Riverdusk

Another option for START vendor is a good idea that has been brought up before (to lower xp, not raise it more). You could add in a one half (50%) xp option to START and it'd cancel out the double xp of the event, no? Been wanting that option regardless for when I do want to just level slower while doing story arcs. I have a "No XP" macro set up, but it'd be nice not to have to fiddle with it as much. I do think double xp weekends should be fairly rare regardless, otherwise they are no longer an 'event'.

Shield is top tier....once you get your defense with it to softcaps (45+). It also has very good DDR (especially if you double stack active defense), so your defense tends to stay there, even through defense debuffs. It also has a moderate amount of resistances (typically 30-60% to most everything on my scrappers). I've played shield on a scrapper plenty and once I get the build done or even mostly done, it didn't feel squishy at all, and that's with a scrapper. A tank should have much better numbers and better DDR. However, before you get some good IO sets and get that defense where it needs to be, I can see it feeling squishy. Don't see that as much different than any other defense set though, except maybe super reflexes where you can cap defense very early. As to endurance there are a lot of ways to fix that issue. The usual IO's (miracle, numina, panacea, performance shifter), end reduction slotting, SG base buff +recovery, epic pool +recovery powers, START temp powers, +end accolades, incarnates, etc. Some of those are temps and some come late, but the trick is to use the temps early, and then you can drop the temps once you get the end powers. One idea is to try it with dark melee, it synergizes very well and that combo is a bit of a known classic.

Right when I'm trying to run my "do everything while leveling up" character, hah. That's okay, I'll just have to be even quicker on my "No xp" macro. 😁 All great streamers there by the way, check em out!

Controller's don't benefit from pets in "defensive follow" since they don't get bodyguard, so overall I agree with the suggestion. I probably won't even have "defensive" as a button or macro I'll ever use on my controller pets unless they ever give controllers some version of Bodyguard. Much more likely I'll just be using attack, aggressive follow and passive follow, with occasional 'goto', or 'stay', thrown in there. Having defensive as the default I agree wouldn't be my first choice either. In the end not a big deal to me and it only takes one button press at the beginning of a mission. Another possible suggestion would be to make the 'pet stance' stay through zoning and not reset every time back to defensive follow. Not sure how technically feasible or difficult that'd be though.

The description of the badge says, "You took out the mad Vahzilok doctor in the sewers beneath Paragon without killing any of of the Cadavers it was controlling" If a non damaging debuff alone failed it, that'd be a clear bug. Something a log capture would be good to save and submit. A common culprit if no one did it directly is one of them being caught by an exploding barrel.

It is just an easy example that people use, but I feel you. It has kind of become a meme at this point, so I just roll with it. There are also other kinds of difficulties that are rarely held up as an example, like say strategy and tactics games which are an entirely different skill set.

This game is closer to Diablo than Dark Souls. With all of the possible builds and IO sets maybe closer to Path of Exile even. Although when it comes to ARPG's I'm more of a Grim Dawn fan than either of those. 😄 Anyway, it's about the fun of the build and mowing down a ton of enemies. That is perfectly fine. No need to try to turn it into something else. Since it is an MMO you also have the social aspect. I find when multiplayer games tend to become too extreme, they also tend to attract the more 'extreme' players, and the social aspect suffers. The 'casuals' are chased away. A generalization yes, and disclaimer that I'm sure many who want things 'more challenging' are fine people. A last issue with trying to turn this into something more 'difficult' When you do that balance becomes even more of an issue. Right now a favorite set gets nerfed I get a bit miffed or even slightly upset, but at the same time I know I can still do just fine with it. Make things really difficult and suddenly even slight nerfs and characters can get destroyed. The 'meta' builds become even more important, diversity tanks. I love that currently when people ask, "What should I play?" The most common answer is, "Whatever you think looks fun", well except for kinetic melee (I joke). Anyway, I don't like the idea of losing that.

I wouldn't mind seeing DO's and SO's being made significantly cheaper (which would also help the 'upgrade' button cost), otherwise no. Those are more the 'beginners' enhancements and I don't mind making things a bit easier for the 'newbies'.

Yes, Fade, still the worst of them all. Lets turn your entire team invisible against their will. As a kicker, lets have it not actually grant any stealth, so they sometimes run around thinking they are stealthed when they aren't. Okay, sometimes that part can be funny. Ice shields can be another bad one, I know I always use min fx and choose dark colors when I make a cold buffer, but a lot of people don't.

That is correct. Poison gas arrow is one of those that constantly 'tics' though. In its case, every 2.5 seconds it tries to put things to sleep again for its duration as long as they stay in the area of effect. However, It is also low magnitude, so it is only going to affect minions. Honestly, for poison gas arrow, it is more about the damage debuff it gives, which is very high (-50% for defenders). And the damage debuff affects everything, not just minions.

Kinetics might be weaker defensively, but it is potentially very strong offensively. I think that is its whole thing, so it'd be hard to mess with it much. I've also seen some combos like beast/kinetic do very well (all melee pets and run fortify pack to help survive. Use kinetics to more than make up the damage loss of not criting). Anyway, you'd probably have better luck suggesting some minor changes you'd like to see, rather than saying it needs a complete overhaul. And honestly, the biggest trap I've seen for MM's that leads to people complaining about squishy pets I think is more them trying to join teams running level 54 content when they are lower level and sidekicked up to level 49. Have fun with your pets surviving or doing anything when they are facing +6 or +7 enemies.

To throw a positive comment out there: Just want to say I don't agree with or like all these changes (nothing new there), but I think they will end up causing me to roll up yet another group of new alts (and maybe rework and retry some of the ones I've tried in the past) and I'm sure I will have fun doing so. So, this page will make me want to play the game even more, so that's definitely a win overall to me.

I'll still always beat the drum for the ST immobilizes to have their damage sped up or buffed. Right now entangle is still the most skippable power as just taking something like arcane bolt beats it in value. Vines might be the other most skippable now, but that's not really different from live where I also usually skipped it. Otherwise looks pretty good I think. With the changes I might give a plant/storm a try again on live, storm makes up for the bit of damage hit plant has taken. Plant now brings more control options and a bit more reliable self sustain that storm lacks (spirit tree being up more often).

For me, I think it really depends on difficulty settings. On low to moderate settings I find they are the easiest AT to play because you can pretty much go on cruise control. At high to max difficulty settings they can start to be really hard for me as I find micromanagement can become more and more important.

Thanks, but I think it finally dawned on me, at least part of it. I noticed sometimes my fly trap didn't seem to be doing anything on my test server run. I forgot about the new controller commands so it was probably on defensive mode by default. From experience as a mastermind I know if you don't get attacked for a while and a pet is in defensive they will stop attacking even in the middle of a fight until you get attacked again. This can happen when all the mobs are controlled or slowed enough. On live controller pets are pretty much default "aggressive" mode, behind the scenes. But yes, it'll actually be nice to have the regen buff separated so it can be tested better on its own without all these other massive changes making things harder to parse.

Probably going to regret this, but getting back into it again. The point of my test wasn't to show "clear times". Maybe I wasn't obvious enough, but the point was to test how increased mob health regen specifically affected long slow dot damage powers, in a disproportion way compared to more instant damage powers. Throwing in other plant powers isn't going to help a test looking for the affect on long slow dots specifically. When it takes 9 seconds for a power to do its damage and a mobs health regen gets increased a significant amount, it is going to hurt that power more than one that does its damage instantly. That was my main theory. I thought it was pretty obvious of a point, but maybe some think dots are just as good as an instant damage power. Hence testing and then asking specifically if they could look at speeding up the DoT on that one power. Also, I probably confused things by also saying that some extra -regen in something would be nice, which I shouldn't have thrown in there, although it'd still be nice. Honestly would still be happy if they'd just speed up that stupid DoT. Do note that most DoT powers in the game do bonus damage compared to their instant damage alternatives, but controller tier 1's do the same whether dot or instant, which I think violates a basic game formula. So, even on that point alone I think the slow DoT's should be either sped up or given a damage bonus. But that's a different discussion, but one that I have brought up before in the past. If people think that is still looking at things in too much of a vacuum or whatever, fine. They can rip into as much as they want of course. As noted, I also was in the middle of doing a test on "clear times" as well, when the changes were reverted. That is a different test. It can also be different even on that one depending on whether you include secondary powers, pool powers, incarnate powers, temp powers, even loading up on red inspirations. People can test for different things using different parameters. If someone doesn't think it is a useful test then remember people are free to do their own.

Well, I signed on and was doing more testing, at least of using all the plant powers, but then remembered (and double checked with power analyzer) the changes have already been reverted, for now. Interestingly enough even without the health regen changes the killing times were slower on test than live, by a non-negligible amount (wasn't even testing with procs in creepers either). Not sure exactly why, but only ran it twice, so may have been fluky. Anyway, will have to wait until the health regen thing comes around again I guess. Or maybe I should try electric control now with the way people are talking about it.

I was interested in seeing how the change affected the typical main damage power of quite a few of my controllers. I isolated other variables and tested how it affected that power and it noticeably made it worse. Hence suggested a slight buff to it (speeding up the dot, something many have suggested in the past even prior to this change). I personally think It is a little hard to suggest changes to individual powers without testing those powers in isolation. If everyone is calling testing that way invalid though, I won't bother sharing those tests anymore, simple. However, I guess I can say I believe the power that makes up the bulk of my single target attack chain being negatively affected is going to slow down defeat times. I don't need to throw in my other, also anemic, single target damage powers, to believe that. Especially since they are powers that many controllers may not even slot to be damage powers (the hold) or not necessarily taken or part of the primary (pool powers). Vast majority of my characters kill things fast enough that critters don't have any chance to really regen anyway. For most characters the change really is negligible, was just trying to highlight some cases where it might not be (mostly my controllers). Anyway, devs will do what they'll do, I'll adjust or move on.

I mentioned that. "I realize they will have other powers and you can stack it a bit, " But sure, everyone pick apart my attempt at some testing and ignore the bigger point.

Maybe not only the t1 attack, but close to it, yes. I am trying to solo a level 40 boss with that as my main attack quite often. What else do a lot of controllers have for single target damage? As I said, taking a pool power attack? Okay, but not something I'd say should be a requirement and they aren't exactly great damage either. Slotting up your single target hold with damage procs? I don't think that should be heavily considered for balance considering they are also likely to nerf procs at some point. It is what I end up doing most of the time now though because I don't feel I really have another choice beyond being forced to team as a requirement. Going to higher level options, creepers won't even be doing much if you are down to a single boss or two and therefore a single vine or two. Some other control sets have it even worse. The pet at level 26 helps (if you can get that far), and if you can keep it alive and their effectiveness varies. I also feel forced to depend on temp attacks and controller is the only AT I end up using temps all the way to level 50. Accuracy and endurance costs can be a big issue though. I take the single target immobilize on controllers as a main attack power often. It is now noticeably even worse for that role. That was my point. If you don't feel it is a useful test then that's fine. Ignore me. And I hardly think my suggestions were out of line, but others can chime in. I didn't even ask for a damage buff, just a speeding up of the damage already there, and a -regen debuff that wouldn't even completely counteract the added regen that is proposed (would need to be at the top end of my suggestion, 50%, and that is before level differences or resistances). My suggestions would basically just help controllers EVEN with what is already on live, rather than falling behind.

Thanks. Might have otherwise missed that new post. Finally a spot I could put my feedback. Yay.

Thanks for finally explaining it. However, my issue isn't with a "farming point of view" which I do not care about. I don't farm. I care about it that it hurts low and slow damage AT's like controllers (and perhaps defenders). When one of your only few single target damage options is a single target immobilize (something like entangle for plant control) that does low damage and takes 9 seconds to actually do that damage, a boss going from 5.59 to 10.7 per second has a significant effect. Testing: Set to level 40 a plant controller on test spamming entangle could barely even dent a boss' hp bar, even when they were lower level than me. I tried both a crey boss and a rikti mentalist. On live in same situation it was still slow, but I made definitely more noticeable progress. I guess I could try to time both of them to be more exact, but that will take a while, a long while. Numbers: Specifically for entangle it does 6.11 damage every 2 seconds for 9 seconds. Even with containment and fully slotted for damage that is then 23.8 damage every 2 seconds, or about 11.9 damage per second. 11.9-10.7= a whopping 1.2 damage per second after their regen. A level 50 boss has 2,570 hps. It would take at least 30 minutes for a controller with a fully slotted entangle to beat one boss now using just that. I realize they will have other powers and you can stack it a bit, but when it comes to a lot of controllers, honestly there aren't a lot of other options. That is also before you even take into account the damage resistance that a lot of bosses have. Controller chillblain, shadowy binds, stone prison, electric fence, ring of fire, and crush are all similar, Illusion, mind, arsenal, and symphony all appear to have more instant damage options. Not that it won't still hurt them as well. It just even more forces controllers such as plant to take arcane bolt and/or to slot up their hold with damage procs instead of hold enhancements to be able to actually damage a boss at any kind of reasonable rate. It is now noticeably slower. You just made low damage AT's even more poor. Some Possible Solutions: I'd suggest single target immobilizes for controllers (of all sets that have the slow versions) have their damage sped up dramatically, maybe even changed to instant, to help. It taking 9 seconds for the damage to actually tic is no longer feasible with the increased regen rates. Controllers/defenders may also need some minor -regen debuff added to one or more of their control/attack powers (say something like 25% to 50%, (most of which would be resisted by an AV so it would not affect them in any real way). Something that is available for every mob. Not all support sets have -regen or have long enough recharges on them that they are always available. It'd also be a nice way to make controllers maybe more valuable on teams, just a little bit.

Yes, also, the point I made in other posts. We have no idea the reasoning behind the change, which is another issue.

I posted my own test, I think in the main patch thread, using entangle against a -3 boss and did notice a difference. Yes, I wouldn't expect a higher damage AT like tank to see much of a difference. A low damage AT like controller, especially with slow dots, does. Of course without a focused feedback thread, the 'tests' are all over the place so no definitive place to discuss.

Uh, yes they have and are. Per the wiki the current regen rates are: Minion 5% every 42 seconds Lieutenant 5% every 23 seconds Boss 5% every 23 seconds https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Health_Regeneration The patch notes say the new regen rates are: All critters now regenerate health 5% of their health every 12 seconds (does not include GMs or AVs) I guess you could say going from 23 seconds to 12 seconds for bosses and Lt's isn't "technically" quite double, but yes it is very "close to it", by literally 1 second, or around a +92% increase in rate. For minions it is 3.5x the rate, although of course with minions much lower health it isn't as noticeable. It is something that I definitely did notice though, at least on boss level mobs when I did my "side my side" tests. Especially when trying to use slow dot powers like entangle. Also, that there is no focused feedback thread. That makes it tough to even discuss or do "side by side" tests, or even discuss things like how much of an increase it really is, as there is no place to really discuss it or post any tests of it.