Voltak

_____________________________________________________ Dark Control has everything but a sleep and the equivalent to Earthquake or Ice Slick. I would also place Dark control ahead of Mind. Not only does the set of control shine as a whole package but the To Hit debuffs are just too good. Let me give you an idea -- When you hit Gather Shadows (assuming you took Dark Assault, the secondary, as well) your Shadow Field will be doing 36% to hit debuffs and up to ALL the critters the field touched, the debuff lasts over 42 seconds (after enhancements). Add to Shadow Field the massive AoE fear has a solid 23% to hit debuff, no other fear in the game has this. So , they might want to fight back after fear if you attack them but with a significant disadvantage. With Clarion Radial as incarnate , which I also have, Shadow Field will debuff critters chances to hit you by more than 50%, that is better than a standard Hurricane by Storm. Fearsome Stare then becomes a much stronger debuff and with both of them on the critters, you just tossed upon them an 80% to hit debuff combo. Again, this is with Gather Shadows and Clarion Radial. The Fear recharges relatively fast. Dark has an incredibly useful big area stun that does decent dmg , especially proc'd out. You can stun them and they will not be able to fight back at all. It recharges relatively fast so you can have it ready for each mob group that you move to. Dark has the best animation for a confuse, but it is called Possession. That Shadow Field above can be, arguably, the games best AoE hold for Dominators. The area is huge and the debuff is massive and it is practically auto-hit. Dark has 3 pets that help control critters as well. Their powers also debuff the chances to hit of the enemies. If you even want to solo AVs on a regular basis, Dark control will probably be better than any other Primary for Dominators. Go with Dark/Dark Dark assault also has their version of power boost. It is called Gather Shadows, as was mentioned above. ________________________________________________ Earth control is as much or more control than Mind, this is especially true when talking about hard controls for crowds, and with semi hard controls ( I explain below). Earth has an awesome hard control available with relatively short amount of recharge -- the good area AoE stun, a nice hard control with a LONG duration of a stun, and, I say again, with a relatively short recharge, definitely shorter than any of Mind's AoE HARD controls. You can hit them, whatever, they won't hit you back. It has a decent AoE hard control in the form of hold. This is standard in all sets. It has a very neat form of ( very close to hard control) critter disabler in the power "Earthquake" and this power, or, to be more precise, similar power to this one is only available to Ice, Fire, and Earth, yet only Ice and Earth has Knockdown by default, Fire needs an IO to make that a knockdown. While they are bouncing , they are not fighting back so you can just attack at will and it will provide with a decent amount of mitigation. Earth also has a sleep which is a nice emergency button in case your other controls are on recharge but you need to immediately deal with an incoming group of mobs, so you sleep them then continue to work on the other ones you were already dealing with. Earth's pet is perhaps the pet that hits the hardest by itself, Dark's pet (dark Beast) being right behind or right by it. (not tested this yet but Dark's pet hits very decently) Earth's slow patch is also a nice form of soft control and a tremendous defense debuffer, all of Earth's powers, or most of Earth's powers are defense debuffers

Yes, and I should have been more specific so I will go edit the post immediately At 50+. my focus was more about AVs at +4 , and without to hit debuffs present. Since my emphasis was 1) the permanent hold issue and 2) the benefits of to hit debuffs

Illusion/Dark Controller That's what I was referring to in the parts where I talked about to hit debuffs When to hit debuffs are there, you get benefit plenty from them so that you don't need to be at soft cap Otherwise, without those to hit debuffs, most likely you will be at soft cap, and my focus was on +4 AVs. Cool ?

Sounds like a plan All this stuff is more valuable than spreadsheets

Makes sense. I am all for that Also, let's remember that may be wrong and actually being wrong is two different things. If you want to help me out, we can grab a tank and my dark / dark dom. I can lay the debuffs down and with power analyzer, we can get some nice screen shots of the debuff totals What do you say ? you into this ?

But more than relying on Mids, I rely more on experience. I can certainly say to hit debuffs with my Dark/Dark Dom is great to use. Then, again, Carnifax, remember that on top of all of that Clarion Radial, which I used to solo Master of ITF with no insps, that magnifies the debuffs even more. At that point it rivals the support class of defenders and corruptors to hit debuffs So, when you first brought up the issue of Gloom, you did not recall that it's both, primaries and secondary. Both apply and both stack. Fearsome stare and Shadow field is a great combo then add the rest on top of it. Even the pets are stacking to hit debuffs

The bottom line is after adding everything, after all that stuff stacking on the AV... It is certainly a great set of instruments to use , and no one is soloing AVs, in the case of AVs at lvl 50+, with difficulty settings of +4, unless they are IO'd and with defenses at soft cap, or without having To Hit debuffs. I am cap, so all those to hit debuffs are great additions. We should not take anything away from them. They are great vs those AVs . I say from experience 🙂

With gather shadows and with Clarion radial

EDITED ** Of course I am being realistic. Realistic is all I have become after doing this over and over. Shadow field 57.26%. to hit debuff

Those numbers are taken from Mids. DARK CONTROL FOR DOMINATORS - NOT DARK AFFINITY NOT DARK MIASMA Also, please remember it is not PB exactly. It is Gather Shadows. I provided numbers without activating Gather Shadows as well as after activating GS. So the numbers with Gather shadows, NOT PB ( I say that GS is the Dominator version of PB). I hope this clarifies. The numbers are greatly enhanced Shadow Field becomes 39.25% to hit debuff for 45 seconds Fearsome Stare become 19.63% for 50 secs Again When you add Clarion Radial (like I used in Solo ITF 54x8 no insps). that all changes Shadow Field becomes 57.26% to hit debuff Fearsome stare becomes 28.63% to hit debuffNow add only those two together, just those two above, and you have , before resists, about 86% to hit debuff. Without adding the other to hit debuffs from any other power.

Edited the post above ***

Practicing to do this over and over has taken me into a journey of learning 1. To hit debuffs are all stacking 2. Dark's control instruments to debuff are stronger than dark assault. So for example, Shadow Field - 22. 5 %. to hit debuff for 45 seconds 3. Fearsome stare is 11.25 % for 50 seconds 4. Dark's pet stacks the to hit debuffs as well, the immobile from Wolf is 7.53% , the Haunts are 7.53% 5.. Everything above stacks. Then you forgot the other fact I mentioned - with Dark's assault version of Power Boost (known as Gather Shadows). Gather Shadow for me has a down time of 14 seconds, it is 10 seconds long in duration but every power I activate during gather shadows gets the boost for the entirety of the duration , so the debuffs are stronger for the full length of duration if I activate them when gather shadows is up. And I do this every time. The numbers are greatly enhanced Shadow Field becomes 39.25% to hit debuff Fearsome Stare become 19.63% When you add Clarion Radial (like I used in Solo ITF 54x8 no insps). that all changes Shadow Field becomes 57.26% to hit debuff Fearsome stare becomes 28.63% to hit debuff Now add only those two together, just those two above, and you have , before resists, about 86% to hit debuff. Without adding the other to hit debuffs from any other power. Bottom line -- what I stated stands -- The to hit debuffs are a great set of instruments to solo AVs with. Like I said in another thread about Dominators -- When it comes to soloing AVs, Dark/Dark dominator outshines all other Dominators

As someone who loves to solo AVs and has done it many times with a range of toons, I want to second most of what Carnifax stated very well. First, an appreciation for Carnifax's input. Ok, to appreciate how difficult it is to permanently hold an AV, players need to know that even for a perma Domination dominator, that task is nigh impossible to do solo, the only proven so far in actual game testing to permanently hold an AV, especially a lvl +4 , is a Mind dominator, and that is because Mind's single hold is extremely fast , but not only because of this, but also because in order to get the AV SAFELY to a state where you can begin to SAFELY stack the holds, mind dominators have other tools such as confuse and sleep, mostly confuse. Furthermore, only on paper is it possible to break the AV's hold protection by stacking a total of 54 Mags or even 57. In practice, you are not going to see that. Why? Because of the speeds at which an AV is shedding off those mags. Again, testing has confirmed that reaching magnitude 60 and higher will help to permanently hold the AV because of how fast the dips in mags happen. There is a big drawback to this --- the mind dom, if he wishes to keep the AV held, that is all he can do , keep casting the hold as quickly as it charges up. That in turns hinders your ability to do anything else, so you won't kill it alone. We conducted tests, and I have tested extensively The moment a mind dominator tries to cast an attack chain vs a lvl 54 AV, the more likely that AV will begin to SHED OFF those magnitudes that you worked so hard to stack up. In fact, I can wage any influence that once you start to try to deliver an attack chain to kill it, the AV will break free since you will lose that MAG before you get it back up to the requirement if you persist on attacking. Why I say this? Because I seen it over and over in tests. The higher the lvl of the AV in relation to you, the faster the AV sheds off those mags. The painful truth is that while you stack the mags in quantities of +3, an AV +4 will shed them off in quantities of +6 or +9 while you embark on delivering your attack chain to kill it. You see where I am going with this ? You are going to lose the race. An even number AV you can permanently hold much more easy, but again, your attack chain must have the hold there quickly , and by that time you are losing DPS. If you are a controller, the race is lost before you even begin. My Dark Dominator relies on to hit debuffs because I know I cannot permanently hold the AV, not if I also want to unleash an attack chain to overcome the regen and be able to kill it. This is the only point where I will not support what Carnifax said. To hit debuffs are indeed a useful tool when soloing AVs. My dark/dark dominator relies on that as well as high def range and other tools to kill them before they kill me. Yes, they do get resisted but they are not immune and those to hit debuffs stack and stack. And with power boost (gather shadows, in case of Doms) they get amplified, and with Clarion radial, they get amplified even more. But.. alas, this is Dominator land, NOT controller A controller cannot do this. A controller does not have the power to stack magnitudes in the way a Dominator can and only one Dominator can do this in practice since you need to SAFELY be able to stack those holds, and no dominator outside of mind and dark has a confuse that recharges very fast. Plant's confuse takes too long to recharge to be able to first confuse the AV for a long time and then work on stacking the holds. Dark and Mind are the only ones who can proceed with safety in case of Dominators, and controllers... well, controllers need their secondaries to seek safety while they stack the holds but we go back to what I said earlier --> controllers do not have the power to achieve that like dominators can. If anyone tells you on the forums that they , as a controller , can permanently hold an AV, ask for the video or ask them to take you with them so you can watch. Otherwise, don't believe it. On a similar note, anyone who tells you that they permanently held an AV+4 AND they were able to launch an attack to kill it , even if they are dominator, ask them for the video or ask them to let you witness or it did not happen at all That's my advice. Here's one example of an AV lvl 54 vs a solo Dominator. Not just any AV, this is a Carnies AV, who has pay defenses so even Mind doms are in hot water here. I killed the AV while the Lores were on cool down so it's not the lore who actually got the kill.

Yes, please.

I want to second that Night Widows... or, to be more precise, widow's melee attacks, are too expensive. I have pleaded for Devs to reduce this in the past. I am giving up on them. But that's not the only problem. Outside of Ageless, Fortunatas ( I call them machine guns since their rate of fire is high ) they suffer too especially when all toggles are up and running, but not nearly as much as a night widow build. She also runs Cardiac for the incarnate alpha. That solves my endurance issues. If you see the video I posted of my Fortunata ( who solo'd the ITF no insps) she runs Victory Rush, and that always helps.

Thank you as well. In the post just above this one, I pointed out some things which were not known earlier concerning the testing conditions the OP was working with. Now that he revealed these, that makes a big difference

That is going to impact your results time a lot. For pylon testing Cold Epic with the -res proc seems to be the way to go since the increased in dmg output is too important . So if you do pylon testing with soul, that's cool, just keep in mind it will not be the optimal set up, however if you do manage to herd a mob over to you, keep them permanently stunned around ya, then use soul master, that would be very cool too 🙂. I was not aware you were also doing pylon testing without T4 incarnates. That also makes a significant difference For testing you want musculature and hybrid assault Test server is best place since you can switch to both sides of hybrid assault there In any case, don't be disappointed, champ. You are doing testing with far less than optimal conditions. Because of that, you are doing relatively well, my brother.

The most powerful Fortunatas are those that fly. The pros are vastly in favor of flying. No defenses in the game beats range. On the ground you will find nothing but piranhas in the ITF Widows already have insane defenses, add flying to ice it.

Yes, you VEATS, at least Fortunatas, are able to do this

Thanks a lot for this. No need for insults.

Concerning pylon testing your claim that Dark Assault is mediocre damage-wise, I rebutted above Go read and you will see you are still wrong. You, Mezmera, and let me say I have no beef with the other posters here, but you, Mezmera, not only do you resort to personal insults ( like saying I suffer from some Mental disorder, which you bet I will report since that is 1. uncalled for 2. clear violation of policy here on the forums. 3. illustrates what kind of person you are) But you come here to this thread to make statements like the ones you have made in a thread about pylon testing (which is one way to measure up ST DMG) you come to the thread making claims when you have ZERO first hand experience in the matter AND You did not know, at the time you made the statement of any results that prove that Dark Assault is mediocre in ST dmg. Not only do you talk without knowing but you were also wrong, and worse, you still don't see what you are doing, which according to what has already been observed you have done and will probably continue to do -- talk and make statements about things you have no solid knowledge about certainly not any first hand experience. But you think it is others who are suffering from some mental disorder Right...

Two Dark players I know of in testing used Cold epic, with a - resist proc as well. Cold epic Makes a big difference in pylon testing. Even the Dark/Fire mentioned above used it. Also the +dmg ATO proc placed in Midnight Grasp makes a big difference The more that proc activates the greater the dmg buff you will receive and they do stack

First, let me address the ITF issue -> 1. You stated another Dominator successfully did the Master of ITF challenge. Can this be verified? Link? I would like to check it out. If it cannot be verified, and if this was done after I did mine, then my statement still holds. 2. The ITF I did was under the following difficulty settings 1. No inspirations allowed (they were disabled) and this is beyond "Master of settings". You can actually do the Master of ITF with inspirations enabled, this is a fact, but I did my run with an ADDITIONAL difficulty setting, which is a big deal in regards to degree of difficulty. 2. NO temps allowed (disabled ), no amplifiers used 3. No deaths 4. 54 x 8 notoriety. Thus my claim still stands -- I am the first person who has VERIFIABLY done the ITF under THOSE SETTINGS and successfully with a Dominator My achievement can be verified and it's posted for anyone to verify it themselves. This is the CRUCIAL factor here. __________________________________________________________ Now on to the Pylon testing Please remember a significant different between the other testing and the testing posted above -- In the testing done above for Dark assault, the PRIMARY set WAS NOT USED at all. This is an important factor Had the primary been used the pylon testing time would be different and certainly faster since once you release the 3 pets there's additional DPS involved. The other even more pertinent fact that still upholds dark as NOT mediocre is that there are ELEVEN ( 11 ) assault sets. If WITHOUT using primary powers pylon testing did show ( and I said above in this same thread that FIRE I have already seen beat Dark in pylon testing ) Even if Energy and Fire did beat Dark WITHOUT using primary , then keep in mind that STILL DOES NOT make Dark mediocre. That is not the middle of the pack since it would mean that OUT OF ELEVEN assault sets, ONLY two would be ahead of Dark assault. That IS NOT MIDDLE ground at all , that is not mediocre. When Mezmera made the claim that Dark was mediocre DAMAGE-wise, Mezmera said that WITHOUT knowing any other pylon testing time for none of the assault sets. That is what I had issue with -- Making a claim without any first hand experience, or making a claim without knowing results of any assault sets. Still, according to the information available , there is no justification for calling Dark Assault a mediocre set, NOT EVEN damage-wise. If it is established using ONLY secondary set without the primary that Dark is in 3rd place, that is NOT mediocre at all. That would be top 3 out of 11 sets. That is not the middle at all So, my statement stands and it is not incorrect Dark assault is NOT in any way a mediocre set, not even damage-wise. Can we agree on that? Handhsake ?

If I may respectfully address you on this -->. WHen I first wrote my comment, I did so to say that Dark Assault's dmg is not mediocre. Mezmera claimed that Dark's assault dmg is mediocre, but Mezmera has not done any tests This thread was made by the OP and it was directly about Pylon testing with Dark assault. I presented information about pylon testing with dark assault With the results obtained, there are no grounds for me to say the Dark assault is mediocre I never made the claim that Dark assault is the best. Are you very clear on this? I don't think you want to erect a straw man. I really don't think that's your intention, but it is important to know what I am NOT saying as much as it is important to know what I am saying. I respectfully have to say that Mezmera made a claim about dark assault being mediocre but did so without any corroborating material nor tests in this thread about pylon testing with dark assault, so no solid basis for that claim. I also stated that pylon results do not depend solely on getting info from Mids. What you get from Mids will not produce a pylon test result. The whole build matters, the animation times for each of the powers you use during the test, all that matters. Anyone's testing time will change after making changes to build, sequence of the powers to use (chain) and so on, wether they use their primaries in conjunction with their secondaries, how many procs you fit in, and so on. In the end, nothing but testing. Wether something has or does not have popularity for doing something, that's not evidence for proving wether the set is mediocre or not in dmg. I remember when I posted my fight vs a Lvl 54 AV solo and I killed the AV while the Lore pets were on cool down. Another poster came and said that he did not know that Dark had enough ST dmg to take down an AV lvl 54 and after watching my video he did say he needed to adjust what his idea was of Dark assault. Can we agree on that ?

Again, I fail to see why this is hard for you to understand, so allow me explain it another way. No one said "no one has done this before me". You are erecting a strawman using a claim nobody made. I made the claim that my Dominator is the first Dominator to verifiably solo the Master ITF challenge with inspirations DISabled, at a notoriety setting of 54 x8 That is different. That claim is made because there is no evidence that someone else has done it before I did it. I said VERIFIABLY, no one has verifiably done this before me. This is different than saying "No one has done it before me". TO say that no one has verifiably done this before me... this is what's called a "negative claim". So now we move to proving a negative. This is simple, all we have to do is look at the evidence of absence. After careful searching the internet, even old forums, there is no evidence, no corroborating material that anyone has verifiably done what I did. This is a logical method of proving a negative claim. From your own source -- "... evidence of absence (is) a typical method to fulfill the burden of proof for a negative claim" Let me make it clear --> I am NOT presenting absence of evidence, which means that no research has been done. You are making an assumption if you think I did not search for this. More importantly, I am claiming evidence of absence, I have done the research, as I said. After doing the research the result was that there is no evidence that anyone else has done this before I did it. Has anyone else verifiably done what I did? Is there evidence anyone else has? Is there an evidence of absence upon which I draw the conclusion? There is indeed. Anyone else is welcome to do the research as well since the instruments to do so are the same I used and available to all. I really don't know why you are taking an issue with me. This thread is about pylon times and dark assault.