Gaussian for MMs

[Unknown Magi]

Greetings fellow MMs.  I was doing some testing today on Gaussian's +Buildup procs and stumbled across this gem during my tests which I figured I'd cross-post:

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So, confirmed at this point, Tactics has a 6.5% per 10 seconds to proc Gaussian, but this is checked for each person receiving your buff.  

 

And now, because who can resist a good cheese plate, I present the following:

 

1. Thugs - Enforcers have Tactics.  They can slot Gaussian, and the procs apply to each Enforcer (each has their own proc check individually, both *can* proc at once.  At one point, a double proc was observed, although this may be just been a graphical glitch as I could not reproduce it.

2. Mastermind Pets only check Enhancements at summon time.  If you had a ton of influence and nothing better to do with it, you could carry some Enhancement Unslotters, summon your Enforcers, then steal their Gaussian and put it in your Tactics.  This results in you and both enforcers each getting procs at the full rate.  Tested and confirmed.  Note that this would be a minor headache to burn two unslotters shuffling your Gaussian every time you summon them, so YMMV.

3. Thugs - Gang War.  These guys receive Tactics buffs from both you and Enforcers, which means summoning a gang war *skyrockets* your proc rate by adding a whole team's worth of extra targets to your aura (and/or your enforcers' aura).  Observed proc rate for solo Thugs MM with all pets and 1 active gang war was 4-5 PPM for self, and ~3PPM per enforcer (10 self procs and 13 total enforcer procs in 13 activations).  

 

While observation 2 is a hassle to play with, Observations 1 and 3 are...insane.  The enforcers are only Tier 2 pets, but have multiple AoE attacks with which to take advantage of buildups.  Total effect would require extensive DPS testing outside the scope of this test, and is left as an exercise for the MM forums.

 

Clarification of steps for Point 2, in case someone really wants to play with it:

Step 1. Put Gaussian in Enforcers

Step 2. Summon and upgrade Enforcers

Step 3. Unslot Gaussian from Enforcers, place in Tactics

Step 4. Turn on Tactics

Step 5. Profit

Edited August 4, 2019 by Unknown Magi

[Maxzero]

40 minutes ago, Unknown Magi said:

Greetings fellow MMs.  I was doing some testing today on Gaussian's +Buildup procs and stumbled across this gem during my tests which I figured I'd cross-post:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, confirmed at this point, Tactics has a 6.5% per 10 seconds to proc Gaussian, but this is checked for each person receiving your buff.  

 

And now, because who can resist a good cheese plate, I present the following:

 

1. Thugs - Enforcers have Tactics.  They can slot Gaussian, and the procs apply to each Enforcer (each has their own proc check individually, both *can* proc at once.  At one point, a double proc was observed, although this may be just been a graphical glitch as I could not reproduce it.

2. Mastermind Pets only check Enhancements at summon time.  If you had a ton of influence and nothing better to do with it, you could carry some Enhancement Unslotters, summon your Enforcers, then steal their Gaussian and put it in your Tactics.  This results in you and both enforcers each getting procs at the full rate.  Tested and confirmed.  Note that this would be a minor headache to burn two unslotters shuffling your Gaussian every time you summon them, so YMMV.

3. Thugs - Gang War.  These guys receive Tactics buffs from both you and Enforcers, which means summoning a gang war *skyrockets* your proc rate by adding a whole team's worth of extra targets to your aura (and/or your enforcers' aura).  Observed proc rate for solo Thugs MM with all pets and 1 active gang war was 4-5 PPM for self, and ~3PPM per enforcer (10 self procs and 13 total enforcer procs in 13 activations).  

 

While observation 2 is a hassle to play with, Observations 1 and 3 are...insane.  The enforcers are only Tier 2 pets, but have multiple AoE attacks with which to take advantage of buildups.  Total effect would require extensive DPS testing outside the scope of this test, and is left as an exercise for the MM forums.

 

Clarification of steps for Point 2, in case someone really wants to play with it:

Step 1. Put Gaussian in Enforcers

Step 2. Summon and upgrade Enforcers

Step 3. Unslot Gaussian from Enforcers, place in Tactics

Step 4. Turn on Tactics

Step 5. Profit

 

Controllers would also seem some benefits if they are using either Fire or Electric Control with 3 Gremlin pets. Not as big as MM but still an increase for a AT know for its weaker damage.

[StrikerFox]

If Gaussian is slotted, Enforcers summoned, and Gaussian then unslotted, wouldn't that mean any IO slotted after wouldn't take effect unless Enforcers die/dismissed and resummoned. So on my build, Enforcers would lose Achilles', Lady Grey or Shield Breaker proc.

 

Also it's not a glitch, the double BU looks nice. Not sure how that can happen since BU duration is 5 seconds and procs in auto powers checks every 10 seconds.

 

[Warlawk]

13 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

Also it's not a glitch, the double BU looks nice. Not sure how that can happen since BU duration is 5 seconds and procs in auto powers checks every 10 seconds.

I believe both enforcers have the chance to proc it individually and when it procs, it affects both. That's purely based on what other people have said as I haven't done much with procs myself.

[Dr Causality]

2 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

If Gaussian is slotted, Enforcers summoned, and Gaussian then unslotted, wouldn't that mean any IO slotted after wouldn't take effect unless Enforcers die/dismissed and resummoned. So on my build, Enforcers would lose Achilles', Lady Grey or Shield Breaker proc. 

 

Yeah you'd have to find a way to fit in a slot for the Gaussian's proc.  The only benefit you get from pulling it, is being able to then slot into your MM effectively letting both the Enforcers and your MM have the benefit of what's supposed to a unique IO.     But even when temporarily moving it you would lose the use the slot it occupies in the Enforcers...

[Dr Causality]

Does anyone know if teams with more than one Thugs MM still get stacking bonuses from all the Enforcers Leadership abilities (applying to each other)?       This is how it used to work long ago, but definitely seems like a bug that may have been fixed by now.     If not the chances to proc Gaussians would be off the charts on multiple Thugs teams...

[StrikerFox]

If someone is willing to burn Unslotters, why use Gaussians? Leave it slotted on the MM and do it to Soulbound Allegiance across all pets. I just noticed Soulbound provides +100% damage to the T3 pet, +80% to T2 pets and +60% to T1's. It double procs to +200% on the Commando.

 

https://youtu.be/IQeJmR-W3_U

Edited August 5, 2019 by StrikerFox

[Unknown Magi]

The difference is in what triggers the procs.  Gaussian triggers based off of +tohit powers, so it's checked as part of the pseudo-toggle on the Enforcers which is on continuously.  Soulbound, on the other hand, is checked on attacks afaik so it's at the mercy of the pet's attack chain to determine proc chance per power used, what powers they feel like using today, etc.

 

If you decided not to stack your enforcers for defense, and thus had slots open, you could theoretically slot both to provide both "kinds" of buildups to them, potentially creating an interesting pair of cone damage monsters?

 

 

[kelly Rocket]

Double build up should not be possible, due to the way that procs work. They can never stack, even if they're from multiple sources, because procs cause the target to cast the effect on themselves, which means it always counts it as being from the same source.

 

If the Gaussian's proc is actually doing that, it means someone messed up and didn't add the "Effect does not stack from same caster" flag to their effect. Which I suppose they might have thought didn't matter anyway as it's generally impossible for it to stack when it only rolls chance once every 10 seconds, and only lasts for 5.

 

But obviously for the Enforcers you have two of them and a ton of targets to trigger off, so they could conceivably both proc it and then... yeah.

 

Which I suppose makes it an interesting exploit of sorts. Though frankly, given that it's on an MM with all the drawbacks of such (At least at high level/endgame) I'd argue it's not gamebreaking and should probably be left as-is 😉

Edited August 6, 2019 by kelly Rocket

[SmalltalkJava]

I am trying to understand this.   Without doing the unslotting technique, that would be a pain in the ass for me.

 

For looking at proc rate and the overall benefit of where to slot it. I'm still trying to determine if i want it in the pets or on myself.  I know it will greatly depend on the build and /secondary, but i'm trying to wrap my head around this concept.

 

If Gaussians is slotted on the Enforcers then it actually works like there are two "casters" of Tactics, Enforcer 1 and Enforcer 2.  So Two casts of it affecting 6 targets, just not the MM

If Gaussians is slotted on the MM then it actually works like there is 1 caster of Tactics, but it at a minimum affects 7 targets (MM and 6 pets) + any teammates + their pets/henchmen.

 

--  Afterthoughts,   So....   Just brainstorming for MasterMind Mondays.       8 Masterminds each with 6 pets.  Probably would have a good proc rate at that point for sure.

 

-- Additional afterthoughts.    Beasts primary. Wolves can be slotted with Gaussians.  Granted its not an Aura, but a click power they do every minute.   Both the Alpha and regular Wolves have this on Tame Beasts....

•  - Grants power Howl to Howler Wolf
  • Activation Time: 3.67s
  • Recharge Time: 1m 0s
  • Power Type: Click
  • Target Type:Self
  • Effect Area: AoE -- 15.00 ft. radius (255 targets max)
• +24.75%% strength to all damage for 15.00s on target
  • Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
• +7.50%% to hit for 15.00s

**Jeesus.  That activation time is horrible.  Over 3.6 seconds activation on a 15 second buff.  I guess that is their version of build up.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by SmalltalkJava

[kelly Rocket]

Don't forget that using Gang War makes the Gaussian's proc more often, because Enforcer Tactics applies to the Gang War mobs.

[Machination]

On 8/4/2019 at 11:34 PM, StrikerFox said:

If someone is willing to burn Unslotters, why use Gaussians? Leave it slotted on the MM and do it to Soulbound Allegiance across all pets. I just noticed Soulbound provides +100% damage to the T3 pet, +80% to T2 pets and +60% to T1's. It double procs to +200% on the Commando.

 

https://youtu.be/IQeJmR-W3_U

So what turned out to be better soul or gaus on pets?

[Justisaur]

Apparently it's got a 6.5% chance to proc with every target but each is considered like a separate die roll, so you could have it roll under that 6.5% on two targets (or more, though you're getting into the 1 in thousands) getting one proc from each.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Justisaur

[StrikerFox]

On 8/22/2019 at 2:51 AM, Machination said:

So what turned out to be better soul or gaus on pets?

I would say Soulbound is better. Did a 2 minute test with Gaussian equipped in Enforcers, with Gang War cast. Enforcer 1 got 8 BU procs; Enforcer 2 got 12 BU procs. Enforcer 2 had double BU, 3 times in that time frame.  

 

Did the same with Soulbound, 2 minute test vs a pylon. Enforcer 1 got 15 BU procs; Enforcer 2 got 16 BU procs. They may have gotten a bit more but was KB a couple times.

 

The good thing about Gaussian is double procs occur at the same time, so all attacks that fall within the BU duration will have stacked BU damage. While Soulbound may proc for one attack, then an attack following may stack another BU, but it will never have a double BU for a full 5.5 second duration.

 

The good thing about Soulbound is it will proc when we want it to, while the pets are attacking. Not while running from target to target, not while being KB/mezzed. Soulbound is also more versatile and can be slotted into any pet, while Gaussian is only viable on Enforcers (SmalltalkJava gave great detail about T1 Beasts and Gaus sounds like it will be horrible on them). Soulbound also doesn't rely on Gang War to significantly boost it's proc chance. The average Thug build probably has Gang War at a 50% uptime/downtime.

[Maxzero]

11 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

I would say Soulbound is better. Did a 2 minute test with Gaussian equipped in Enforcers, with Gang War cast. Enforcer 1 got 8 BU procs; Enforcer 2 got 12 BU procs. Enforcer 2 had double BU, 3 times in that time frame.  

 

Did the same with Soulbound, 2 minute test vs a pylon. Enforcer 1 got 15 BU procs; Enforcer 2 got 16 BU procs. They may have gotten a bit more but was KB a couple times.

 

The good thing about Gaussian is double procs occur at the same time, so all attacks that fall within the BU duration will have stacked BU damage. While Soulbound may proc for one attack, then an attack following may stack another BU, but it will never have a double BU for a full 5.5 second duration.

 

The good thing about Soulbound is it will proc when we want it to, while the pets are attacking. Not while running from target to target, not while being KB/mezzed. Soulbound is also more versatile and can be slotted into any pet, while Gaussian is only viable on Enforcers (SmalltalkJava gave great detail about T1 Beasts and Gaus sounds like it will be horrible on them). Soulbound also doesn't rely on Gang War to significantly boost it's proc chance. The average Thug build probably has Gang War at a 50% uptime/downtime.

 

The question then is since Enforcers are so slot tight are the buildup procs better then a regular damage procs?

Edited August 24, 2019 by Maxzero

[StrikerFox]

28 minutes ago, Maxzero said:

 

The question then is since Enforcers are so slot tight are the buildup procs better then a regular damage procs?

I wanted to test that but SNBR seems to have stopped working for me after one of the updates. I might try to look into it again if/when a fix is made.

[Maxzero]

36 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

I wanted to test that but SNBR seems to have stopped working for me after one of the updates. I might try to look into it again if/when a fix is made.

 

My gut feel is the damage procs are probably better. The damage boost is 80%. Assuming 100% damage slotting that BU proc is going to increase your damage 40% overall (200%->280%).

 

Looking at the MM Pylon thread the general result is that each damage proc does 25% of a Enforcer's damage. Make sense since -def damage procs work in almost every single Enforcer attacks (except Blast Clip) and with the moderate cooldowns a rotation would have a pretty good proc rate.

 

Now if you had a 3rd slot for damage procs it would be fine. But Enforcers rarely have that many slots free.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Maxzero

[Redlynne]

The unverified for Homecoming doc contains the following info on Soulbound Alliegance:

 

Pet

Soulbound Allegiance

Buildup

15% +tohit, 100% +dam, 10 sec (on pet)

3 PPM

 

If the buff lasts for 10s worth of attacks by the 1 Pet that procs the buff ... I think you're going to have to alter your assumptions on the value of the buff relative to a damage proc.

 

In other words ... the Build Up proc out of Decimation and Gaussian's may work quite differently from the Build Up proc in Soulbound Allegiance.

[Maxzero]

31 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

The unverified for Homecoming doc contains the following info on Soulbound Alliegance:

 

Pet

Soulbound Allegiance

Buildup

15% +tohit, 100% +dam, 10 sec (on pet)

3 PPM

 

If the buff lasts for 10s worth of attacks by the 1 Pet that procs the buff ... I think you're going to have to alter your assumptions on the value of the buff relative to a damage proc.

 

In other words ... the Build Up proc out of Decimation and Gaussian's may work quite differently from the Build Up proc in Soulbound Allegiance.

 

The Soulbound proc works a fair bit better. The Gaussian's has half the duration (5.5s) and only 80% damage boost.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Maxzero