Focused Feedback: Snipes and Dominator changes

[lobster]

Quote

Powers

Earth Assault:

• Mud Pots: Increased radius to 15ft. Lowered endurance cost slightly.

• Hurl Boulder: hit timing improved.

Electricity Assault:

• Thunder Strike: Cast time lowered to 2.5 seconds. Now knocks enemies down.

Energy Assault:

• Total Focus: sound has been synced to match the new faster animation.

Icy Assault:

• Chilling Embrace: increased radius to 15ft. Added -10% damage str to affected enemies.

Martial Assault:

• Shuriken Throw: Was doing less damage than intended. This has now been fixed.

• Thunder Kick: Recharge increased to 7 seconds. Damage increased to 86.4.

• Spinning Kick: Recharge increased to 10 seconds. Damage increased to 78.4.

• Envenomed Blades procs now ignores damage buffs and enhancements.

Savage Assault:

• Savage Assault changes (except text changes and feral charge range) have all been rolled back.

Thorny Assault:

• Skewer: Recharge lowered from 8 to 6 seconds. Damage lowered to 77.1 lethal damage.

• Impale: Recharge lowered from 12 to 10 seconds. Damage lowered to 103.5 lethal damage.

• Ripper: Recharge increased from 13  to 15 seconds, arc lowered to 60 degrees. Damage increased to 136.5 lethal damage.

• Thorn Barrage: Recharge increased from 14 to 18 seconds. Damage increased to 42.8 lethal damage per tick.

 

* Earth : YESS to the mud pots range boost.   My ice/earth will love this.
* Elec : Looks like a solid buff to thunderstrike.   I need to do some damage testing with Voltaic Sentinel and see if it makes the set worth it.

* Icy : Double YESS the set now has a much more "signature" signature power.  This and the previous changes I think make ice solid contender.  Looking forward to rolling up a new ??/ice after the changes go live.

* MA : Reasonable nerf to EB, it just felt way too strong.  It's still keeping the duration and tohit though, which is going to keep the set a really strong performer.  The melee changes are also solid.  The DPA lovers are going to love this even more, and the rest of us won't complain either ;).

* So what was the issue with the Savage changes?  They seemed solid to me (and I've got a dark/savage @ 38 I'm working on 😉 :).  Then again, the set is pretty close to solid on live, so leaving it as is isn't terrible.

* Thorny : Not sure what's going on with Skewer here.  I'd be more OK with its conversion to a fast attack if we had the option to choose either T1 or T2 secondary at creation.  In the interim, I'll likely still keep skipping it.  So, Impale now has the same damage as on live but a 2 second longer recharge?  Seems like an error?  The ripper changes I'm really going to have to play with a bit to inform my opinion.  Thorn Barrage seems solid, it's now a very heavy hitter - the heaviest T9 range, I think.  This seem fitting for the long cast time (which I am fine with! I don't think every attack should be super fast).

Overall looks pretty solid and I look forward to taking some things for spins.

EDIT: I Fired up a plant/elec on Justin and put in some time on /elec.  The combination of the snipe changes and the animation speed boost [It feels nice and smooth too!] to thunderstrike make the set FEEL way better, just smoother to play.  Whether or not a secondary has a snipe is now super relevant, the damage there (with tactics for +TOHIT boost) was really, really significant.  I wonder if the "insta" animation time shouldn't be made a tiny bit longer?  I need to go look at the numbers on them...

REQUEST: Could we get the sentinel showing up in the pet window please (even the dominator fiery orb proc is in there!) so we can tell when we need to recast without looking around and trying to find it on a potentially crowded battlefield?

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by lobster

[Vadavim]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:05 AM, Tubalcain said:

Could Electric Assault's Build Up be swapped to Power Boost as well? As it stands now, sets with secondary effect modifiers from powers like Power Boost make them better for sapping with Electric Control than having Electric Assault as a secondary and that's always seemed a bit silly to me.

I second this. Ideally Power Boost, or I guess Power Up if they're sticking to that trend... But either way, I was always extremely disappointed in the electricity assault secondary, and this was one of the reasons.

[Thezanman]

19 hours ago, lobster said:

So, Impale now has the same damage as on live but a 2 second longer recharge? 

No, the LETHAL damage was increased from 86.64 to 103.5. It still does extra damage from the toxic DoT. On live the impact lethal damage + the average damage from the toxic DoT sum to about 103.3, now the total is about 119.86.

[csr]

19 hours ago, lobster said:

* Thorny : Not sure what's going on with Skewer here.  I'd be more OK with its conversion to a fast attack if we had the option to choose either T1 or T2 secondary at creation.  In the interim, I'll likely still keep skipping it.

REQUEST: Could we get the sentinel showing up in the pet window please (even the dominator fiery orb proc is in there!) so we can tell when we need to recast without looking around and trying to find it on a potentially crowded battlefield?

 

I'll second that on Voltaic Sentinel.

 

As for Skewer, it has a base DPA of 92.5 DPS.  Throw in the Toxic DoT and that goes up to around 108.  It also does -20% Def on top of that.  When the Recharge was at 8 seconds Skewer was simply too good for a T2.  Now, IMO, it's still the best T2 in Dom secondaries, edging Smite.  The only T2 outlier left is Stone Mallet (and that set has lots of buffs in this patch already), all the rest are now fairly comparable.

 

Overall, the difference in powers in Thorns in this patch now makes it hard to choose what to skip.  Thorny Darts is easily the worst power, but you can't skip it.  Thorntrops and Thorn Burst are probably the next two weakest.  Though I suspect Skewer will be skipped by many, despite it being quite good.

[lobster]

5 hours ago, Thezanman said:

No, the LETHAL damage was increased from 86.64 to 103.5. It still does extra damage from the toxic DoT. On live the impact lethal damage + the average damage from the toxic DoT sum to about 103.3, now the total is about 119.86. 

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.
 

Quote

 

As for Skewer, it has a base DPA of 92.5 DPS.  Throw in the Toxic DoT and that goes up to around 108.  It also does -20% Def on top of that.  When the Recharge was at 8 seconds Skewer was simply too good for a T2.  Now, IMO, it's still the best T2 in Dom secondaries, edging Smite.  The only T2 outlier left is Stone Mallet (and that set has lots of buffs in this patch already), all the rest are now fairly comparable.

 

Overall, the difference in powers in Thorns in this patch now makes it hard to choose what to skip.  Thorny Darts is easily the worst power, but you can't skip it.  Thorntrops and Thorn Burst are probably the next two weakest.  Though I suspect Skewer will be skipped by many, despite it being quite good.

 

I agree, if it's that solid it will be a pretty tough choice, as we really don't need all those attacks, but they are  all good options.  I'll just play it out and see how it feels.  One of the other servers implemented being able to choose either of your first two secondaries, I'm hoping we get that eventually.  Having dead powers is annoying. 

I have a fire/thorn I'm working on and was planning on skipping either Skewer or Impale, pre-patch changes.  Now I'm just not sure.  Typically I consider skipping the cone, but the dimensions of Fling Thorns just make it so usable...Ripper and Thorn Burst are both clunky on live, but good enough that I generally take them anyway, and now Ripper is getting even better.  Thorns is looking really competitive when this goes live.

 

[Thezanman]

14 hours ago, lobster said:

One of the other servers implemented being able to choose either of your first two secondaries, I'm hoping we get that eventually.  Having dead powers is annoying. 

Agreed, that would be really nice.

[Williwaw]

If that's the server I'm thinking of, then they implemented a lot of weird things which I don't think are going to happen here (most notably, making the Control set pets into a level 1 power).

[Thezanman]

2 minutes ago, Williwaw said:

If that's the server I'm thinking of, then they implemented a lot of weird things which I don't think are going to happen here (most notably, making the Control set pets into a level 1 power).

Even if the other changes they made were bad, that's no reason not to implement good ideas.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Personally I applaud other servers for going different paths, I am excited to see different servers take completely independent approaches to similar problems or decisions, as well as some just remaining frozen in time.

 

That being said, I would not pursue that here, personally, for the same reasons the live team didn't do so when they thought to do it: stalkers could very easily self-gimp themselves by skipping Hide and there is some internal validation voodoo that sometimes messes with builds if you don't have your secondary's T1 in the build.

 

 

With that in mind, there are things we have been considering to make these powers a bit more useful.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[Tater Todd]

19 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Personally I applaud other servers for going different paths, I am excited to see different servers take completely independent approaches to similar problems or decisions, as well as some just remaining frozen in time.

 

That being said, I would not pursue that here, personally, for the same reasons the live team didn't do so when they thought to do it: stalkers could very easily self-gimp themselves by skipping Hide and there is some internal validation voodoo that sometimes messes with builds if you don't have your secondary's T1 in the build.

 

 

With that in mind, there are things we have been considering to make these powers a bit more useful.

I love the different approaches to the game too.  Heck I'm just happy to play again. 

That's excellent to hear about making T1s more useful.  The Homecoming team have definitely proved what you said is true by making amazing changes to the Tier 1s for Devices and Earthy Assault to name a few.  That's excellent news especially for folks like me who often skip over my Tier 1 Primary or Secondary powers.

[Myrmidon]

On 8/15/2019 at 1:09 AM, Tater Todd said:

 

Now on to my Favorite Dominator Secondary Earth Assault.  Now I must tell you my favorite /Earth combo is Electric/Earth but after trying out Earth/Earth for testing purposes....I'm in love.  It's like playing a ranged Brute!  I will definitely make one once these changes hit Live.

Testing Earth/Earth:

• Power Boost: Excellent change.  It added the usual utility but with the +dmg it should make this power work well with other Primaries
   

• Stone Spears: FINALLY, the version of this on live is HORRIBLE the user is left standing there not being able to do anything after using this attack.  It doesn't flow with combat the dmg was horrible and we are forced to take it.  Thank you for the change.  Everything was syncing up for me when it came to the audio of the power, impact and effect :D.
   

• Tremor: Like what I said about Total Focus.  This power just feels amazing now and the audio of the power, impact and effects all matched up with the new animation.  I was one of the few idjits that took this power on live and now I won't look so much like an idiot  >_>.
   

• Heavy Mallet: Matched up perfectly but it felt more like it's own individual power instead of it always feeling like a second chain of Stone Mallet.  This will make it more desirable for high recharge builds.
   

• Hurl Boulder: Woah!  This power isn't absolute garbage anymore!  It truly feels as hard hitting as it always sounds for once lol.  You guys are kinda sneaky.  I can tell you are testing stuff out on Doms to see how it is received before you port it over to other classes :P.  I don't blame you.  Powers like Total Focus, Hurl Boulder and Energy Transfer needed love for quite some time.  When it comes to bugs this power has a few.  The animation of your removing a chunk of Earth is somewhat smooth and you can tell it's faster than the live version but sometimes it slows which seems to throw off the final "heave-ho" of the rock.  Sometimes it seems like your hands are soapy and the rock slips out towards your foe at break neck speed.  Other times the "removing a chunk" of earth animation will slow a bit depending on their location, previous power animation or range (This power must be a combination of two separate animations?) causing the impact to fire on your foe before the boulder even halfway makes it to them.  I also noticed the boulder veering off in another direction only to find it's way home in your foe's squishy chest.  The same thing is happening with Animate Stone's animation of Hurl but at least he no longer gets stuck in a trance after using Hurl Boulder.  In closing even with the weird animation issues of this power on Beta I would still take this power w/o hesitation because it's soo much better now.  Makes me look forward to testing out Thorny Assault!

 

Again, I can't wait to try this build out on Live.  Thank you again for your work on Dominators 😎

This post right here just caused a spot in my playlist to open up for an Earth/Earth Dom.

[Machariel]

Will starting a slow snipe and deliberately cancelling it put you into Combat mode?

 

i like to use my snipe power to rapidly build up Domination by repeatedly activating and interrupting the power and it would be nice to keep that functionality.  Other than that, I’m 100% on board with these changes! 

 

(What, no buffs for Fiery Assault? :P)

[Captain Powerhouse]

You don’t want me to touch fiery assault.

[Rathulfr]

4 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

You don’t want me to touch fiery assault.

Is that a threat?  LOL. 😆

[Captain Powerhouse]

Not intended as one, but every metric I have shows the set overperforming for single target by way more than it should (it is expected it does more damage due to it's global secondary effect being more damage.) Any adjustments in pursue of balance would mean just nerfs.

[lobster]

4 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Not intended as one, but every metric I have shows the set overperforming for single target by way more than it should (it is expected it does more damage due to it's global secondary effect being more damage.) Any adjustments in pursue of balance would mean just nerfs.

 

Agreed.

 

/fiery was great on live.  Changing snipe to be a viable attack in the chain (and now, without the tohit requirements) seems like a huge enough buff already.  I haven't felt a need to play a /fiery yet in this new era because I played the hell out of it before, and it was solid.


Re : buffing T1s : this would be great as well.  It was a long term frustration I had on live with the number of offensive secondaries where the T1 did not fit into mid to late game play.   However, for the reasons you stated I can see why leaving it locked makes sense.  For some ATs, designing a secondary offensive T1 is much easier (blasters), I think dominators are one of the more difficult ATs to find the right balance on an attack power everyone is forced to take.  I'm not even sure if I can disagree with the choice of making them all ranged, even though 90% of the dominators I play and would play spend most of their time in melee.   

 

In all the characters and builds I've done so far (except one of my /fierys on live, on which I forced myself to use flares for some reason), I leave the t1 as a useless, empty attack, but I get that others might not and why you wouldn't want to put a melee attack or even the mid recharge blast in that spot.   However, that's the only real idea I have at the moment - making the T1 an ~8s attack and changing the set's existing ~8s ranged attack to something else (maybe filling in something else that's lacking OR putting the T1 there with debuffs attached?) - but that could make things frustrating for new players. 
 

[Captain Powerhouse]

17 minutes ago, lobster said:

Re : buffing T1s : this would be great as well.  It was a long term frustration I had on live with the number of offensive secondaries where the T1 did not fit into mid to late game play.  

Note that T1s are almost always the fastest recharging power in most sets. Making them also very good DPS is very likely to turn the T2 into a useless power, and potentially many other powers in the set (since it may result in a 2 attack set.)

 

So, my goal is to add situational usability for the power. It's unlikely that these powers will ever become the most optimal powers on any set.

 

Here is an idea, (not a promise) of what I have been contemplating for a long time:

Make the weakest attack in every set have potentially no recharge, extreme accuracy and cost no endurance. Basically, a power you can still use when you are extremely debuffed and grasping for endurance. It would also result in a power that's ideal for low level players, when they cant get enough recharge to fill their attack chains.

 

This is, however, subject to lots of analysis, and make sure no outlier power out there breaks the game.

[Tater Todd]

3 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Note that T1s are almost always the fastest recharging power in most sets. Making them also very good DPS is very likely to turn the T2 into a useless power, and potentially many other powers in the set (since it may result in a 2 attack set.)

 

So, my goal is to add situational usability for the power. It's unlikely that these powers will ever become the most optimal powers on any set.

 

Here is an idea, (not a promise) of what I have been contemplating for a long time:

Make the weakest attack in every set have potentially no recharge, extreme accuracy and cost no endurance. Basically, a power you can still use when you are extremely debuffed and grasping for endurance. It would also result in a power that's ideal for low level players, when they cant get enough recharge to fill their attack chains.

 

This is, however, subject to lots of analysis, and make sure no outlier power out there breaks the game.

That sounds extremely difficult to construct power wise but you are a Powerset Magister so I'm excited to see what you come up with.  Also stop coming up with cool -ISH at this rate I'm going to have to hit like on 90% of your posts and follow you around like a lost puppy like I did with Hawkward and Synap lol.

[lobster]

7 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Note that T1s are almost always the fastest recharging power in most sets. Making them also very good DPS is very likely to turn the T2 into a useless power, and potentially many other powers in the set (since it may result in a 2 attack set.)

 

So, my goal is to add situational usability for the power. It's unlikely that these powers will ever become the most optimal powers on any set.

 

Here is an idea, (not a promise) of what I have been contemplating for a long time:

Make the weakest attack in every set have potentially no recharge, extreme accuracy and cost no endurance. Basically, a power you can still use when you are extremely debuffed and grasping for endurance. It would also result in a power that's ideal for low level players, when they cant get enough recharge to fill their attack chains.

 

This is, however, subject to lots of analysis, and make sure no outlier power out there breaks the game.

 

Yes, that's why I mentioned another power would need to change to offset that. It's probably overkill and as I don't know how much work you guys are wanting to put into each subset as you go through the powers...it would probably be more effort than the return anyway. I was just trying to think of how to make it a good power worth slotting without upsetting the balance, and my thought was "well, replace it with one of those powers and make that power something more optional".

I like where you are going with this.    What about being able to be used while mezzed like the blaster primary/secondary (except in this case it would be *only* the secondary T1)?  This would help a bunch pre-permadom.  Like the trigger for those bonuses is "has less than 5 end OR CC'd", so it couldn't be taken advantage of in non-dire situations.  I know having something usable when a sapper hits you and you have no blues, etc. would be nice and I'd probably even slot it, at least for leveling up. 

...or what about each hit with it gives you a couple seconds of low mag CC protection, so if you somehow manage to get 2-3 of them to connect you could temporarily "break free" of weaker control effects or something (max of mag 2-3?)  This could be tied to that condition or not and could be an interesting way to give dominators practice with a mini permadom?

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by lobster

[csr]

On 8/18/2019 at 5:00 PM, lobster said:

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.
 

I agree, if it's that solid it will be a pretty tough choice, as we really don't need all those attacks, but they are  all good options.  I'll just play it out and see how it feels.  One of the other servers implemented being able to choose either of your first two secondaries, I'm hoping we get that eventually.  Having dead powers is annoying. 

I have a fire/thorn I'm working on and was planning on skipping either Skewer or Impale, pre-patch changes.  Now I'm just not sure.  Typically I consider skipping the cone, but the dimensions of Fling Thorns just make it so usable...Ripper and Thorn Burst are both clunky on live, but good enough that I generally take them anyway, and now Ripper is getting even better.  Thorns is looking really competitive when this goes live.

 

I believe being able to skip Thorny Darts - or having it buffed - would mean that some of these other changes would need to be offset in some way.  My choice would be to up Darts to a 4s recharge with the DS boost that goes with that, and then dial back the -Def in the set substantially.  I honestly think the two secondary effects coupled with the new DPS buffs pushes this set to the border of OP even with the crummy Thorny Darts required.

Edited August 20, 2019 by csr

[Jaguaratron]

On 8/19/2019 at 11:00 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Personally I applaud other servers for going different paths, I am excited to see different servers take completely independent approaches to similar problems or decisions, as well as some just remaining frozen in time.

 

That being said, I would not pursue that here, personally, for the same reasons the live team didn't do so when they thought to do it: stalkers could very easily self-gimp themselves by skipping Hide and there is some internal validation voodoo that sometimes messes with builds if you don't have your secondary's T1 in the build.

 

 

With that in mind, there are things we have been considering to make these powers a bit more useful.

Given the current state of Stalkers skipping hide isnt that big of a deal at all but thats not really your point. *edit* to clarify, I mean stalkers can rock on and deal out awesome DPS without having to fall back on hide and strike now, not that they are weak in anyway.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Jaguaratron

[carroto]

With regard to Dominator secondaries, I have to say I mostly love the changes.  Especially the animation time reductions.  It's regrettable to me that animation times are in any way tied to performance in this game.  I like fast animations because combat flows so much more smoothly.  The longer the animations are, the more it tends to feel like I am an observer rather than a participant.  I've come to realize that I like sets that feel dynamic, and that mostly (but certainly not completely) comes from animation time.  So I look at that first and foremost when I'm considering a power set.  If it has too many clunky powers I have to pass.  I know I won't enjoy it.  There are a number of Dominator secondaries that are a hard pass for me in this way.

 

But it looks like if these changes go through it might open up some previously unplayable options.  That's pretty amazing.  I always wanted to play Earth Assault but I tried it back on live and it was horrid.  I haven't set up beta, and I'm on Linux so I'm not sure how easy that will be, but I may have to figure it out so I can try these changes.

 

Some specific things I'd like to call out:

 

Psionic Assault -> Telekinetic Thrust: You know I just made a /Psi Dom and looked at that power with regret yet again.  I've never understood long animation times on melee-range "Get out of my face" powers.  I want to send that baddie that's beating on me away NOW, not in a few seconds after I do some fancy posturing.  So this is wonderful.  If there's anything to complain about, it's that /Psi, which previously had the dubious advantage of having the most skippable powers, now has one less (for me anyway).

 

Martial Assault -> Spinning Kick: I'm a little disappointed by this.  As others have said it was the second melee attack in the set, one I could use as a single-target attack as needed.  Now it will mostly only make sense to use it when I can hit multiple enemies with it.  So there's just one single-target melee attack in the set now.  The lack of targeting on this power is an overall negative for me.  With other melee cones I can target the guy in the back, position as needed and fire the power, and if I'm not in range it won't fire.  With Spinning Kick if I misjudge I will just miss.  It is an interesting mechanic and I do like variety, but as I said, it is overall inferior to other melee cones.  Previously it had other benefits that offset the negatives, but now it will just be a worse version of other melee cones.  I suspect this was not lost on the original designers and they made it what it was intentionally.

 

Thorny Assault -> Ripper: Another minor disappointment.  Specifically the reduction of the arc of the cone.  I always liked the wide arc on that power on Spines characters.  It seemed to fit the animation, and it made the power easier to use and somewhat unique.  It set it apart from other melee cones.  I'm curious what the change is meant to address.

 

Overall I love the changes.  Opening up the possibilities for Dominator powersets is hugely positive for me.  I'm sure others will feel the same way.

 

[Thezanman]

 

3 hours ago, carroto said:

With regard to Dominator secondaries, I have to say I mostly love the changes.  Especially the animation time reductions.  It's regrettable to me that animation times are in any way tied to performance in this game.  I like fast animations because combat flows so much more smoothly.  The longer the animations are, the more it tends to feel like I am an observer rather than a participant.  I've come to realize that I like sets that feel dynamic, and that mostly (but certainly not completely) comes from animation time.  So I look at that first and foremost when I'm considering a power set.  If it has too many clunky powers I have to pass.  I know I won't enjoy it.  There are a number of Dominator secondaries that are a hard pass for me in this way.

One of the unique things about this game is the way powers have such varying animation times, and while it isn't implemented or balanced very well in a lot of cases, it has the potential to differentiate the way different powersets feel while playing. I personally enjoy longer animation, hard-hitting attacks compared to faster, weaker ones.

3 hours ago, carroto said:

Martial Assault -> Spinning Kick: I'm a little disappointed by this.  As others have said it was the second melee attack in the set, one I could use as a single-target attack as needed.  Now it will mostly only make sense to use it when I can hit multiple enemies with it.  So there's just one single-target melee attack in the set now.  The lack of targeting on this power is an overall negative for me.  With other melee cones I can target the guy in the back, position as needed and fire the power, and if I'm not in range it won't fire.  With Spinning Kick if I misjudge I will just miss.  It is an interesting mechanic and I do like variety, but as I said, it is overall inferior to other melee cones.  Previously it had other benefits that offset the negatives, but now it will just be a worse version of other melee cones.  I suspect this was not lost on the original designers and they made it what it was intentionally.

It's still a lot better than other cones due to its 90 degree arc and 9 ft. radius, compared to the usual 50 degrees and 7 ft. I think people forget that the way Spinning Kick works is the same way that every single PBAoE works. You just click and hit everyone in the area, without it forcing you to be in range first. Because everyone can use a PBAoE just fine, I don't really get the argument that Spinning Kick is bad because you can misjudge the range. It just takes some getting used to.

[carroto]

Regarding snipes the more I think about it the less I like the damage being tied to +tohit.  I know that the fast snipe was like this on live beta but I have my doubts it ever would have made its way to the regular servers.  It was just an experiment.  Different ATs have different modifiers to the +tohit they get from powers, and many ATs/powersets only have access to the Kismet unique and Tactics.  So the ability to get full benefit from quick snipe varies by AT.  ATs with lower damage modifiers will generally be able to get more damage from their snipes due to receiving higher +tohit from Tactics.  Is that intended?

 

Does the endurance cost scale with the damage?  Because if not it seems like the current setup is a trap for newbies.  They will get a ring around the power icon screaming "Click me!" without any understanding how it works or why their blue bar is being murdered.  Maybe worst is that since +tohit starts high at low levels and slowly scales down, it may be gradual enough that it won't be obvious that the power is getting increasingly weak and inefficient as they level up.  Requiring an IO and a pool power to keep the performance they had when the got the snipe seems like a high bar if IOs and diligent reading of the forums are not meant to be requirements for play.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but in my opinion it should have nothing to do with +tohit.

[Thezanman]

47 minutes ago, carroto said:

Regarding snipes the more I think about it the less I like the damage being tied to +tohit.  I know that the fast snipe was like this on live beta but I have my doubts it ever would have made its way to the regular servers.  It was just an experiment.  Different ATs have different modifiers to the +tohit they get from powers, and many ATs/powersets only have access to the Kismet unique and Tactics.  So the ability to get full benefit from quick snipe varies by AT.  ATs with lower damage modifiers will generally be able to get more damage from their snipes due to receiving higher +tohit from Tactics.  Is that intended?

All ATs can easily get +22% ToHit with just Tactics and Kismet, except Dominators, which is a potential concern. The bigger issue in my eyes is that ToHit debuffs will lower the damage of your snipes, but that is still far better than the current behavior of ToHit debuffs completely preventing you from using quick snipes. 

 

47 minutes ago, carroto said:

Does the endurance cost scale with the damage?  Because if not it seems like the current setup is a trap for newbies.  They will get a ring around the power icon screaming "Click me!" without any understanding how it works or why their blue bar is being murdered.  Maybe worst is that since +tohit starts high at low levels and slowly scales down, it may be gradual enough that it won't be obvious that the power is getting increasingly weak and inefficient as they level up.  Requiring an IO and a pool power to keep the performance they had when the got the snipe seems like a high bar if IOs and diligent reading of the forums are not meant to be requirements for play.

I don't see this as a significant issue. Yes, snipes cost more endurance than other powers, but it's not by that much. It certainly won't be "murdering" your blue bar.  And while it is a little odd for the damage to decrease as your beginner's luck bonus diminishes, it doesn't really matter. The damage bonus from ToHit isn't a massive amount, and AFAIK the earliest level any snipe is available is 12, already over halfway through the beginner's luck period.

 

48 minutes ago, carroto said:

I'm not sure what the answer is, but in my opinion it should have nothing to do with +tohit.

Maybe, but this change is already a huge improvement over live functionality, to the point you can completely ignore ToHit and still use snipes as a functional power. That was the goal, after all.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Thezanman