Haijinx

Brutes actually are getting a slight buff. Arent they? Their ranged modifier is going up

For 95% of level 50 content for a lot of sets the Tanker has no practical survival advantage over a brute. Probably a lot lower level than that tbh. But a lot of people don't use many sets until 50.

Without accurate metrics, you'll also have a hard time knowing if you nerfed the set enough. Of course you'd need to decide where you want the set to be also. Right now it sounds like the claim is it is #1 for both ST and AOE damage. At least on scrappers. Subjectively my personal impression is my stalker was a lot better for ST up to this point at least during team play. But im willing to concede that may be just my preference for fast moving sets.

Maybe? If the time is so fast that the fundamental operation of things like the pylons actual regen tick events come into play ... And are more affected the faster you go ... Then your ruler is broken. --- Its the relativity problem. Except we don't have a formula to correct for it.

There will always be those who want the game to remain as it was when the NCsoft servers closed.

A custom punching bag that was consistent in the ranges we are trying to measure would be better than the pylon. Especially if you aren't planning to nerf everything down to the 400 dps range or whatever. If say TW is 700 dps and RM is 560 and WM is 500 ... It would be nice to know that TW is actually 700, RM is actually 560 and WM is actually 500. Rather than .. well somewhere in there the pylon is wonky so we kinda maybe dont know, but its ISH So you'd probably want a punching bag that was as linear and consistent as possible from 200 to 1000dps.

This is extremely interesting. Thank you. Seems like testing it as beta had it, would be valuable.

Maybe it would be worthwhile to develop something. Since you could use that to rate the under-performing sets also. For example, since the Pylon starts to be erratic when times are below 2 minutes, you might need a different kind of "Pylon" You likely need some sort of AOE test as well .. since you could to gage the difference between just hitting a rage fueled Foot Stomp vs hitting Titan Sweep then Whirling Smash.

If you Nerf what is evidently one of the most popular sets in the entire game, You are going to be repeating what happened with EM. Maybe worse since EM wasn't as relatively popular, and there is a contingent that resists doing any changes from the way things were when the game closed down. Additionally most people will have even more aversion to looking at numbers than Ifinitum and will just have a gut reaction. So yeah, needs to be done carefully. honestly from a PR standpoint, buffing the lower sets actually does sound "Easier" .. even though there are a ton of them.

The current point at that particular part of the thread was ST damage. If you are going to get people on board with nerfs, they will have to be extremely carefully considered, and targeted. Otherwise you are just going to get a lot of /jrangers. This set is live, not beta, the bar for nerfing is consequently higher.

I dont think good ST damage is the problem. The stated problem is extreme ST damage, right? So it makes sense to target the more extreme aspects first. ST was the current discussion point, whirling smash and defensive sweep would be part of an AOE point.

TW is kind of slow out of the gate so you aren't getting the gauntlet in as soon as some sets perhaps.

I think if we didn't have some unhappy brute players posting as a result of increased tanker damage, then the change wouldn't be any good. I would expect the reverse in a thread about increasing brute survivability.

I took all of the attacks except the teir 1. I don't need a def boost with all that knock down and the recharges are so long i need a lot of attacks. I just got hasten though, so i haven't managed to do 2 followthroughs in one momentum yet, ill try it. I think if the double follow through is the big offender maybe that is what should be looked at first, instead of more sweeping changes set wide.

If people don't use 2 follow throughs though, how OP is the set in those situations? Since lowering DPS will increase the need for optimization. What i mean is this. You don't want to make it so people have to use 2 follow throughs as a fix for the problem of using two follow throughs. >.<

The fact that bruising benefits the whole team makes balancing it harder though. And expanding it multiplies that issue. Adding damage to the tank does little to overall team balance, since all other melees already do more damage than the Tanker. Turning bruising into a aoe resist debuff would make them force multipliers like defenders. Not saying that is necessarily a horrible idea, but it could actually change the game more than the propsed changes.

It seems like if you made it so you could only follow through once you'd reduce this situational uber dps. But the how seems tricky. Since reducing momemtum uptime would make the set feel even clunkier. And dramatically reduce set performance for people who aren't getting two follow throughs in.

So its possible but highly unlikely to be used on a SO build. But pretty easy to pull off with IOs Hmm.

This would be nice. My wish would be to slow the recharge of jab and punch to mirror stone melee (and thus increase damage/dpa based on the rec/dam formula) And increase the damage of hurl a bit. Then go to single rage refreshing instead of stacking. Of course this would push SS way past stone melee, which would be an issue. But as far as SS goes, it would move its benefits from high recharge closer to what other sets get. As long as double rage exists they would be crazy to address the lackluster powers in the set .. Which is ironic, since the double rage advocates use those as the rationalization for double rage.

That does sound like its fairly difficult to achieve though, timing it so you can manage two follow throughs on a single momentum cycle in a dynamic team setting. If you couldn't do that i doubt it would change how most people play the set. How much recharge do you need for two?

I agree. The current market is much better. Wanting a return to the ultra elitism is not cool. Not all of us are wired to be day trading speculators.

And a vote for the demise of civilization

Null the gull speed boost only affects the run speed portion

Stamina being inherent now also makes Primaries with no Sustain a lot easier to live with, no annoying climb to 20 That and IOs that let you partly patch PSI holes. Still, if tankers are less necessary at incarnate levels, that would also suggest having a good taunt aura as a Tanker is also less necessary.

Its only good on Blasters.