Rudra

Yes. Have you not read the posts? The OP is that +4/x8 is too easy on any AT using any power set with any power choices with no IOs and no incarnate powers. WITH IOs and incarnate powers, I can only do +4/x8 on ONE of my characters, and I have to be very conscientious about mobs and how badly I am getting stomped. The rest struggle at +2/x2 or LESS. So if you up the difficulty because you can sleep through +4/x8, then players like me can't play. So you want the game to cater to you specifically rather than the community as a whole. If challenging content for you is released, great! Have fun! I shall adore you from the safety of super kindergarten. But to change the entire game? No.

And there is no point to a video game if you can't play it for being too difficult either.

Content would be great. The OP is about weakening the entire game's defense system and upping mob to hit. If this were about content to challenge players, I wouldn't be arguing.

I don't recall saying anyone had a dashboard of cheats.... Anyway, yes, I have access to all the same powers and enhancements that you do. However, obviously you are better at it. Obviously I am not. I cannot play at your level. I prefer to play with my own gaming style and enjoy the game. You prefer to max out and stomp the game. Good on you. You have already said I am a bad player. I have already admitted it. So changing the game to make it a challenge for you when I am already being challenged just means that you get to play and I don't. Because as already stated, I am not as good as you.

So only players that can play at your level are allowed to play the game then? Because that is exactly what you are saying. "I'm an uber player that is bored because content is not aimed at challenging me specifically. So increase the difficulty so only I can play."

Yep. I'm an absolutely terrible player. Can't even finish a level 1 mission as a level 50 at -1/x1. I already know I'm not as good as some of you. I can't solo +4/x8 with just any character like the rest of you. You want to actually discuss the OP or just attack me? The whole point is that guess what? Some of us are not uber players. So if you think the game is too easy, play it the way the OP says you can. No IOs. So no procs and no set bonuses. No incarnate powers including the passive buffs and the passive debuff. Then try +4/x8. Still too easy? Use DOs instead of SOs. Still too easy? Use TOs instead of DOs. Still too easy? Don't use enhancements. Still too easy? Pick a team-centric AT and focus on team buff powers. A lot of those can't be used on the granting player without a different player applying it. Regardless, the game is as challenging as you choose to make it. So stop trying to say it needs to be more difficult.

That is getting back into the weeds again. Basically, if it takes you more than a half hour to clear a 5-minute mission, sure, you may have soloed it, but you are not an effective soloist. I don't know how other solo players feel, but taking a week to finish a mission as a single player isn't soloing except in the strictly technical sense, it is self-torture. That is likely how Frozen Burn feels too, but he would have to answer that. Now, back to the regularly scheduled tail chasing, I mean circular arguing, I mean OP discussion. (Not to cut you off, but we have been down too many rabbit holes on this thread and it really should have died after the first response.)

You can choose to hide the thread. It becomes effectively deleted as noone will be able to see the thread or post comments on it. Click the 3 dot icon at top, it should be there.

Check out "Idea to deal with Ouroboros portal congestion " on the same page, just a few entries down from this one.

Great. Now take out all your damage procs. Then take out every other IO you have slotted as well. (They give set bonuses.) Ready? Now slot SOs or lower instead. NOW tell me how well your controller handles +4/x8. Why? Because that is how this thread opens. Paraphrasing for space: you don't need IOs or incarnates to solo +4/x8. The OP is about changing how defense works and increasing the hit rate on top of weakening defense to make the game a challenge. So if anyone is going to say the game is easy as part of this thread? My challenge to you is to play the way the OP says you already can. Not a single IO of any kind slotted. Regardless of your AT or power choices. We can argue about how well power sets in any given AT works and how to solo effectively with the "correct" power choices and slotted enhancements all day. The thread is about changing the game to increase difficulty because without any set bonuses or procs, any character regardless of AT using any mix of powers without consideration to power effectiveness at soloing and without any invention origin enhancements which includes all sets in the game can solo at +4/x8. So let's get out of the weeds and address the OP. There are players that can find a way to make even the "worst" power sets work. Kudos to them. Not relevant to the thread. I disagree that any power set is inherently bad, though some are questionable as to their effectiveness, but that is a completely different discussion. This is all about how easy it is to solo the game at +4/x8 without incarnate powers (granted, that is true for some ATs/builds) or IOs, and the "need" to change the basic game to increase the difficulty. Oh yeah. Remove any slotted incarnate powers even if you don't intend to use them for the test. Three of them give passive level boosts (2 only work in incarnate content) and 2 of them at least give passive buffs to your character. And the OP says you don't need those to solo +4/x8.

And again, if the game is easy and any character with any power set can solo at +4/x8, then the statement that this won't happen if you have a good solo build wouldn't even exist. The fact you have to have a specific build with specific powers using specific enhancements is the only way to make some characters able to solo (effectively) renders this entire thread moot.

You are correct, sir! (Yeah, you didn't need me to say so, but I needed it as an opener.) Playing a character without the benefit of other players to help during a mission is indeed soloing! That said, there is a difference between a character that can make his/her way through a mission effectively and a character that takes an hour or longer to clear a 5 minute mission. I guess the statement should be "able to solo effectively" instead. In the example given (earlier in the post, please don't ask me to quote/link everything), having to burn every inspiration in your tray to clear a single spawn of 2 or 3 mobs over the course of however many minutes (I've had a single fight with 3 equal level mobs take me 5 minutes before deleting the character after the hour and a half slog it took to get through the small map on +0/x0 difficulty), then exit the mission, burn your (presumably limited if lower level) inf' on a new tray of inspirations, to go back to the mission and spend another however many minutes on the next group is by definition soloing. It is not however, reasonable for most people. And that hour and a half slog through a small map wasn't even the worst character I ever made. So the point of the game being easy and every character can solo +4/x8 even if they have to be full incarnate to do so is pretty laughable. So as I have said multiple times on this thread and will likely say again because the expectation that a player can solo anything in the game (s)he wants means everyone else can too keeps coming back up: no. This proposal is beyond bad. You want a challenge? Go challenge yourself. On Live they had MAN builds for people to have a difficult game. Then when MAN builds became common place and others were clearing missions with only pool powers, they came up with a new challenge. (I do not remember what the new challenge was. I was flabbergasted people were even doing the MAN challenge.) Again, please don't ask me to have to play according to others' standards. I'm not them. Many other players aren't either. (*Also, these comments are not directed at you specifically. Your comment just gave me a lead in to my thought. Sorry if it seems otherwise.)

Which brings us back on topic. (Thank you for that, by the way.) Having Null the Gull in the RWZ, the Hive, and the Abyss would let people make their group fly adjustments in zone without being locked out of the event because it filled up while they were dashing off to make a single change. It does not matter if you visited him in Pocket D at level 1 and chose to not be affected or if you went later or if you never went at all. With him in zone, you can adjust as needed at the time and location needed and it takes away literally nothing from anyone. At all. It doesn't bog down anything going on in zone. It doesn't prevent those who visited him in Pocket D from doing anything. All it does, is let people change a game flag in a location where they may want to change it for some reason.

Okay. Now about those zone MSRs people are trying to not get dropped out of....

Again, does anyone have a response that may be technical in nature other than you should know better about what can and can't affect you across who knows how many toons for each player? You know, something useful for the discussion? And there are instanced MSRs?! When and how did this happen? The zone MSRs are the only ones I know of. And that still does not address how to get back in zone for a Hamidon raid.

I have a few level 50s with incarnate powers, mostly low tier ones, that I still will not play above +2/x2. Because they insta-die if I play a higher difficulty. So, while YOU may able to pull that off, please don't assume everyone can.

When? My brute is already fully incarnate with all T4 powers and all my set IOs are slotted. And on some maps I won't use my judgement power because the added aggro from 5 other groups often kills me. Though I admit, that is only on the asteroid AE map. I could look up the recommended build for my brute and probably do better, but I want to have fun my way.

I think the problem was that they couldn't, hence Null exists. Having Null in a base is excessive, even to me. And I want to be able to put pretty much everything in my bases. And as Greycat pointed out, there are times when a player wants to be able to change between being affected and not being affected dependent on the task/activity. Making things like whether group fly affects your characters or not an account wide setting would be fine for players like me. For players that need to shift between states though, there is still a need for Null access in the RWZ, Hive, and Abyss. All that is being asked is for the ability to change as needed in the zones where it actually matters.

You know, I've soloed GMs before all that too. Of course, they were all grey because I was significantly higher level than them. Then they made GMs levelless so they were effectively always your level plus their GM shifts and purple. Ah, the good ole days. In the end, I have to say, congrats to you for doing what others said could not be done. Depending on power choices and enhancement choices, a character can excel (or fail) in ways others did not think was possible. I still think the proposed changes in this topic are beyond bad. I want to play my characters with my power choices and my enhancement choices in my play style without having look up the "right" way to make the character. If I screw up and the character can't do anything? Okay. Delete character and start over. If I don't make often silly mistakes with the character and it can solo the game's regular content? Great! I'm viable. If I stumble on SUPER BUILD OF ULTIMATE DOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!, I'm gonna go fight the things my other characters can't and be happy I figured out the super secret method I've heard rumors of. So again, please don't force me to make characters according to others' expectations. I want to have fun.

Discuss away! I sommtimes try to break up some conversations for fear they may be devolving into a possible argument. Sorry.

1) Except I never know thhre is an MSR planned until I enter the zone and face-plant into one forming. 2) If you are proceeding directly to league zone for league activity, then no, you don't really have time without the high likelihood of being locked out. 4) The indicator of being affected is not an indicator. It is an affect. At which point the player goes "Oh crap. Group Fly affects me." An indicator would be a quick view icon that says yes or no even without having to be affected.

I was bugged then. Go figure. Happens a lot. Anyway, since the convo seems to just be the 3 of us now, and 2 of us say it is a good idea and the third says he is not opposed, I think we are all in agreement this is a good idea! Yay for ... .... whatever you call a forum decision! 🤣

Again, did not know that bit, Glacier. Does it really add junk to Null's coding if he is simply being duplicated though? His code doesn't change, just the instances where he is/the code is accessible.

Or... and here's a wild thought... when we get to the RWZ or Hive/Abyss, there is a Null right there was can ask! Yay! 😆

Sorry, Grey'. I gotta disagree. Or I was bugged. One or the other. During a Hami' league, I was moved off the group fly player's team and was stilla ffected.