Tankers and Knockback Resistance vs Knockback Protection

[Rylas]

28 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

No one is being Uncivil...

Said the guy that dropped the word "p*ssies" into the conversation.

[Rylas]

Something that I didn't notice mentioned is that Grounded is a passive power. It could be by design that KB resistance is weaker because the power cost no endurance. 

 

Not that it necessarily has to stay that way.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Rylas

[EverStryke]

Just now, Rylas said:

Said the guy that dropped the word "p*ssies" into the conversation.

Tempest said keep it civil friend. Antagonist behavior isn't productive.

 

This is a topic I'm very interested in. In my candidness, my offbeat humor obviously offended ppl.

 

For that I have already talked to GMs.

 

Let's keep it productive.

[EverStryke]

Just now, Rylas said:

Something that I didn't notice mentioned is that Grounded is a passive power. It could be by design that KB resistance is weaker because the power cost no endurance. 

 

Not that it necessarily has to stay that way.

It's KB protection is 15ish

 

If it was lower, I would side with you 

 

But if it's showing a static value, and no resistance, Therin lays the problem impo.

 

Passive or not. Value doesn't change.

 

Interestin perspective though. Thanks for the input. Keep it coming.

 

[Rylas]

26 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

Tempest said keep it civil friend. Antagonist behavior isn't productive.

 

This is a topic I'm very interested in. In my candidness, my offbeat humor obviously offended ppl.

 

For that I have already talked to GMs.

 

Let's keep it productive.

Relax, friend. I was merely pointing out (rather tongue in cheek) the reason someone would have to ask for civility. One would think pointing out that blind spot would be productive.

 

And if not, would my following comment after that not show I intend to be productive in the conversation? 

[Rylas]

25 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

Passive or not. Value doesn't change.

That's the thing, passive powers don't tend to offer all the same coverage as their toggle counterparts. 

 

That said, it would seem an odd choice not to offer quite the same level of protection in Grounded (when feet are on the ground), if there's only ever one place that it would matter — Lord Recluse. My guess is that it's an oversight, and that it could get corrected now that it's been brought to light. 

[EverStryke]

5 minutes ago, Rylas said:

Relax, friend. I was merely pointing out (rather tongue in cheek) the reason someone would have to ask for civility. One would think pointing out that blind spot would be productive.

 

And if not, would my following comment after that not show I intend to be productive in the conversation? 

The following comment was very helpful.

 

I just find it hard to deal with forums nowadays since everyone is offended at everything.

 

you can't even make tongue-in-cheek humor without somebody trying to post a report on you.

 

Very frustrating trying to dance on eggshells having a conversation with people that are offended so easily.

 

Just showing my age I guess.

 

As I said keep the comments coming this is an important topic.

 

Our Discord is always open if you want to come in and talk.

[EverStryke]

6 minutes ago, Rylas said:

That's the thing, passive powers don't tend to offer all the same coverage as their toggle counterparts. 

 

That said, it would seem an odd choice not to offer quite the same level of protection in Grounded (when feet are on the ground), if there's only ever one place that it would matter — Lord Recluse. My guess is that it's an oversight, and that it could get corrected now that it's been brought to light. 

And that's what me and crimson has been trying to bring to the forefront.

 

And if we follow your line of reasoning as we have it's strange that the fire tankers aren't able to resist it because they're knock-back protection should be coming from plasma Shield. But it was never added.

 

I agree with you I think it was an oversight and it needs to be corrected.

 

Or at bare minimum we have the ability to correct it.

[Rylas]

14 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

I just find it hard to deal with forums nowadays since everyone is offended at everything.

While over sensitivity is surely an issue sometimes, I think it's always safe to assume dropping the P-word, C-word, F-word or other C-word (think "rooster") are going to have iffy reception. I could tell you weren't trying to be derogatory when you used it, but that's just one of those words that's going to cause a "record scratch" moment in a forum that's generally family friendly. 

[EverStryke]

14 minutes ago, Rylas said:

While over sensitivity is surely an issue sometimes, I think it's always safe to assume dropping the P-word, C-word, F-word or other C-word (think "rooster") are going to have iffy reception. I could tell you weren't trying to be derogatory when you used it, but that's just one of those words that's going to cause a "record scratch" moment in a forum that's generally family friendly. 

If it were directed towards others... Ok. I see it. But it was not. 

 

I'm of a different generation with much thicker skin. It's really hard to offend me.

 

I keep forgetting that words hurt younger people.

 

Used to take sticks and stones in my days. lol.

 

Now let's get back to knock-back protection versus knock-back resistance while discussing it in our safe space!!!

[Purrfekshawn]

Try to tank him standing next to the wall, so his KB would send you to the wall. With right positioning you will bounce off wall and end up into exact same place you were knocked from. It's something players tend to do in SWTOR, where tanks have no innate mez resistance.

[EverStryke]

Just now, Purrfekshawn said:

Try to tank him standing next to the wall, so his KB would send you to the wall. With right positioning you will bounce off wall and end up into exact same place you were knocked from. It's something players tend to do in SWTOR, where tanks have no innate mez resistance.

Yeah it's really the only other option.

 

But it kind of sucks.

 

We could just make tanks great again, so I'll keep crossing my fingers that they make some changes.

[MunkiLord]

41 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

GET OFF MY LAWN

Fixed.

[Steampunkette]

49 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

If it were directed towards others... Ok. I see it. But it was not. 

 

I'm of a different generation with much thicker skin. It's really hard to offend me.

 

I keep forgetting that words hurt younger people.

 

Used to take sticks and stones in my days. lol.

 

Now let's get back to knock-back protection versus knock-back resistance while discussing it in our safe space!!!

You called people who hovertank Pussies. That's why the GM popped in. That's not an "Oversensitive" issue. It's not a "Thick Skin" issue. You insulted people.

 

I popped up to try and defuse things with a joke about the strength of pussies... but yeah. 

 

And your "Safe Space" comment is just another deflecting insult on top of the younger people old man shakes a stick at millennials guffaw guffaw.

 

Young people these days aren't "Overly Sensitive". We just have the pussies to stand up to insults and rude behavior. I would say we have the 'balls', but balls are soft, exposed, weak, and fragile things. 😉

[EverStryke]

2 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

You called people who hovertank Pussies. That's why the GM popped in. That's not an "Oversensitive" issue. It's not a "Thick Skin" issue. You insulted people.

 

I popped up to try and defuse things with a joke about the strength of pussies... but yeah. 

 

And your "Safe Space" comment is just another deflecting insult on top of the younger people old man shakes a stick at millennials guffaw guffaw.

 

Young people these days aren't "Overly Sensitive". We just have the pussies to stand up to insults and rude behavior. I would say we have the 'balls', but balls are soft, exposed, weak, and fragile things. 😉

You can't make me not like you =).

[justicebeliever]

59 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

If it were directed towards others... Ok. I see it. But it was not. 

 

I'm of a different generation with much thicker skin. It's really hard to offend me.

 

I keep forgetting that words hurt younger people.

 

Used to take sticks and stones in my days. lol.

 

Now let's get back to knock-back protection versus knock-back resistance while discussing it in our safe space!!!

You keep responding to everyone whose calling you on this by deflecting blame...If you really want to focus on the KB issue, just apologize and move on...If you want people to keep calling you out, keep deflecting blame to someone else or some other generation...

 

It'd be neat to see someone from the older generation model responsibility to the younger generation..."Your right, it's clear it's offensive...I didn't mean to be, or maybe I did a little, but regardless, I am sorry to whoever it's offended"...

[EverStryke]

5 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

You keep responding to everyone whose calling you on this by deflecting blame...If you really want to focus on the KB issue, just apologize and move on...If you want people to keep calling you out, keep deflecting blame to someone else or some other generation...

 

It'd be neat to see someone from the older generation model responsibility to the younger generation..."Your right, it's clear it's offensive...I didn't mean to be, or maybe I did a little, but regardless, I am sorry to whoever it's offended"...

 

Let's keep it on the topic at hand.

 

The issue has already been addressed and handled. Please don't derail such an important topic.

 

Knockback protection vs Resistance.

 

If you wish to have civil discourse on the generational inequities please begin with DMs.

 

Thanks and let's make tanks great again. It'll be great, we will make millions. Everyone will be so happy.

Edited September 4, 2019 by EverStryke

[Steampunkette]

It really hasn't been handled, Everstryke. You've not apologized. That's, like, the bare minimum level of courtesy that your generation -demanded- of my generation. Drove through our heads all day every day.

 

And acting like it was handled, or that this has been a civil conversation since that post, is a form of Gaslighting. Gaslighting is a type of mental and emotional abuse where the party who commits an offense acts as though there was no offense. That it just didn't happen. OR that it's over and done with without any action on their part to attempt to make amends.

 

And on top of that you're trying to put the burden on others to engage you in civil discourse in PMs? Man what a backhanded insult from the person who was uncivil.

 

Like... I get that you're a proud guy. But you're not helping yourself by trying to deflect, endlessly. 

 

Apologize. Don't apologize. This'll be our last interaction. Happy trails, Cowboy.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Steampunkette

[justicebeliever]

7 minutes ago, EverStryke said:

The issue has already been addressed and handled. Please don't derail such an important topic.

Clearly not...and if it's that important to you...decide what's MOST important, being right and continuing this thread on the necessity of politeness, or getting your issue addressed by apologizing and moving back to your topic...

[MunkiLord]

11 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

It really hasn't been handled, Everstryke. You've not apologized. That's, like, the bare minimum level of courtesy that your generation -demanded- of my generation. Drove through our heads all day every day.

 

And acting like it was handled, or that this has been a civil conversation since that post, is a form of Gaslighting. Gaslighting is a type of mental and emotional abuse where the party who commits an offense acts as though there was no offense. That it just didn't happen. OR that it's over and done with without any action on their part to attempt to make amends.

 

And on top of that you're trying to put the burden on others to engage you in civil discourse in PMs? Man what a backhanded insult from the person who was uncivil.

 

Like... I get that you're a proud guy. But you're not helping yourself by trying to deflect, endlessly. 

 

Apologize. Don't apologize. This'll be our last interaction. Happy trails, Cowboy.

For this topic I'm going to agree with everything Steampunkette says.

[CrimsonOne]

Can we please get back to the subject at hand, instead of bickering over who's right, and who's wrong? I would appreciate it!

 

Moving on, Looking at all the Status Protections in Mid's, they pretty much mimic each other with a 12.98 base for Stun, Sleep and Immobilize, and then 10 for Knockback. Except Shield and Stone they get a huge bump in some of their numbers. Of course, no Knockback for Fire and Dark here. 

 

In Status Resistance, EVERYONE gets the same 75.7% to Sleep. All but three get the Knockback Resistance (the point of this thread). Only four get Repel Resistance, not a big deal. And only one is super special and has Teleport Resistance. 

 

Debuff Resistances vary as you can see.

 

[EverStryke]

Just now, CrimsonOne said:

Can we please get back to the subject at hand, instead of bickering over who's right, and who's wrong? I would appreciate it!

 

Moving on, Looking at all the Status Protections in Mid's, they pretty much mimic each other with a 12.98 base for Stun, Sleep and Immobilize, and then 10 for Knockback. Except Shield and Stone they get a huge bump in some of their numbers. Of course, no Knockback for Fire and Dark here. 

 

In Status Resistance, EVERYONE gets the same 75.7% to Sleep. All but three get the Knockback Resistance (the point of this thread). Only four get Repel Resistance, not a big deal. And only one is super special and has Teleport Resistance. 

 

Debuff Resistances vary as you can see.

 

So maybe adding a debuff resistance to knock back in one of the autos or toggles may be another solution?

[Steampunkette]

I kind of feel like not having the Knockback Resistance is a thematic part of playing those sets.

 

Like... If I'm playing a character who is Invulnerable, standing tall when someone hits me with the force of a tank-blast fits the theme of -being- the invulnerable brick who weathers whatever comes at her. Like Captain Marvel getting head-butted by Thanos and no-selling it.

 

Meanwhile "My power is being on fire!" doesn't scream "You can't knock me through a building". It screams "I'm on fire!". Same thing with Electricity and Shadow Manipulation.

 

I'm of the opinion that Radiation probably needs it's KB Resistance taken away. At least Shields/Willpower/SR have other reasonable things going for them (Like deflecting/absorbing the blow with a shield, overcoming the force with telekinesis/tenacity, or using super-agility to redirect the force and not go anywhere)

 

Radiation's just... weird. Honestly, Bio Armor is, too, kind of? Yank it out of there, as well. (I say that as a Bio Armor Main)

[MunkiLord]

I don't really have a view on it one way or the other, I'm happy either way. But is adjusting something like this based on what super buffed Lord Recluse can do the proper metric to use?

[CrimsonOne]

10 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

I kind of feel like not having the Knockback Resistance is a thematic part of playing those sets.

 

Like... If I'm playing a character who is Invulnerable, standing tall when someone hits me with the force of a tank-blast fits the theme of -being- the invulnerable brick who weathers whatever comes at her. Like Captain Marvel getting head-butted by Thanos and no-selling it.

 

Meanwhile "My power is being on fire!" doesn't scream "You can't knock me through a building". It screams "I'm on fire!". Same thing with Electricity and Shadow Manipulation.

 

I'm of the opinion that Radiation probably needs it's KB Resistance taken away. At least Shields/Willpower/SR have other reasonable things going for them (Like deflecting/absorbing the blow with a shield, overcoming the force with telekinesis/tenacity, or using super-agility to redirect the force and not go anywhere)

 

Radiation's just... weird. Honestly, Bio Armor is, too, kind of? Yank it out of there, as well. (I say that as a Bio Armor Main)

See, I wouldn't mind that approach either, just adjusting the other armor sets so there is some resemblance of balance. 

 

Or, even adding in what @EverStryke mentioned earlier about changing Acrobatics to include Knockback Resistance and then any AT can add it into their build. This way it would require sacrificing a power slot to gain the advantage if it was important to your build. I wouldn't make it as strong as the Tank version but make it worth taking and slotting for at least. 

 

19 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I don't really have a view on it one way or the other, I'm happy either way. But is adjusting something like this based on what super buffed Lord Recluse can do the proper metric to use?

I have only tested using Recluse so far, but I am sure there are other AV's or mobs that can hit just as hard and have KB as well. It's just one of those things that bugged me so I started looking at it more. 😃