jubakumbi

We are still not on the same page. :) I don't think anything has to change, I don't think volunteers haved to be asked for anything. IMO, geeks like me that get an idea they want to see implemented, will get the code, make and test the changes, and then hand it over to server runners to hopefully incorporate/help incorporate. That's a passion project. It won't have much if anything to do with how many players want it, how much 'real value' some thin it adds - it wil happen simply because someone decides they feel like doing it, the need to scratch that itch. Use whatever terms work for you, but I am talking about 100k people that all have ideas and a lot of whom are capable of doing what I just described. Why look for the word to pigeon hole the process? Just let it be what it is, passion and art. Build stuff. Contribute it. Some people will love it, others will hate it, such is life. This is no longer some super-structered hierarchy of capitalism. :)

This. The ATs amd whatnot are there to add a layer of structure for interaction, not as a bludgeon to oppress them. Not everything has to fit into a tiny little box.

We good. :) I just think that things like 'opportunity costs' fly out of the window in this instance, because no corporation to feed, it's all Art and Passion which cannot be turned into a factory. IME. The whole point is that the whimsical/practical/interesting changes and additions will all be passion projects and therefore not really exclusive of each other because while at some point the resources are finite, comparatively they become infinite - Inc. vs. Crowd Source. So, when I see anyone discouraging anything, an _addition_ especially, that in no way seems to be breaking to the core game (not Fortnite), I have to ask why they don't like Fun. :) Opportunity Costs, ROI, Market Penetration - that's for retail games, IMO. We have like 100k passionate players, many of whom are good geeks, so I just don't see resources as the issue. Passion for each thing is what has to be built, if there is something you want. So, it's no longer Us and 'the Devs', it really is, just Us.

Would be hilarious. Especially with 'settings'... Preferences, check all that apply: Large Groups Small Groups Min Maxers Righteous Indignation Build Nazis Current Number of Different Costume Parts On Screen KB Procs

And years later we can all bemoan the Great De-Funning Patches....

Everything is connected in my worldview. Whimsy is a valid reason to do things. Creating Art, and in my mind this is where we are, is a passion project, not making burgers in a factory. Gamer hyped expectations are the gamers fault, as are the negative emotions that follow. I find the brain chemistry that makes a person unhappy because an artist produced art that is not to thier liking to be ... counter to my life outlook. So sure, be dissapointed all you like with the things others do for fun if it makes you happy, I guess. As for you jibe about the Damage Meter, where did I say it would be a waste of time or energy, or that is should not be built? I was very specific. My argument there was that this community would not enjoy it and would actively fight it and that it would have little meaning due to DPS not being 'the thing' that wins in CoH. Personally, I would love some actual meters that worked so we could see how the numbers work in real-time, actually, but I know it would not be well received here. I have watched numbers-oriented-practical-ROI-based-rules-lawyers ahoot down fun, whimsical ideas for years and years. This game might allow a good dose of whismy in it's current state, so I think whimsical things are a great idea. This persistant idea in the gamer world that adding something they don't like is somehow preventing the thing they want, causing them disappointment, is IMO, a false premise, and and old, tired argument. It's always the same - if you add X, you could/should have spent time adding Y - and reality does not work that way.

How tragic.

Crap, now I have to go make a character....

Exactly, anyone can pick up the code and add the BRB, like any other change or addition. If someone wants to add it into the game, how is this 'bad'? Why would anyone be dissappointed? How does this negatively impact _anyone_? If HC wants to add that code into their codebase (or one of them adds it) how is this negative, in anyway? Some people forget how to just have fun without expecting a return on thier investment, IMO, talking about 'wasting time' on creating more things in a video game that is built to help us waste time...

The community around the game never kept me, does not now. The joy the game brings keeps me here. There are plenty of new creative poeple to take the place of players no longer interested. IMO, the 'community' is the games biggest problem right now, because to outsiders, it often looks like a bunch of people fighting over the remains of dead video game. The numbers right now are dang close to the numbers at the end of Live and we know a lot of them are new. I think the game can do just fine in it's niche, because it attracts creative players that don't have a lot of other options for creative freedom. The other people that play the game from my PoV are just like any other MMO, with all the good and the bad personalities. The magic is still here, just waiting to be used, it is not dependant upon players of yesterday, IMO.

The gain is Fun and the Joy of building it, if someone wants to code it. Not everything has to have some +/- in-game-powers-AT-based ROI. I am sure if someone takes it on as a passion project, using the existing code, a smart person could find a reasonable way to implement. It's just code, not splicing DNA in real-time on an infant. Jeesh.

I expect the 1-3 month timeframe pattern with any MMO release will still hold true. Early Access - those they knew about the HC servers early. Public Opening - we got old and newplayers First Wave Leaves for Competition - i24, other MMOs Second wave Leaves (Now) - people in this case realize tastes have changed (Live players) and new players find out they don't like the game. Numbers can drop by half in the RW easily from months 1-3. The number of active users does not usually drop quite lilke that. Also, players play the new shiny 24/7 for a bit, then it becomes a habit/hobby and is relegated to a more stable playtime schedule, altering the in-game numbers. I did not expect the numbers they actually pulled, so it is going to be interesting to see what the retention looks like. Obviously quite interested to see the numbers once one of the Hero MMOs on the worktable is Live.

The really pitiful part is the big stick they try to use is that i25 is somehow Evil because it lowered the Protestant Work Ethic Quota needed to become Incarnate and gain IOs and everything added past Live is 'broken'. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I mean literally, they they to make us feel Protestant Work Ethic _guilt_ because those of us using i25, we are now, somehow, not having to _work_ _hard_ _enough_ in the video game makes us Evil, young and lazy (I am 51), disrepectful to the IP, greedy, the character DB is 'unsafe', every single powerset proliferated after Live is OP, and the HC devs are going to nerf everything into the ground. And all we do is run DFBs and Power Levelling in the AE. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Now wait a minute! A meter to tell us how many Funs Per Second we get!?!? That is a fabulous idea! How else could I possibly know how many Funs I am having without an accurate counter? How else would I know if I am spending my valuable time playing the game properly? And how how else would I be able to tell others how to have the right number of Funs? We need this Funs Per Second meter, we need it now!

I don't even want to talk about the thousands I no longer have, from this very thing... ;)

I play a lot of games. One of them is Battletech. Been a player since it came on the market in the '80s, on and off. There are grognards that _still_ argue over minutae that has not changed in decades. And don't mean polite discussions, I am talking salt the earth with anyone that dares to disgree types of things. I cannot even stand the official forums for the latest game because these grognards rule the roost, nothing is ever right, good enough, or 'in lore' enough, evar, only the 'original written word' is right, except when they don't like it... My point is that some people absolutely thrive on totally useless/baseless drama for the sake of drama. Gamers seem especially vulnerble to this, IME. I think the hate gives them purpose, personally.

Now don't you be bringing that Logic in here again, we have talked about this.... :)

I have seen less of this lately, but I too have seen straight up lies and misinformation, like the ranting about this codebase being somehow magically 'dead-end' when code does not quite work that way. :) I totally get that some people think anything other than what the _official_ developers put in the game is sacrosant and all else is player made crap, but that is nothing more than an opinion, it is not some statement of fact. Most of the player complaints about new/changed game content has been proven to be wrong anyway - the players simply forgot what went in when - and most of the things I see complained about were in or are in 'i24' at pretty much every turn. IMO, the petty CoH crowd has always been around and now they are pissed off that some portion of the players running the secret are involved in HC and should be punished. Thankfully, what they think of as punishment is awesome for the rest of us - they took thier ball and went elsewhere. It really has been, since the secret server reveal, like watching a bunch of school kids on the playground argue over who gets to touch the ball now. Funny and sad, all at once.

I thought the first step was choosing an Origin?

Players are good or bad regardless of level or powerleveled, IMO. The years long, constant calling out of powerleveling as the reason for bad players is, IMO, silly and false. Also, I think players expect too many other players to play just like they do and this clouds the lens and makes poeple judge others harshly for no good reason.

Oh yeah. There are plenty of good non-AE farms, always were.

First off, this community typically just yells out for groups with the min level requirements. The whole concept you bring of 'asking for competent players' is simply not one that is seen here a lot. Like any grouping of humans, if you don't like the group make up, etc., dropping and reforming is an option. Kicking a player out of a group is not something that is common to me, but I understand that's how some people view the world and I know sometimes players are activly trying to troll a group in some way. What I am trying to convey is that taking any of these actions, in this community, over a player 'not DPSing enough' as a kickable/shunnable/non-grouping issue is generally against the grain. Not the idea of kicking a teammate that is not working well with the team, but the idea of removing a player over DPS, in this game, where DPS means jack-shit, simply runs counter to the spirit of this game for most of it's players. I rail against Hall Monitors and Busy Bodies of all types. The community around this game, as much as they disagree on specifics, is based on people freely grouping, playing the game relaxing. The DPS meters and the uses you outline from the get-go, run couter to the general nature of this community. This community sees kicking players over perceived lack of DPS as a jerk move and will treat anyone promoting that idea as a jerk for that reason. I have known many gamers personally that have the attitude on this you do, right now, that played CoH for a while and realized what I am talking about...this game does not work like FF or WoW or Invictus or Fortnite. Also, these same gamers, now 10+ years later, play more like I do and the CoH crowd does and no longer views 'playing an MMO' as something that they should working toward becoming more competent at to impress other players so they can get groups. You are entitled to your opinion/outlook on DPS meters and the playstyle around them. We are entitled equally to have differeing opinions that run directly counter to yours. Data and experience show me that the gaming style you advocate with DPS meters is not welcome in CoH.

In my world, the term is 'trust but verify'. :)

Another aspect I think that is being overlooked is that farming is arguably no longer really needed like it was on Live. It is comparably very easy to gain resources on HC than it was on Live. Basically, my chracters are rolling in inf and resources, just from normal play. I have not felt the need at all to have to go farm anything for resources.

Yeah. I I won't be buying any lifetimes before games release anymore.