Give Venom and Frag Grenade alternate mace versions

[Thezanman]

I don't like how it looks to swap between a gun and a mace constantly as a Bane Spider Soldier. Since the Crab Spider already has backpack versions of Venom Grenade and Frag Grenade which are mutually exclusive with the gun versions, I think it makes sense for Bane Spiders to get mace versions. There's already a grenade-launcher animation for the mace on Web Cocoon, so I think that could be repurposed easily enough. Alternatively, just use the animation of Mace Beam Blast.

[Voldine]

Power economy tradeoff. You chose Bane, now you live with redraw to use Venom and Frag grenade.

[Thezanman]

37 minutes ago, Voldine said:

Power economy tradeoff. You chose Bane, now you live with redraw to use Venom and Frag grenade.

It's not power economy, it's purely a visual issue. And even if it were a mechanical issue, why should Bane be penalized and not Crab?

[Voldine]

Just now, Thezanman said:

It's not power economy, it's purely a visual issue. And even if it were a mechanical issue, why should Bane be penalized and not Crab?

Because the Bane powerset was not made with Venom or Frag built into it whereas crab was?

 

It's a tradeoff. You either go outside your primary and accept the redraw or you stick in your primary and accept that the Bane branch was not given access to Venom and Frag grenade. That's the power economy in play here. Banes shouldn't get two new power options in the powerset just because YOU don't want redraw.

[Thezanman]

1 minute ago, Voldine said:

Because the Bane powerset was not made with Venom or Frag built into it whereas crab was?

 

It's a tradeoff. You either go outside your primary and accept the redraw or you stick in your primary and accept that the Bane branch was not given access to Venom and Frag grenade. That's the power economy in play here. Banes shouldn't get two new power options in the powerset just because YOU don't want redraw.

How many times do I have to say it? I don't care whether you think Banes should be penalized for wanting to use some of their best powers (?), I just want to be visually shooting grenades from my mace, not from a gun. It's not even a matter of redraw, or I would have asked for no redraw animation options like other sets already have.

[Voldine]

It comes from a gun because you're not using a BANE power, you're using a WOLF spider power.

 

Crabs get redraw too if they accidentally choose the wolf version instead of the crab version, but Banes don't GET a version other than WOLF to use because the BANE powerset DOES. NOT. HAVE. A. VERSION. OF. THE. POWER!

 

You're asking for two NEW POWERS to be made all because you don't like what you have now. There's a REASON that the Bane powerset doesn't have those powers in it. You can either accept that you need to go outside of your chosen specialty to use a DIFFERENT WEAPON to use powers from a DIFFERENT POWERSET because the original devs CHOSE NOT TO GIVE BANES VENOM AND FRAG GRENADE INHERENTLY FOR A REASON, or you can keep pestering them about wanting to buy Greenland.

[Thezanman]

3 minutes ago, Voldine said:

It comes from a gun because you're not using a BANE power, you're using a WOLF spider power.

 

Crabs get redraw too if they accidentally choose the wolf version instead of the crab version, but Banes don't GET a version other than WOLF to use because the BANE powerset DOES. NOT. HAVE. A. VERSION. OF. THE. POWER!

 

You're asking for two NEW POWERS to be made all because you don't like what you have now. There's a REASON that the Bane powerset doesn't have those powers in it. You can either accept that you need to go outside of your chosen specialty to use a DIFFERENT WEAPON to use powers from a DIFFERENT POWERSET because the original devs CHOSE NOT TO GIVE BANES VENOM AND FRAG GRENADE INHERENTLY FOR A REASON, or you can keep pestering them about wanting to buy Greenland.

They aren't different powersets. That's literally the entire point of VEATs: you get to mix and match both. The devs didn't have some master plan to give Crab Spiders grenades and not Bane Spiders, they added a backpack version ENTIRELY FOR THE VISUAL DIFFERENCE. They wouldn't have put the grenades into the Wolf Spider powers if they didn't want Bane Spiders to use them. And by the way, redraw isn't a mechanical penalty. It's only a visual difference, the total cast time is the same. There's no balance reason not to have mace grenades, it's PURELY VISUAL.

[Voldine]

If they wanted Banes to have Mace Grenades they would have given Banes the grenade powers in the Bane powerset as well, just like they did with the Crab powers. They didn't, therefore there's a reason. Now you just need to accept the trade-off of going outside your BANE powerset to use those grenade powers.

 

After all, it is PURELY VISUAL.

[Haijinx]

There is a hand grenade animation.  Its used in several places.  

 

And there is a no redraw mace in the warmace set.

 

Perhaps combining these two things would work.  

[Thezanman]

4 minutes ago, Voldine said:

If they wanted Banes to have Mace Grenades they would have given Banes the grenade powers in the Bane powerset as well, just like they did with the Crab powers. They didn't, therefore there's a reason. Now you just need to accept the trade-off of going outside your BANE powerset to use those grenade powers.

 

After all, it is PURELY VISUAL.

I just can't imagine why anyone would be this petty. They're visual differences, there isn't meant to be a tradeoff. There could be many reasons the original devs didn't make those animations, such as being pressed for time. Regardless, it doesn't matter what the original devs thought. This is a private server.

[Thezanman]

5 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

There is a hand grenade animation.  Its used in several places.  

 

And there is a no redraw mace in the warmace set.

 

Perhaps combining these two things would work.  

Yeah, a hand grenade animation would be fine as well.

[Voldine]

3 minutes ago, Thezanman said:

I just can't imagine why anyone would be this petty. They're visual differences, there isn't meant to be a tradeoff. There could be many reasons the original devs didn't make those animations, such as being pressed for time. Regardless, it doesn't matter what the original devs thought. This is a private server.

I'm not being petty, I'm trying to get it through to you why you're wrong to be asking for special powers just because you don't like having to pull out a gun to fire grenades from a gun. The powers were coded the way they were for a reason. Banes don't have Frag and Venom Grenade powers in the Bane powerset for a reason. The fact that YOU don't like that reason is, oddly enough, NOT a valid reason to give Banes their own version of those powers.

 

And, if you don't like that, you can always go change the code yourself to do it on your own private server rather than polluting the community pool.

2 minutes ago, Thezanman said:

Yeah, a hand grenade animation would be fine as well.

Well, looks like you have a head-start on how to code your personal server!

 

[Thezanman]

4 minutes ago, Voldine said:

I'm not being petty, I'm trying to get it through to you why you're wrong to be asking for special powers just because you don't like having to pull out a gun to fire grenades from a gun. The powers were coded the way they were for a reason. Banes don't have Frag and Venom Grenade powers in the Bane powerset for a reason. The fact that YOU don't like that reason is, oddly enough, NOT a valid reason to give Banes their own version of those powers.

 

And, if you don't like that, you can always go change the code yourself to do it on your own private server rather than polluting the community pool.

Well, looks like you have a head-start on how to code your personal server!

 

You ARE being petty. You have this weird obsession with preventing Bane Spiders from receiving "special powers". You probably play a Crab Spider and whine about Bane Spiders being better or something. Either way, you don't want other people to have quality of life changes which don't affect you in the slightest because they "don't deserve it". The fact that you don't like the idea is, oddly enough, NOT a valid reason to keep the annoying animations. "Polluting the community pool"? What are you even on about. These aren't special powers, they already exist in the game, and Bane Spiders can already use them.

[Voldine]

1 minute ago, Thezanman said:

You ARE being petty. You have this weird obsession with preventing Bane Spiders from receiving "special powers". You probably play a Crab Spider and whine about Bane Spiders being better or something. Either way, you don't want other people to have quality of life changes which don't affect you in the slightest because they "don't deserve it". The fact that you don't like the idea is, oddly enough, NOT a valid reason to keep the annoying animations. "Polluting the community pool"? What are you even on about. These aren't special powers, they already exist in the game, and Bane Spiders can already use them.

Bane Spiders are not better, they just have a different specialization. That is the entire point.

 

Crabs have Frag and Venom Grenade built into their backpack kit because AoE is the specialized purpose of the Crab build.

 

Banes do NOT have Frag and Venom built into their Mace kit because Bane is the path that focuses more on single target damage.

 

THAT is the design the devs had. That is the entire purpose of not giving Banes a special mace version of the grenade powers. You picked Bane. You picked the Single Target path. Now you whine about wanting more AoE powers in your Single Target kit because you don't like having to use a gun to use your 'best' powers.

 

Seems to me you're someone who should have picked Crab if you wanted the better AoE options.

[Thezanman]

Just now, Voldine said:

Bane Spiders are not better, they just have a different specialization. That is the entire point.

 

Crabs have Frag and Venom Grenade built into their backpack kit because AoE is the specialized purpose of the Crab build.

 

Banes do NOT have Frag and Venom built into their Mace kit because Bane is the path that focuses more on single target damage.

 

THAT is the design the devs had. That is the entire purpose of not giving Banes a special mace version of the grenade powers. You picked Bane. You picked the Single Target path. Now you whine about wanting more AoE powers in your Single Target kit because you don't like having to use a gun to use your 'best' powers.

 

Seems to me you're someone who should have picked Crab if you wanted the better AoE options.

Bane Spiders ALREADY HAVE the grenades. They are in the powerset, by design, with no mechanical difference whatsoever to the Crab Spider version. This isn't about giving Bane Spiders more AoE when they are meant to be single target. They ALREADY HAVE the AoE, none is being added. Do you understand that concept? You can't pick both versions of Venom Grenade at the same time. There's some fundamental misunderstanding in your mind about what's being suggested here. 

[Voldine]

WOLF spider is where the grenade powers reside. Bane spiders do not have access to the grenade powers in the BANE spider powerset; they have to go back to the base WOLF spider set in order to pick them, and that is why you have to use a gun when you do it... because your upgraded BANE powerset does not have them due to the change in focus that picking BANE as your specialization is meant to indicate.

 

Yes, you can GO BACK to WOLF spider and choose the grenades, but that doesn't make them BANE spider powers that come from the BANE spider mace.

 

Does that fix your fundamental misunderstanding, or do I need to dumb it down further?

[Thezanman]

12 minutes ago, Voldine said:

WOLF spider is where the grenade powers reside. Bane spiders do not have access to the grenade powers in the BANE spider powerset; they have to go back to the base WOLF spider set in order to pick them, and that is why you have to use a gun when you do it... because your upgraded BANE powerset does not have them due to the change in focus that picking BANE as your specialization is meant to indicate.

 

Yes, you can GO BACK to WOLF spider and choose the grenades, but that doesn't make them BANE spider powers that come from the BANE spider mace.

 

Does that fix your fundamental misunderstanding, or do I need to dumb it down further?

If that's your problem, then what is the issue with making them hand grenades? Wolf Spiders have the ability to throw objects from their hands, right? That doesn't even need to be added as a separate power for Bane Spiders, or even replace the gun animation. It can just be an alternate animation for the Wolf Spider grenade powers that you select in the power customization screen.

[GM Fiddleback]

You guys are being civil to each other, right?  Right?

 

No. Don't answer me. Just take a deep breath and remember, be civil. 😉

[Haijinx]

I just assumed it would be part of power customization.  Much like the animation customization available in sets like super strength and martial arts. 

 

The hand grenade option could be made available for Assault Rifle as well.

 

Also i think the Soldier mastermind set has a grenade attack?  

 

[Razor Cure]

Agreed. Let Bane's fire venom from the mace. Not having a whole second of redraw (or whatever) is hardly going to suddenly make Banes super over powered, and it would look so much cooler.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Frag Grenade can go without the animation change since there are AOE tools in the mace that are roughly equivalent, but Given that Venom Grenade is the best power in the entire AT there is no reason to penalize Banes for picking their strongest power while Crabs aren't.

 

That or give Mace Beam Blast similar functionality and lock out Venom Grenade if you take it like Crab Venom Grenade does.

[JJDrakken]

No, deal with it or whine elsewhere.

 

[GM Capocollo]

56 minutes ago, JJDrakken said:

No, deal with it or whine elsewhere.

 

This kind of response is unwarranted.

[Chance Jackson]

On 8/21/2019 at 5:46 PM, Thezanman said:

I don't like how it looks to swap between a gun and a mace constantly as a Bane Spider Soldier. Since the Crab Spider already has backpack versions of Venom Grenade and Frag Grenade which are mutually exclusive with the gun versions, I think it makes sense for Bane Spiders to get mace versions. There's already a grenade-launcher animation for the mace on Web Cocoon, so I think that could be repurposed easily enough. Alternatively, just use the animation of Mace Beam Blast.

I 2nd this motion

[Cidri]

Same problem constantly changing between gun and spider arm weapons on a crab spider. Would be nice if both could be fixed.