see the testing feedback, head over to the Defenders forum and pick a thread. There's three talking about different builds, one of which accumulates most of that testing into one.

[HelenCarnate]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:38 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

I did say it, and it isn't wrong. It has been tested. It has been proven. Telling someone that they're safe to slot procs into the rain effects is just bad form. I am not the only one who has sat down and dropped Sleet, and Freezing Rain, and Ice Storm, and Blizzard, after Blizzard, after Blizzard watching for a proc, waiting to see the tick occur, and getting no tangible results back that was of any value whatsoever.

 

It's not just bad odds, they're broken. We know what the probability formula is, it shouldn't be floored below minimum. If you want to see the testing feedback, head over to the Defenders forum and pick a thread. There's three talking about different builds, one of which accumulates most of that testing into one.

Nope, you are still wrong.  Cast rain of fire on 4 mobs.  3 of them were hit with the immobilize proc. 

 

Edit...

Got home, went on the test server.  Slotted blizzard with 4 damage procs.  Cast it on a small group of clockwork in Boomtown.  Blizzard only has cold and lethal.  The procs are Fire, Energy, Negative and Smashing.  Here is the combat log excluding lethal and cold damage

 

Blizzard: You blast Prototype Oscillator for 394.62 points of bonus energy damage!  

Blizzard: You blast Prototype Oscillator for 394.62 points of bonus negative energy damage! 

Blizzard: You hit Tesla Knight for 535.44 points of bonus Fire damage! 

 Blizzard: You blast Tesla Knight for 358.74 points of bonus negative energy damage!

 

They died to fast to get a great reading so moved on to Creys and decided to test it on something a bit harder to kill and give the power the full number of ticks.

 

 Blizzard: You blast Warhulk for 157.84 points of bonus energy damage!
Blizzard: You hit Warhulk for 235.59 points of bonus Fire damage!

tons of cold lethal ticks then...

 Blizzard: You hit Warhulk for 235.59 points of bonus Fire damage!

Blizzard: Your target takes 181.52 points of bonus smashing damage!

 

Tried it on something else

In the middle...

 Blizzard: You blast Chief Soldier for 157.84 points of bonus negative energy damage!

 

Test results were the same for Ice Storm (although you can only fit 3 damage procs instead of 4).  Do they proc often in rain powers?  No.  Is it worth slotting with mostly procs?  No.  If you have a proc due to wanting to get the set bonus will it still go off from time to time?  Yes and in some rare cases more than once per cast.  In rare cases as well I got 0 procs.

Edited August 8, 2019 by HelenCarnate