Regen scrapper - bother with Fighting pool?

Heraclea · August 7, 2019

My fire/regen scrapper is nearing 50 without a plan or a real desire to get there. Once she hit 35 and could run all of the Freedom Phalanx TFs, she was 'done'. I had no real desire to turn her into an armored scrapper. No desire to trick her out with set bonuses: she makes merits that my other characters use, and slots their castoffs for their general effects rather than for bonuses.

This week she's been farming the bejesus out of Synapse, because that's the sort of thing she's made for. And there's a metric shedload of XP there. So she's rounding the corner to 50 now without a plan.

I usually consider Fighting pool a given for my melees, even though I dislike taking a useless and redundant attack to get into it. For this character, it seems to me that Tough and Weave would be lipstick on a pig. She's starting from a ground so low that the little bit of resistance and defense from them would not justify their endurance costs, and low endurance costs is one of the character's few advantages. I also have a heavy duty TW/WP scrapper who took and uses Tough and Weave, because they do her much more good.

Convince me one way or another that I ought to use Fighting pool for her final power selections.

Johnny Velocity · August 8, 2019

I run tough, weave, maneuvers, and assault. I have 25-30% defenses and 65% s/l resists, and that much mitigation helps. Now, you probably have to take and slot more fire attacks than I do with claws, but still...what else would you take? Medicine is a waste. Stealth is pointless with an aura. Sorcery could be cool for theme, maybe. But scrappers are meant for melee, so fighting pool seems to fit.

Heraclea · August 8, 2019

Regen doesn't have an aura, so I do have Stealth and Recall Friend. I probably can drop Invisibility since I have the Celebrity Stealth IO for Sprint. The character concept is committed to Fly.

Again, I knew what I was in for when I made a Regen. This is not an endgame scrapper; my TW/WP heavy scrapper is for that. This character was made specifically for farming lower level TFs, Numina and below, for merits. She doesn't have any significant set bonuses; she buys them for my other characters. If she takes Tough and Weave now she won't have them for her chief purpose anyways. This is why I question their value specifically for her.

Johnny Velocity · August 8, 2019

Duh. I was thinking Fiery aura, not fire melee. I had a long day yesterday. I guess it doesn't matter at all what the late powers are if low and mid level TFs are the sole purpose. Go nuts with travel pools!

Nightmarer · August 8, 2019

Fighting Pool adds a layer of passive mitigation and since Fiery Melee has no active mitigation whatsoever, it could help however, if you are not going to invest in sets, then you will have to rely solely on your +regen and heals since I don't think the little s/l res and def fighting pool bring on their own is going to be noticeable at all without sets. Probably Presence Pool might add better dmg mitigation for an all IO build.

Bloodofcaine · August 8, 2019

No need to convince you really. On their own, tough and weave won't help you much unless you also invest into IO sets to supplement the defense and resists you get from them. Since you've stated you have no desire to go that route, then taking these powers is fairly pointless. I mean if the character is working fine for what you made it for, no need to add anything superfluous.

Heraclea · August 8, 2019

If I do put sets into her, I will look for recharge, +HP, and healing for her. She also has Air Superiority for a bit of active control. Rather bored with building for defense, and again, as a regen, she starts from so low a base that the defense path would be very expensive.

Heraclea · August 8, 2019

FWIW I made a wish list build for the character. I focused on regeneration first, then hit points, healing, recharge, and damage resistance last. Focusing on the set IOs my defense slotting characters don't really want ---

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Maiden Heaven: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Weapon Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword

(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(13) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(25) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(36) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 1: Fast Healing

(A) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
(45) Preventive Medicine - Heal
(45) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

Level 2: Reconstruction

(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(9) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(45) Doctored Wounds - Recharge

Level 4: Quick Recovery

(A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod
(5) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Recharge
(5) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Accuracy
(50) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod/Endurance

Level 6: Cremate

(A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
(7) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance
(7) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge
(25) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(36) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(37) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 8: Fly

(A) Flight Speed IO

Level 10: Breath of Fire

(A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage
(11) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime
(11) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(40) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(42) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(42) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 12: Build Up

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(13) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
(43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
(46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 14: Dull Pain

(A) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
(15) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
(15) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
(43) Preventive Medicine - Heal
(46) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance

Level 16: Integration

(A) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
(17) Miracle - Heal/Recharge
(17) Miracle - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(43) Miracle - Heal

Level 18: Fire Sword Circle

(A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
(19) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
(19) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
(21) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
(21) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(31) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 20: Stealth

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 22: Air Superiority

(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(23) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(23) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(40) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(40) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(42) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 24: Recall Friend

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 26: Incinerate

(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(27) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(27) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(34) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(37) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(37) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 28: Instant Healing

(A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
(29) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
(29) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
(39) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
(46) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

Level 30: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(31) Recharge Reduction IO
(31) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 32: Greater Fire Sword

(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(33) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(33) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(33) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(34) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(34) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 35: Caltrops

(A) Pacing of the Turtle - Chance of -Recharge
(36) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Slow
(48) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Endurance
(50) Pacing of the Turtle - Endurance/Recharge/Slow

Level 38: Moment of Glory

(A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
(39) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
(39) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance

Level 41: Web Grenade

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 44: Resilience

(A) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance

Level 47: Exploding Shuriken

(A) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage
(48) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(48) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(50) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 49: Revive

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 1: Critical Hit

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

Ideon · August 8, 2019

Well, if you're not going to be doing endgame content but using the character for low level stuff, then you might try investing in purples and pvp parts since they carry their set bonuses all the way to level 1 even if the power isn't available. Since a lot of purple sets have 10% recharge along with 15% accuracy, this can help with your heals going off faster and more accuracy to deal with ruin mages from circles who are super annoying at low level positron runs. You could also look into ATO sets for more set bonuses which can carry down to level 7 if I remember.

Again, if you go this route, it will also be expensive, but if you're planning on gearing out your regen scrapper for low level content, then it's something to consider. 😄

Scrapulous · August 8, 2019

I think, given the constraints supplied (no building for defense), that your remaining options are:

Build for regen: this is the option you have taken with the build you just posted. I always have a hard time with this approach since sets like WP and Bio do it better. I sometimes make decisions out of bitterness and am glad smarter people don't.
Build for global recharge: basically the idea is to maximize the value of your click powers on lower level content.
Build for resistance: potentially violates the "don't want to build an armored scrapper" sentiment you expressed early in the thread, and has lower EHP returns than building for defense, so I think it's a weak option.

Given those potential approaches, I think fighting pool only makes sense if it mules sets you want or if you decide to go for option 3 and want Tough and maybe Weave as an SL res mule to help. I'm very interested in how 1 vs. 2 would play out, but the only regen project I've managed to even plan adequately is a DM/regen at the SL softcap, and even that was a pretty depressing exercise for me, so take me with a grain of salt 😉

Scrap

Uun · August 8, 2019

Back on live I had a Claws/Regen scrapper with both Tough and Weave. This was back in the days when there were only four Scrapper secondaries. While it's not a huge amount of resistance and defense, it takes some of the sting off big alpha strikes that can overwhelm your healing. Between the two, I think you get more value out of Tough. If you expect to exemplar down for task forces, you can always respec to take it earlier in your build.

Heraclea · August 9, 2019

10 hours ago, Ideon said:

Well, if you're not going to be doing endgame content but using the character for low level stuff, then you might try investing in purples and pvp parts since they carry their set bonuses all the way to level 1 even if the power isn't available. Since a lot of purple sets have 10% recharge along with 15% accuracy, this can help with your heals going off faster and more accuracy to deal with ruin mages from circles who are super annoying at low level positron runs. You could also look into ATO sets for more set bonuses which can carry down to level 7 if I remember.

This is a good idea, should I choose to spend that kind of money on the character. Her whole purpose is to work Synapse, Ouro Sister Psyche, Old Positron, and Citadel, mostly, for the merits. Most of those go to buy stuff wanted for other characters. This may also be an occasion to use some of the Catalysts that are collecting in the base. They don't improve the bonuses of ordinary set IOs but they make them available level wide.

10 hours ago, Scrapulous said:

I think, given the constraints supplied (no building for defense), that your remaining options are:

Build for regen: this is the option you have taken with the build you just posted. I always have a hard time with this approach since sets like WP and Bio do it better. I sometimes make decisions out of bitterness and am glad smarter people don't.

Build for global recharge: basically the idea is to maximize the value of your click powers on lower level content.

...

Given those potential approaches, I think fighting pool only makes sense if it mules sets you want or if you decide to go for option 3 and want Tough and maybe Weave as an SL res mule to help. I'm very interested in how 1 vs. 2 would play out, but the only regen project I've managed to even plan adequately is a DM/regen at the SL softcap, and even that was a pretty depressing exercise for me, so take me with a grain of salt.

I must say that I do enjoy the character given her limitations. I've been running Synapses all week on her. She is a delight to play on Synapse. The endurance drain does not faze her because she is Regen. She is mostly indifferent to the type or position of incoming damage. Being fire/, she has all her AoEs by level 20.

By contrast, my heavy duty scrapper (TW/WP), who is currently working through Dark Astoria arcs (because she can) is total agony to play on Synapse. Her attack chain is shite at level 20. Her set bonuses do not help her. As a scrapper she couldn't take Heightened Senses before 28 even if she wanted to. Not helping here. She is building conventionally towards defense sets. Again, no help on Synapse.

I utterly understand that nerfs leave bad memories. I never had a Regen scrapper during their glory days, and rolled my i23 version of this character relatively late. It was more of an experiment to see what Fire Melee was like on a scrapper. To my surprise, the character found a niche and made herself useful as a merit farmer, even if she is subprime at endgame content. Fun, even, when you play knowing her limitations. So I remade her here.

Johnny Velocity · August 9, 2019

Everything you say is perfectly reasonable, I just can't fathom playing melee without combat jumping - I reposition constantly to maximize my melee cones. I am beginning to think you my be a sociopath... (I kid, I kid.)

MunkiLord · August 9, 2019

You don't have to maximize defense for it to have an impact. With Weave and the two 3% defense IOs, you'll only need about 9%-ish(I think, don't have Pines in front of me) from set bonuses to reach 20% and that will be helpful.

Werner · August 10, 2019

5 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

You don't have to maximize defense for it to have an impact. With Weave and the two 3% defense IOs, you'll only need about 9%-ish(I think, don't have Pines in front of me) from set bonuses to reach 20% and that will be helpful.

I agree. And even if you have no other resists or defenses, slotted out Tough and Weave give you a... erm... Besserwisser said 70% of blue side damage was smashing/lethal... 1000 output damage of average percentage by type without any resists or defense, 500 gets through... add 6% Weave and only 440 gets through your defense, of that 308 is smashing/lethal, 18% of which is blocked by Tough, so 55 points, so 385 points actually hit you. 385 points of damage vs. 500 points of damage is a 500/385-1 = 30%. You can handle 30% more enemy damage output.

So in the worst case scenario, if slotted up, the Fighting pool gives you about a 30% average increase in survivability.

Worth what you have to give up to get there? Maybe. Maybe not. But it's significant.

Murcielago · August 10, 2019

Quick update to my PvE Fire/Regen scrapper WiFry from Live. Close to 40% melee def, decent s/l res. Low on recharge which for regen is kind of scary but makes up for it with more def.

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

WiFry: Level 50 Science Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(3), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(3), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), TchofDth-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Mrc-Heal(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(7)
Level 2: Cremate -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(9), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(9), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), TchofDth-Dam%(13)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(13), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(15), PrfShf-End%(15)
Level 6: Reconstruction -- DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(17), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), DctWnd-Heal(19), DctWnd-Rchg(19)
Level 8: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Rchg+(23)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(23), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(25), DctWnd-Heal(25), DctWnd-Rchg(27)
Level 12: Boxing -- AbsAmz-Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(27), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(29), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(29), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(31)
Level 14: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(31)
Level 16: Integration -- RgnTss-Regen+(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(31), NmnCnv-Heal(33)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(33), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Obl-%Dam(34)
Level 20: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), LucoftheG-Def(36), LucoftheG-Rchg+(36)
Level 22: Resilience -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(43)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Rchg+(37), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 26: Incinerate -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(37), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(39), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), TchofDth-Dam%(40)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(40), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), DctWnd-Heal(42), DctWnd-Rchg(42)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(43), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(43), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), TchofDth-Dam%(45)
Level 35: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(46), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(46), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Build%(48)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), LucoftheG-Rchg+(50)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I(A)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
------------

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Regen scrapper - bother with Fighting pool?

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