Voltak

Here you make another claim that I think you cannot prove, and you have zero first hand experience to back up your claim. If you did not see the data above, I will post it here again . Now, would you be so kind as to present the evidence to back up your claim? Compare your data with the data below, then we can know the truth. Agree? This was a result posted in the pylon thread Oh, and it is important to point out before you read the rest of the data below , that *** This was just with the secondary. *** —> No primary power used like the pets. I say again only for emphasis —> No primary power used NO PETS

You are talking outside of the subject matter being addressed in my discussion with Oedi, to which you entered that specific discussion and made a claim that is not proven to be true , and you made the claim when you can't do this and you have no experience doing it first hand.

I proved irrefutably that the subject matter Ode and I were addressing was killing AV and comparing sets. I also addressed the issue that some claims were being made by players who have no experience , no first hand experience or no first hand knowledge, or simply can't do it, about doing this, yet make claims on the subject matter.

Additionally, I am not coming to the forums to claim that in the subject or the task of killing an AV or AVs that energy is better than Dark assault in terms of dmg. I don't have the evidence to back that claim at all I do have the evidence of dark assault killing AVs and I have evidence of DARK ASSAULT ONLY ( NO primary used) killing the pylon. I presented the data above, and you are welcome to read it. If you want to claim that energy is better than dark to kill an AV in terms of dmg, SHOW the evidence (talk is cheap). Or you can post pylons times USING ONLY energy assault secondary and not your primary at all. Again, data or evidence = supreme. Present either of those and then I could believe in any claim being made on this specific issue.

I will present the evidence that the issue Oedipus_tex and I are or were discussing in the few posts was this statement made by him, this issue specifically “Clearly we disagree, probably because we value the ability to stack Confusion on AVs differently. So I will make the case that if you specifically care about soloing AVs Mind ranks higher.” So the issue I was addressing, the issue we proceeded to discuss was this statement. I responded with “Not even and I will change my mind when evidence is presented, visual evidence, not theories, that Mind will out perform Dark when it comes to soloing AVs. Is there a Mind Dominator who may present hard evidence of this? So unless there is actual evidence for this, I will say the claim is a no go. I know a few Mind Dominators who will not claim that Mind outperforms Dark in soloing AVs. “ Then Oedipus responded with “Altho I'm not a big lover of Mind Control, the glass half full part of me has me curious whether a Mind/Dark build could potentially deal enough damage to be an AV soloist similar to the Dark/Dark builds you've posted. Mind/Dark should be able to proc out Dominate for significant damage, and if it gets into a dangerous spot, can hit Hypnosis to halt the fight. At least on paper, Mind's single target damage chain is great” The evidence is clear and unequivocal — the issue being discussed by him and me in the last few posts is killing AVs and comparing the two sets to do that. If that is not enough — YOU proceeded to make a statement addressing this very same subject matter “I have a Mind/Dark. To grind hard into the AV's you need high DPS and/or lots of pets. Dark Assault has more survivability in it thanks to the heal but in terms of DPS is far outclassed by lots of assaults. If you can manage your survivability in other ways you're better off with a more damaging assault. Dark control is the better ST damage source of the controls with the pets it has plus the -to hit that goes along with its control aspect. “ So, it is clear, and I am correct - the subject matter being discussed is killing AVs and comparing one set with another I proceeded to clear up or debunk a few claims being made on this subject matter specifically -> Claims made by players who never done this , who cannot back up claims being made, or so far can’t do this task of soloing AVs, and therefore don’t know, or don’t posses a first hand knowledge or experience about what really works, and what does not work, when it comes to this task.

The issue here , the subject matter here is killing AVs, and the subject matter(s) that I am specifically addressing is what works, especially dark control or dark assault or dark/dark. I was addressing the false claim made by someone who does not know what they are talking about specifically to this subject. Also addressing that people who can't do it are coming here to claim what works or does not work or what is better or what is worse. I presented the facts and I have presented the evidence. If anyone wants to make a claim on this issue, the evidence should be there to back it up. The rest of the things you said are not relevant to this discussion and it sounds like you are attacking me, and that is against the forum rules. Be careful.

As someone who has done lots of AVs solo, I can say that you don't need lots of pets. The Clamor AV challenge is a great benchmark. Try doing that with no temps, no P2W, no summons, and only using small inspirations. You will appreciate the difficulty a lot more. Dark assault is not only good for killing AVs for the heals alone. That's just not true You don't kill AVs with heals. It has very good dmg to overcome AVs. The evidence is there that Dark can take down AVs and do it very well. We have to be careful making unproven claims or make claims when we don't know FOR SURE about the specific subject - soloing AVs with a dominator or a dark assault or dark/dark dom. Lots of theories floating around about how to do do this. People making claims that they then cannot backup. The players who have actually done this, and done it lots of times know a bit more about what you need or don't. THen you have players who can't do it and then come to the forums and talk about what is needed or not. Let me present the hard facts so there's no confusion --> Dark assault has enough dmg to take down AVs , it has enough dmg to make good pylon times. More important than dmg when when it comes to soloing AVs, especially AVs that hit hard or are 53 or 54, more important is utility or survival. You do 0 DPS dead. This is where Dark outshines them all. The to hit debuffs stacking from the secondary, and if you have dark primary, that goes a longer way. This was a result posted in the pylon thread Oh, and it is important to point out before you read the rest of the data below , that *** This was just with the secondary. No primary power used like the pets. The instant snipe feels pretty much like a Stalker AS if you use it this way. ***

Of course I agree with you on a lot of things here. And as you may understand, I will keep my view as "until proven that it can do so, Mind control is not in the same league as Dark control for killing AVs". THis is even more important as the AVs in question are above lvl 50, or, as I make the case, a lvl 25 AV like Clamor who will demolish your defenses. So, about your statement about how much pets matter -> the higher the AV is above you in levels, the more they matter. When the AV is +3 or +4 this matters a lot. To battle the lvl 54s AV I have to use immobs, since for some reason , they run a lot more than lower levels ( funny, I think) I have a lot more videos coming. From my tests and my experience, it's not Dark assault that has to catch up to any other set in game. It is the other sets that have to catch up to dark assault because the fact of the matter is that dmg alone is not the key when facing harder and harder content, but utility becomes very significant. Like other games of this sort - > you only need to find that spot where you do just enough dmg to get the kill and you need enough utility for the other factors to fall in place to get the job done as you do harder content.

Not even and I will change my mind when evidence is presented, visual evidence, not theories, that Mind will out perform Dark when it comes to soloing AVs. Is there a Mind Dominator who may present hard evidence of this? So unless there is actual evidence for this, I will say the claim is a no go. I know a few Mind Dominators who will not claim that Mind outperforms Dark in soloing AVs.

EDITED -- I noticed a few things that need attention *** Hello On the build, Dark Blast is an important power. DPA standards - Dark Blast ranks very well among all dark assault powers. Slot it to reflect that. That would be my suggestion Another thing. You have Living Shadows but no Shadow Field ? Shadow Field is important and very beneficial I cannot give you a green light on this build without Shadow Field. Eventually, as you play more and more, you will develop a feel for what else you may want to tweak. I would not slot hasten with 3 IOs, Just slot two, and if you want boost the two you already have. 3 recharge IO's in hasten is something I feel you don't need to do most of the time. Drop maneuvers. You will get more use by taking Stealth (invisible ) When you attack only SOME of your defense is suppressed; you still keep a decent amount that helps. Stealth will be way more useful to you in the vast majority of content. If you can find a way to get that power earlier so you use it when you exempt down, even better

If you want an AV killer that does so with more potential safety than other Dominators, go Dark/Dark. If later on, as you get better, you want to do more challenging stuff, go dark/dark. If you like using pets, go dark/dark. If you want to include confuse, fears, stuns, aoe holds, 3 pets, in one control set, only dark has that. By the way the Stun in Dark is a mega proc bomb if you want to use it as such Don't slot the heal in dark for dmg, only heal. You will get better dmg in other assault powers in dark assault. Most of all, get experience with the set, play it and play it a lot. The best builds, for me, come when you have an end goal, and you work your way backwards of how you going to achieve it, those enabling to finalize a build to give you exactly what you want and none or minimal of what you don't want or don't need. Those builds only come via experience and skills at playing your combo.

Let the film do all the talking here. I have nothing more to add beside the video 🙂

I have yet to see evidence that proves this claim that we can permanently hold or confuse any AV of equal level or above. I am someone with vast experience tackling AVs with controllers or dominators. None of the theories I read on the forums have proven true in practice. PERMA hold has not been proven that I know of. Plenty of theories are out there. I am not looking for a debate nor do I mean this to disrespect anyone. I am looking for evidence, visual evidence, that this claim is true.

Very nice ! I am glad and enjoy the Dom 🙂

Question for the original poster -- What do you want to do ? The easiest content of the game, just kill standard mobs in teams with others? Solo easy as cake stuff? I ask because the builds all depend on what you are doing, also depends on what sets you want to fit for IOs, and what numbers you want to shoot for, and it also depends on what tactics you want to employ to get achieve your objectives. Dark Control has no bad powers, I have THREE different builds for my dark/dark dom, and two of those builds don't take fearsome stare, because I just can't fit it or it is redundant in what I am trying to do. Only one build has living shadows, the other two has the single target immob, and that is only to stop AV runners. Only one build has haunt. My suggestion to the poster is to play the dominator, preferably to level it up and know the set if it is the first time he plays a dark dominator. Dark is different than all or most sets. It has perhaps the most versatile set of instruments. Which ones and how and when you use them ... all that learning takes practice. My dom has undergone 8 changes since I made one before the game shut down in the live days many years ago. I started playing dark since the very moment it was released back in Live, on the TEST server Learning for me continues, especially as I seek harder and harder challenges, and that means that builds will evolve as well.

Using my 3rd build -- No temps, no RED inspirations, no P2W, no shivans, no vendor summons, and AV Killed while Lore pets are on cool down.

No temps, no RED inspirations, no P2W, no shivas, no vendor summons, and AV Killed while Lore pets are on cool down, thus proving there is enough dmg to overcome a Lvl 54 AV while no Lores are on. Also, this is without degen interface. If degen is used the dmg is even more.

No temp powers, no P2W, no vendor summons, NO Psy Mastery. Lvl 54 ArchVillain proved to be overwhelming (in dmg) vs a Dom with no Psy resists nor Psy defense of any sort, especially when trying to keep inspirations use down to a minimum. But I will keep trying and I will post if and when successful. Lvl 54 Carnies ordinary mobs are not a problem at all, survival is not your issue. The phasing of illusionists eats up your time, and you must keep an eye on Ring Mistresses at all times since even only a Boss hits with extremely strong damage on what appears to be higher accurate attacks. I have videos on Lvl 54s x 8 Carnies which I will share in the future.

Yes, that is 100% correct and that is why I consider it a benefit. They are consistent. They don't do 1 or 2 hits then run off to another target. They focus on the target thus enabling higher dmg since it's not split off. That may also become beneficial if you are in 1 vs 1 situation and there are many other critters around.

Mass Confusion takes way too long to recharge Dark does not have that problem. Every new group of mobs, dark has powers to lockdown the whole group or most of it to the point they can't fight back at all. And if most of the mob is not locked down, because of miss or placement, it can fear the others and significantly debuff the to hit ability of the enemy. I have gather shadows ready for every encounter so a power boosted fear means the to hit debuff is even stronger. At lvl 45+ I have clarion radial and that makes the to hit debuff ridiculously strong when mixed with gather shadows. They hardly ever can manage to hit back at all. Haunt has a taunt aura thus helping even more. I want a power to disable the whole group to the point where they can't fight back, and I want that at every point where I get a new group of mobs. Tactics change with Cimerorans since they have break free, in that case the to hit debuff is now gold. I have that in Dark, earth, and so on except Mind because of the long recharges. All this without mentioning until now that no other control set has Shadow Field or something like it. Even after the hold is over, the strong to hit debuff from that power, unlike any of the other Dark powers in terms of strength, provides a significant mitigation or protection from dmg. That debuff is then made greater by gather shadows or clarion radial. Anything touched by Shadow Field ( it does not even need to hold the critter) is strongly debuffed.

You left out one of the best or the best AoE hold in the game for Dark as far as AoE ON PURPOSE, I see, and I hear you, so instead of 2 , it is 3 things. Yes, every control sets has them but Shadow field's very significant to hit debuff is something that last after the hold is over. You don't get that from other sets and that is a very important way of mitigating. So for Dark it is 1. Fearsome stare, stops mobs in their tracks, or preemptively maybe cast on mobs too close but not yet agro'd but to prevent they do something against you as long as they still not getting hit Every encounter and maybe even twice in same encounter 2. Heart of Darkness , huge PbAoE Stun EVERY encounter and maybe even twice in same 3. Shadow Field and it's huge to hit debuff. On top of all that AoE to hit debuffs Also *** Haunt has a taunt auro to them every time you summon them *** and that is one form of control So to open groups , to open contact with mobs, in a way that prevents them from fighting , or prevents them from fighting with fluidity , Dark, Earth, have the most tools to open groups in that category, with earth beating them all ( earthquake is so good).

Ah, so you do admit I am a better AV killer than you. You also admitting you won't be able to do the ITF under the same circumstances as me? Can you survive an AV lvl 53 or 54 ? Doing the ITF is not equating me to a stalker. Given the circumstances, I will adjust my tactics, as all intelligent and skilled players should be able to do. I never claimed every group in an ITF. You are putting words into my mouth in order for you to try to make me look bad. Your whole intent since your first post as a response to me was done with your intent to try to make me look bad. Why ? Why the hate? The ITF is not just about the AVs, you know that pretty well, even if you die so much. Watch my video vs the Praetorian AV. Can you survive him and kill him ? I do the mission objectives, no need to do extra. If the mission objective included killing x amount or killing all AND an AV or two at the end, I will do it successfully. I can't say the same about you, nor can you say it. If I wanted to farm, I do a farm with a farmer. You brought two builds , one build on one occasion of the ITF and died. You brought your second stealth build and still died. We might run in the same circle but you are the one who comes here to attack me or what I do. No one in our circle attacks me. They all respect me as a player, skill and build wise. And I respect them and I don't attack them at all, ever. The subject matter in this thread was never me. You have something personal against me. I never started to attack you at all. You made it about me or what I do . This was a discussion about the power set comparison.

I had no expectations about you. I just saw you died more than I can count from memory. That's all I said. I never said anything about me expecting you to be alive. I was not your only team mate. You dying is ultimately your fault. I did walk in to the team and the mission with the intelligent approach that I am my own last line of defense and no one else will be my last line of defense. Other doms survived, not just me. I been on two runs with you on your doms and my dom, both times you died. One you played with your none stealth build. The second time you played on your stealth build, and both times you died too many times. I just played with better tactics and strategies. I did not stealth solo and only used confuse so I was never going to say that. You keep saying that but it's not true at all . You need to think that, IMO, since if you don't you see how your idea in this discussion just dies. I have stated the facts that I came out of stealth at times when it was smart to do so. You on the ground with you face down so I know you can't see much. Check out my fights vs LVL 54s AVs and LVL 53 AVs, out of stealth if you question my skills or my build. Also do Clamor at lvl 25 with your "best character". THen show me your videos, please, or just bring me along and I will record them for you. Talk is cheap.

Be blown out by a lvl 25 encounter , Tex Against arguably the toughest AV to face as a Dominator especially speaking with relativity. See the video as to why I consider this the toughest challenge a dominator can face in terms of AVs soloing.