[What do you do once you collect them all?]

4 hours ago, Jolly Ogre said:

I will not do this again... i still have PVP ones to get which will be a pain.

 

Then the Keys and TPN masters... yeah right trying to get a league all together on the same page?  It took me weeks just to get Master Miss Lib because I could not get 8 people to listen for 1 hr.

I've found doing a couple of iterations of these Masters' works better than crossing your fingers one person doesn't screw it up. The two arena badges which require patience and coordination are also a pain, as you said.

[State of the Project - August 2020]

In before someone complains for no reason! (joking!)

 

Thank you so much for the update Jimmy! And thank you to the volunteer Homecoming staff, GMs, and development team. I appreciate the tease and I look forward to continuing to play this great game with this awesome community we've built.

 

Keep it up!

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

25 minutes ago, Marine X said:

Copy and Paste of my Idea in another Post from Monday:

 

Perhaps there is an as yet unmentioned opportunity here. What If you used the PVP Exemplar mechanic, everyone to a certain level and used it somewhere that hardly gets used, say the ECHO Zones. They could each get locked to set range like the PVP Zones but be PVE. It would certainly liven up that Badge hunt in Echo: Faultline if those CoT at the bottom of that trench could actually hurt you. we could consider them Flashback Zones since they are tied to Ouroboros, just a thought.

 

Echo: Atlas Park - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork

Echo Galaxy City - 1 - 6 Hellions / Vahz / Clockwork ( Maybe rework to spawn 6-14 Outcasts / Trolls / Igneous / Skulls / Lost

Echo: Faultline - 14-19 Vahz / CoT / Clockwork

Echo: Dark Astoria - 21 - 29 Banished Pantheon / Circle of Thorns / Tsoo

Echo: Rikti Crash Site - 40 - 50 Rikti / Crey / Devouring Earth / Nemesis Snipers

Edited Monday at 02:37 PM by Marine X

Great idea! Looks like we had similar thought progression. I like the idea of tying them more to Ouro as well. You are essentially going back in time using the Fire and Ice Crystal, so it would stand to reason that those zones have a certain level range.

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

5 hours ago, Oginth said:

What if Echo always get invaded? Let's say, week one of September, only Galaxy City Echo is invaded by Rikti. Week two, another Echo is invaded by another faction. This continues on until it repeats back at Galaxy City Echo with Rikti.

 

Down side: Invasion events may get too common, and GM will have nothing to throw at us.

Interesting idea

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

7 hours ago, macskull said:

Ehhh... the only PvP zone that's consistently active across all the servers is RV on Indomitable and there's pretty much nothing you can do to change that. Adding more PvP-enabled zones will probably not spread the PvP population out more, the new zones will just be dead.

I'm seeing this comment and others like it as a common response to my suggestion. I appreciate the feedback. Thank you. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

1 minute ago, chi1701 said:

Out of curiosity, Ive played World of Warcraft and their pve servers have the option of enabling and disabling pvp, could this be a compromise if this type of system worked? 

The system exists in this game as well, but requires developer console command access to turn off or on. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

9 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

This suggestion feels like a solution in search of a problem.  I don't identify a current problem that this would remedy, and I could easily imagine future problems that would arise from it.  Firm no vote.

Thanks

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

35 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

But more active with what players?  This is the part I don't understand,  PVP players already don't use most of the existing PVP zones.  Why would they use these new zones?  What's going to attract them there?  If the proposal doesn't include a mechanism to actually increase the number of players who want to PVP, you have, at best, less activity in some zones balanced by more activity in others.  So you've made the Echoes more active, and the other PVP zones less active.  How does that benefit the game or players?

 

Honestly, the only outcome I can imagine is that any badgers -- the only people who do, currently, actually make use of the Echoes -- will be cranky, and will spend less time there, due to the annoying PVP game mechanics and the outside chance of ganking.   So it would most likely have the exact opposite effect in terms of total player time spent in the Echoes.

 

Incidentally, do people RP in the Echo zones?  If they do, I don't imagine adding PVP mechanics would improve their experience, either.

Very good points. I'll have to rethink my suggestion with this caveat in mind. 

 

Thank you

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

2 minutes ago, Greycat said:

First, "easy to implement" is never a good thing to assume.

 

Second, even if the zones were switched to PVP and nobody cared, there's one OTHER thing that would probably annoy people. PVP mechanics for powers *are different* from what they are in PVE in many cases. Hell, it's one of the reasons PVP withered after the changes implemented in i13.

 

So not only would your proposed change keep people out who are absolutely opposed to PVP (and deprive us of zones where, for instance, people can hold RP events - Galaxy used to be a very popular event for that - because they don't want someone coming by and *starting fights* for the "fun" of disrupting events,) but even those who would otherwise not care would have zones where their powers operated differently.

 

 

Fair enough. I went in to the dev console on my private server and changed the player flag mechanic to all. That worked. It's the same as how the zone Warburg works.

 

I have experienced the differences you discussed between powers for PvE and PvP. I think that because it's a legacy decision that we are stuck with it. 

 

I appreciate the points you have made. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

1 minute ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

See here is what you dont seem to be understanding, and are certainly not making any kind of real argument, you just keep stating what you want, and finish with a condescending thank you. What your advocating for would be a active deterrent to the above reasons people might choose to go to these zones currently. I am certainly not going to feel comfortable holding an RP memorial for Galaxy Girl in Galaxy City and her statue if while we are all there with our toggles turned off and having a  nice social RP moment, we can get ganked by scum bags.

 

Nor am I going to go hunt  the GM in DA echo with less then a decked out 50 loaded for war if I have to risk ganking. Nor are badge tour guides going to casually use their own fresh alts while showing others the routes to the more obscure badges in such zones if they can be ganked.

 

You need to offer actually arguments for why what you want would not lead to any negative impact on players current player habits.

 

Otherwise nothing you say has any substance nor validity. Thank you very much!

Hi,  my suggestion is not an ultimatum. I can enjoy all the game play mechanics you mentioned in your post if these zones were to be modified as I suggested. 

 

I appreciate the passion of those who have replied to my suggestion. I love this game too and I'm happy we can discuss how we think the game could be improved. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

7 hours ago, Black Zot said:

There is no middle ground - a zone either allows PvP and is empty, or forbids it and might see some activity depending on what else there is to do there.  If you want to add foot traffic to a zone, add missions and PvE objectives that point there.  Forcing PvP on people just encourages them to find other zones - or other games - to spend their time.

I am more hopeful there is a middle ground - this is a suggestion not an ultimatum. I pointed out in an earlier post that all of the normal content was removed from these Echo zones, except for their street spawns. So aside from the badges I've collected and the fun ambience of sitting on the tops of the faults in Echo Faultline or wandering through the foggy and aptly named streets of Echo Dark Astoria, there aren't any gameplay mechanics present in these zones that currently draw players in to experience them. I'm advocating for using an existing game mechanic, which is easily implemented by changing the flagging of players, in to Echo zones to increase the number of reasons a player may venture there. I love badging, I love looking at and exploring the intricacies of this game, I love PvP - these are all game play mechanics. My suggestion looks to use one of these. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

3 hours ago, srmalloy said:

From what I've seen in other MMOs -- and one of the things that encouraged me to join CoH just after launch was that it didn't have PvP -- is that entirely too much of PvP consists of people whose only measure of their "1337 5k1LLz" (and, yes, I'm using 'leet' deprecatingly, as many of them are so firmly wedded to it that I wonder if they can actually write coherent English) as a gamer is how fast their level-capped combat god with BiS gear can gank newbies fresh out of the starting zone, roaming around looking to bump their gank score. Sort of like people measuring their worth by how many ants they've stepped on.

Well it's a game mechanic that has existed in this game for a long time, so I'm advocating for it to be implemented in Echo zones. 

 

Thank you for your post. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

6 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

I feel like I'm fundamentally missing something about this suggestion.

 

There's already such a small PVP population in the game that it almost all takes place in the Arena + one out of the four PVP zones.  And your proposal to make PVP more popular is to take the miniscule sub-population of PVPers who PVP in the other three zones and spread them out over seven zones instead?

 

What's the actual mechanism by which you envisage this increasing the number of players who want to PVP?  Badgers don't convert into PVPers when they've collected the exploration badges in four zones, but eight zones will somehow definitely do the trick?  I genuine don't understand the thinking behind this.

My suggestion is to make the Echo zones more active by bringing in a game mechanic which is minimally resource intensive to implement. Going in to the dev command and changing the flag player rules. 

 

Badges and chilling/nostalgia are the reasons I and other folks in this thread have mentioned for visiting these zones. I'm advocating for adding another reason to visit them. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

7 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Why would it require a "tremendous amount of investment of time and resources"?  The zones are already built.

Adding Incarnate content to the Echo zone was what my quote was referring to. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

10 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

At least to me, these would be better utilized as zones for much needed incarnate level co-op content instead of PvP.  There are already plenty of lower level zones in my opinion.

This is a fair alternative and I would support this suggestion. I think it would require a tremendous amount of investment of time and resources though, so I'm more inclined to my suggestion which would just require a dev command to flag all for PvP.

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

4 minutes ago, Ferrus_Xeno said:

No thank you, PVP has never been liked in this game except by a VERY vocal minority.  Like Apparition said, I would just avoid the zone completely.

Thank you for your post. Perhaps a middle ground could be found or compromise could be reached for the folks who do not support my suggestion. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

1 minute ago, Black Zot said:

 

The evidence is already there, in this or any other game you care to look at, that adding open PvP to a zone does not and cannot increase traffic in said zone.  Your hope is an illusion at best.

I am open to reviewing the evidence you mention.

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

3 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

The OP may think that the way to make PvP more popular in this game is to make it harder to avoid... "Hey, if people *HAVE* to go into PvP zones for Thing X then surely they'll come to love and embrace being stabbed by other players!"

 

I'm not sure that's ever worked, but hope seems to spring eternal. XD

I'm not suggesting making PvP more popular or unpopular, though that may be a byproduct of my suggestion. My suggestion is intended to provide another reason to visit these underutilized zones. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

2 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Your suggestion I think doesn't account for the fact PvP is not only disliked by a significant portion of the player base, but a major reason for many to actively avoid those zones.  Basically your suggestion might lead to the exact opposite a decrease in traffic.

This is a valid observation. As I mentioned in my OP, these zones do not serve any game play function besides players like myself badging there or going to chill. And I agree, I can't prove my suggestion wouldn't end up doing the opposite of what I intended. My hope is it doesn't though!

 

Thank you 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

2 minutes ago, Lines said:

 

I'd say you're putting the cart before the horse a bit. The devs don't need to add more of a broken system in order to prioritise fixing it. I'm not against the idea in principle, but it would need PvP to be fun for everyone first, else the echo zones would get emptier before they get fuller. How on earth we get from where we are to there, I don't know.

Indeed. A difficult, but not insurmountable problem. I would agree that it is premature to put one before the other, but I can hope doing so would lead to change. 

 

Thanks

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

1 minute ago, Coyotedancer said:

So what this comes down to is wanting to provide PvPers with more soft targets, using things the Echo zone badges and tram/Ouro access as bait...

 

There's more than enough of that in the existing PvP zones.

/jranger

 

 

My suggestion is intended to provide another reason to visit these underutilized zones. I visit them for badging and chill time, as others have mentioned in this thread. By adding another game mechanic to these zones, it could promote more unique visits by players.

 

Thank you for your post. 

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

3 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

It's not a matter of levels... It's a matter of not wanting to be blasted/stabbed/encased in stone/or what-the-hell-ever by some opportunistic PvPer looking for easy kills while you're just bouncing through Echo Galaxy to get to the tram station to exit to Ouro. (And yes. People do that before level 15. You can get the badge from level 1, though the portal power won't be active-)

 

You know as well as I do that it would only be a matter of time before someone started scouting ambush positions next to that tram station or the base teleport drop-point for EXACTLY that reason. 

I'm not arguing how players may or may not exercise gameplay mechanics, my suggestion is intended to promote an increase in foot traffic in to these zones. Your point does bring up valid concerns though about the layout of safe areas within the zone which leads me to believe it would need to be addressed for my suggestion to be successful. 

 

I had forgotten about the before Level 11 glitch to get in to Ouro after using the Echo zone base teleporter. I've used it myself for my badger when he was a lowly hero.

 

Thank you for the discussion!

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

2 minutes ago, Lines said:

I think those reasons would need to be resolved first before more ambient PvP is added.

I agree with this, but I made my suggestion knowing full well the shortfalls of the game mechanic. Perhaps increasing the player base interest in this game mechanic via my suggestion would lead to a higher priority of our awesome volunteer dev team and HC staff towards addressing these issues. 

 

Thanks for your reply!

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

6 minutes ago, Apparition said:

I understand and certainly appreciate that, but as of right now the people that mostly go into the zones are badgers.  Badgers and PvP generally don’t mix well.  On a personal level, it would mean that I lose access to those zones and The Atlas Medallion accolade on new characters (among a host of other badges).

I completely grasp the divide you mention between those two player bases, but I am an exception to that observation. I love badging and I love PvP. Both are really enjoyable to me in this game. I can see how my suggestion may alter how you and others play this fun game, so I would definitely support a compromise to give those dissenting players a voice and show of support.

[Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones]

3 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

PvP isn't a particularly popular passtime on the Homecoming servers, so I doubt there'll be much widespread support for "adding" any more zones devoted to it. Especially not when those zones already contain things that PvE players may want to access. (Yes, there are already badges in the other, already-existing PvP zones, too... But not everyone is exactly thrilled about that as it is-) 

 

You would also kill off one of the things that keeps Atlas Park's local/broadcast chat from being over-run with "Can somebody drop me an Ouro portal?!" requests. 😝

While I agree that PvP isn't particularly popular in this game, the suggestion wasn't to add zones, it was to change existing and underutilized zones in to ones which supported and incentivized player visits. 

 

I believe there is a Level 11 cap for using the Ouro portal, (and Level 15 for the Ouro flashback content). That is in line with my suggestion of Echo: Galaxy City being a Level 15-30 zone.