marcussmythe

Some general observations (mostly extracted from Kaledin's Numbers, since they are all tested under the same conditions, and by the same person - leveling any questions of player connectivity/lag/execution - note that these are very rough spitballs) Moving from Scrapper to Stalker was worth ~15% Final Damage (for the two sets, DB and Savage, that were tested on both Scrapper and Stalker) Moving from 'not Bioarmor' to 'Bioarmor - Offensive' was worth ~27% Final Damage (for the one set, DB, that was tested on both Bio and not-bio) Moving from 'not TW' to 'TW' was worth at LEAST ~47% Final Damage (This is War Mace, the #2 Scrapper Set, to Titan Weapons) The best damage set is Titan Weapons, second best is WM. The best Stalker set is Dual Blades. If WM or TW were Stalker sets, they would outperform DB. Testing Ideas: What does a TW/Bio Brute put out? What does a TW/??? Brute put out? I'm curious as to how much Brutes 'pay' for easier leveling and 90% Resist Caps. Im also curious to how much tanks pay in damage for an easier trip to resist caps and more HP. Predictions: TW/Bio Brute= ~ 600 DPS TW/??? Brute= ~ 500 DPS TW/Bio Tank= ~450 DPS TW/???? Tank= ~350 DPS If the above numbers pan out (they are WAGs based on eyeballing of Build Momentum buff and uptime, and the above observed ratios) then I THINK we are going to see Titan Weapons push even the likes of a Dark or Invuln Tank up near Psi/Bio Scrapper performance, and TW Brutes, even in NON-Bioarmor putting out DPS on par with the better scrapper and decent bioarmor sets. I'll try to do some testing, but until I can manage the same DPS numbers as Kael (I cant, I dont know if execution or connection issue) any data I bring to the table is 'dirty'

I think the drive for the people pushing for a fix is that they want EM's original hat (single target damage) back. The set we rolled was the highest single-target tank set in the game, and gave up pretty much everything else on that altar. While making ET a nice big bounce or explosion or whatever might be fun, the design space has no paucity of AOE centric sets (driven no doubt by the fact that DPS is King in City, and AOE DPS is the best kind of DPS). And your right - if you reverted it to its original animation time (and did nothign else), the set wouldnt even be the top single target (which I feel, honestly, it should be - having limited other utility)

Given their current willingness to kick the tires on Snipe times, a much easier to implement change, with less balance implications, seems to be something we can hope for. Unless they so buffed EM that it seeiously outperformed TW in single-target damage, there is no apparent danger of making the set too good.

You are fighting the perception (true or false) among a segment of the player base that CoH suffered some painful balance changes (set wrecking, retire the character balance changes) due to the implementation of PvP. These changes may not actually have been DUE to PvP (the developers of the era said they were not. Ask a former Regen player about the candor, competence, and character of the developers of the era), but the impression, as a larger number of those balance changes rolled out around the time or soon after PvP hit, is and will remain that PvP balance was the cause.

Anything with a +Dam Buff will tend to see more value from that buff on a Scrapper vs a Brute - Shield and Dark Melee, notably. Some powersets lose more than others in the port to Stalker - though given the other advantages of the Stalker core chassis, I dont know if any are strictly worse on a Stalker, barring Titan Weapons.

I had totally forgotten KM. You are correct - KM is terrible. Even ‘Free Assassin Strike’ foesnt manage to make it good - and Stalker is a strong upgrade to most sets ported to it.

I assume we just mean power-sets, rather than a specific ' whats the worst thing we can build with bad slotting and power choices' For Primary - since we dont get Energy Melee for Scrappers - Probably Ice? I recall Ice not hitting very hard. For Secondary - well, we count out anything that gives +DAM, and anything that gives +RCHG, and anything that gives +END, and anything with a Damage aura... something that gives you nothing at all other than defense.. and we dont get Stone.. So probably Invuln. It does have a +END Power, on T9, but it kills you. Ice/Invuln, lowest damage Scrapper possible. Also probably the tankiest scrapper possible...

So what did you build him as? What server?

Ohh, good point. I dont tend to need to move around much (Im solo a lot more than I would like due to IRL interrupt issues - not fair to make a team wait), but if you do, yeah, drop out of Mometum time and its back to the worlds longest windup. Im also a little annoyed with.. something.. having to do with animation tmies. Ive noticed it most on Whirling Sword, but for several attacks, you can perform the animation and be halfway into another attack, with the animation long done, and suddenly a pack of baddies gets a 'whump' sound, takes damage, and falls down. My guess is that its something to do with Momentum and having two different animation times for most attacks, but what do I know? Side Note - the other ultra-good damage sets tend to also be Smashing, or Lethal - except for Fire. I need to survey late game resists on mobs - as much Smash/Lethal as is out there, Fire Melee may close some distance with Titan Weapons, while requiring a LOT less care and feeding. OTOH, Titan Weapons has a -DEF power or two and a couple PBAOEs, so it can easily take -RES Procs, in addition to doing - RES itself, and also doing -Res if paired with Bioarmor...

What Jack is referring to by immobility is the long animation times. I have performed a role as floor inspector on many, many occasions because a defense debuff cascade coincided with the 'go make a sandwich' that is your out-of-momentum attack cast time. The fact that your Momentum may have dropped between your brain deciding to fire off that last attack, and the game client starting to process it, means that you have the same 'Im in a week long animation' problem as say, Total Focus - only you get it at unexpected times.

My default suggestion with TW is WP. TW demands animation times, endurance, lots of recharge, and player focus. Willpower almost never presses a clicky, provides copious endurance, and makes almost no demands on the player's attention. Now, WP doesnt have +RCHG, but nothing does everything and its other advantages help you have design room for the END costs. Outside of Willpower, any set that provides some combination of recharge, endurance, limited attention, and little need to PRESS BUTTON NAO TO NOT DIE would be a good choice. I can see SR as an interesting choice. Energy Armor as well, maybe? Invuln might be interesting, inasmuch as once IOed to hell and back, Invuln will be so tough you can almost totally ignore your secondary. Or you could go Bioarmor. Frankly, as the highest DPS AT and Powerset Combo in the game at present, and also the most demanding Scrapper combo (in terms of care and feeding) someone (Are you here, Kaledin?) should just write a guide to that exact character type. Bio is incredible, it feeds you endurance, it can give you a silly damage buff, but its got a couple of massive drawbacks (its a mixed mitigation DEF set with no DEF Debuff Resistance, and its regen-based set that has cycle 3 clicky powers that provide some mix of heal, absorb, and regen between them). Fair warning, Ive got a TW/Bio that I have a love/hate relationship with.

Somone should cosider starting a new pylon damage thread, with the top post by someone active and editing in new times. Im loving watching the times come in for all the scrapper sets. Im wondering how much we can generalize from them? If Bob the Bioarmor is rocking a 50% Buff from Bio - Offensive, and everyone is at roughly 100% in Enhancement Bonuses and maybe another 30% from uptime on Buildup (or w/e) and a free 10% Dam debuff (also Bioamor - goooo Bioarmor!) does that mean (assuming a hypothetical set X doing 100 DPS before buffs and enhancements) does it mean that Bob is gonna do about 308 DPs (base plus buff * 1.1) and Ned the Ninjitsu is gonna push 230? Similarly, if Sammy the SR tank take the same hypothetical offensive set, is that set is gonna do about 2/3 as much damage as Ned was doing (inasmuch as Ned has about 1.25 base mod after crits, and higher bonuses from buildup, etc - while Sammy has a .8 base, but probably also has some bruising uptime) - thus Sammy SR tank is doing about 155 DPS if Bob the Bioarmor Scrapper is pushing 308? ... Id need to test it (and be able to run rotations as smoothly as you guys - a thing I cannot do)... but to drop back to the general case: After accounting for enhancements, built in res debuff, ant the like - my anticipation is that switching from SR/Invuln/WP to Biooffensive is worth about a 33% Damage Out Bonus. Does this seem reasonable, if true? Does Bioffesive give up enough resilience to other sets to justify the damage (aside from the fact that at IOs Biooffensive can +4/x8 general content solo, which is ‘all the tough that matters) Switching from a Tank to a Scrapper looks like about a 50% damage buff - again, reasonable if true? Does the tank gain enough survival to justify doing 2/3 the Scappers Damage? (Same caveats as above)

This build is a billion inf purple trainwreck and if I were better, it would hit those caps without using Agility and while getting perma-hasten. My rationale, howsoever poor, is that Im aiming for 'maxium toughness' with Agility Alpha - I figure if solo swap in Musculature for more damage. But until I can come up with something better, this is my current best attempt at 'absolutely as tough as possible short of maybe Stone, while having as much damage out as possible within the limitations of #1'. A Brute would gain a lot more damage and not give up much toughness. Bioarmor would gain a lot of damage and not give up much toughness. But if 'hard to kill' is my job #1, and Im chasing 'enough damage to solo AVs' as job 2, this is the best I've got. Someone please make a better version. :) Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Dark Armor Secondary Power Set: Titan Weapons Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5) Level 1: Defensive Sweep -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A) Level 2: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31) Level 4: Crushing Blow -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(11) Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(13), GldArm-End/Res(13), GldArm-RechRes(50) Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(15), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(19) Level 10: Titan Sweep -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(25) Level 12: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A) Level 14: Cloak of Darkness -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(27) Level 16: Follow Through -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mk'Bit-Dam%(31) Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A) Level 20: Build Momentum -- RechRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(33) Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(33) Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(34) Level 26: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36), Rct-ResDam%(36) Level 28: Rend Armor -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(39) Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(39), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(39) Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40) Level 35: Whirling Smash -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(40), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(40), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(42), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42) Level 38: Arc of Destruction -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Arm-Dam%(43), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(45) Level 41: Mu Lightning -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46) Level 44: Ball Lightning -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(50) Level 47: Cloak of Fear -- HO:Enzym(A) Level 49: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 1: Momentum Level 50: Agility Core Paragon Level 0: Portal Jockey Level 0: Task Force Commander Level 0: The Atlas Medallion Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve ------------

*claps* Well done!

Ive got a Dark tank build lying around that standard softcaps def to positions on top of the nice, broad res and just lovely self-heal of dark. I should really haul it out sometime.

Im running a Spines character. Picked up Gloom to buff the single target damage performance, but I would swear that its costing me substantial animation time every time I use it - which defeats the whole purpose. Is there any way to eliminate that redraw penalty? Am I seeing things?

Welcome home, my friend. I am also in excelsior, playtime usually sometime between 7PM and late (US Central). If you need mission help, crunchy bits help, or anything, just holler - my globals on my name, most often on C’len, H E R O, or Ramayael at the moment. Im the one who talks too much in Help chat.

I should have said - this is KM with Invuln, rather than SR, and the build is a bit lower recharfe than yours - theres a slight hitch in Hasten, as I want my softcap-all more than I want perma-hasten. Ill try to look at the build when I get to wok, even so. RE: Triggered Hybrid - Maaaaybe? I mean, error creeps in. Id have sworn I didnt, but thats why they are errors. In any event - No Water Spout in my build, would make a real difference I think from the -Rec proc you can put there. My gut tells me if we kept everything else and switched to Bio, wed see damage out go up by a bit around ~30%, which doesnt leave KM looking terrible.

In regards to Concentrated Strike, unfortunately I wasn't surprised by this flaw because KM suffers the same issue on Scrappers. The power hits like a truck, and has a neat mechanic with its ability to refresh the BU effect, but just like on Scrappers, it takes too long to animate and hurts the set empirically. On paper it always looked great, but in practice--especially with Procs and the like--it really hurts the set, especially when it misses. I'd rather miss one 100pt attack for 1/s, than a 300pt attack for 3/s. KM is very fluid in its ability to recover, and do a lot of damage in its first three attacks. Kind of follows a different philosophy that the upper tier attacks are burst-one-shot "fancy" abilities, but just as is true in martial arts, it's the smaller, fast, continuous hits that wear your opponent down. So... it makes sense that CS kinda sucks for DPS. I also just couldnt walk away. Tier 4 Musculature Core Tier 4 Assault Radial (Not activated) Tier 4 Reactive Radial Times: (these times with Makos in SB) 2:27, using your SB>BB>QS>AS 3:10 3:43 4:10 Replacing Makos with Assassins Mark in SB 4:15 4;10 3:56 I am confused. My guess is having a proc sitting after the stealth from AS is doing crazy things to damage out? Also, results are wildly variable. Not sure what is causing variation, though lag may impact times - Im on a wireless network. Also, that 2:27 time is such an outlier that I have no idea - I looked up in the middle of that run and went ‘WTH?’. My best guess is a very lucky string of Quick Strike generating Assassins Focus (I may try a version with no recharge bonus slotted into it - my guess is that Assasins Focus is treated as PPM, and Quick Strike has an already high recharge thar doesnt want enhancing - coupled with Assassin Strike seeing more Hide procs by chance (I notice that it seems AS is procing Hide very unreliably on my test server high recharge slotting - on my live lowbies, with little recharge yet in AS, it proced hide more often, it seems. This also goes to the idea that the chance to hide proc is PPM, but I dont know how Id leverage this, other than to make sure your Assassin Strike’s recharge is no better than the recharge of the heavy hitter your planning on using with it - not an issue with KM, as KM has no worthwhile heavy hitter to run off of AS) I also notice the comment about the extra delay of BU helping - maybe Assassins focus has a hard coded limit to how often it can proc, or something wierd is going on, or were just hammering out chains too fast for the server to keep up? This does suggest further testing is needed in varying recharge and delay conditions.

I took a run-up at the Kinetic Melee version. Unfortunately, I have to agree with the above tester. Results werent just bad, they were excerable, and though they got slightly less excerable when you dropped the T9 attack, it didnt make much difference. Now, I will grant, my execution wasnt the best - Id mis-time things, waste stealth.. but the Kinetics 'DPS Build' is really a gimmick build based on: 1.) Getting Assassin Strike procc'ed up for the crit during a large buildup stack 2.) Getting the rehide proc off of Assassin Strike (I was NOT reliably getting the rehide proc.. less than half the time, at 50 on test, which is ODD.. I feel like I get it a lot more often on live) 3.) Firing off your 3 second T9 to refresh the cooldown on buildup - and having that happen at a time where theres real value to it (I most reliably took B/U off cooldown when it was at 5 seconds or less). I put Gaussians in buildup and specifically measured my B/U times to make sure that Gaussians would trigger nearly every time - and the double buildup IS sexy - but the overall low damage of the set coupled with longish animations and no high damage attack to dump crits into results in a set that doesnt properly take advantage of the changed enviornment of the ATO proc (and it was not a well regarded set to begin with)

Kinetic Melee is not really strong on AOE - burst is small. Im starting to love this unloved set, but Id not choose it for AOE. StJ has Im told decent AOE and looks very ‘hockey brawl punchy’ to me. Secondary - for Ice Hockey Player, maybe Willpower?

As long as your attraction to Energy Melee is based on visuals (Power Pom-Poms GOOO!), or stacking stuns (Stun+ET+TF is a lot of mag, espc if you enhance for it), or because you want to do some energy damage (less resisted than smashing, but check and see - a lot of your damage out is still smashing), Energy Melee will not dissapoint. If you chose Energy Melee to do damage, Id suggest another set. Any other. For Willpower - yeah, WP is great, and serves to mitigate the drawback of Energy Melee. But we all know WP is great by now, right? Right???

You'd think that was the case, but it is a bit silly (and I don't take your statement as you being serious either). Anyway... I feel QS has value, but you obviously seem to understand Focused Burst is a DPA difference not in your favor. If that is your preference, then go for it. If you enhance up with your attack chain you're going to be stomping goons left and right. No, it probably won't win you the fastest time on a Plyon test with FB in the rotation, but that doesn't mean it will be "bad". I mean, Moonbeam going to hit like a truck, so do it? The statement was intended playfully. I love knowing the numbers, knowing where to nibble at the edges for 'real ultimate performance' on a character - working out the math to say which attack should get the -RES proc, what order its in... But Ive got less and less interest in building and playing those characters over the years, if that makes any sense. I like doing the fun, non-optimal stuff. I just like knowing how much I'm giving up for fun, and how I can give up the least to still get my 'fun'. Amusingly, Im pretty happy with the single-target out, even late 30s with the bad attack chain. Some of that is just Stalker/Assassin Strike/Rehide Proc in Assassin Strike. Im considering going even sillier, and instead of Moonbeam/Dark Blast, going Mu, and grabbing the blast, the snipe, and the AOE, to have a second AOE. Whats funny is that would be a not-horrible plan if Zapp wasnt so inferior to Moonbeam. Does anyone know why Mu Mastery - Zapp is -so bad- compared to Soul Mastery - Moonbeam?

“Bio gives me a headache.” Love the set, but holy crap it needs a manual - there is sooo much going on. Amusingly, I find it harder to softcap S/L defense on a Bio Tanker than on a brute or scrapper - since in both cases you are relying on set bonuses, and the Scrapper and Brute get 5% S/L def from an ATO set - 10% if they break the set into 2x3 piece bonuses. Still doable, you just end up leaning a lot harder on other sets.

Id love to see what your build stabilizes at - My TW/Bio is stalled in the early 40s in favor of an aggressively bad-but-fun stalker Im toodling around on - and I think you build a bit better than I do.