Zepp

For reference: Assault generally has 2 melee, 3 ranged (excluding snipes), 1 melee AoE, 1 ranged AoE, 1 boost, and 1 special (often a snipe, sometimes a toggle, or something else). The special in this set is a toggle, and one ranged was replaced with a summon... The longest range for a melee attack (atm) is 13' (Crushing Uppercut). You are suggesting making Corruption, Lash, and Hell on Earth 20' melee attacks? I suppose you want Crack Whip as a 20' Cone as well... Also, I am unclear about what you want to do with Hell on Earth. You want to convert it to an attack with the most powerful hold in the game (but for only 2s - up to 5s if it is modifiable) that is also a summon? Also, Flares and Fire Blast (While they may work) are already in the Fiery Assault set, which would decrease differentiation between the two sets. The Fire Blast Attacks that do not occur in Fiery Assault are Fire Ball, Rain of Fire, and Inferno. I actually think that Rain of Fire and Inferno work better for the feel of the set...

That would be perfect. Hover Tar is annoying AF...

Name Animation Level Description Corruption Corruption 1 Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res Helltouched Scorch 2 Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic) Infernal Lash Lash 4 Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic) Infernal Whip Crack Crack Whip 10 Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun Hellfire's Wrath Envenomed Blades 16 Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks Fueling Flames Cauterizing Aura 20 Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec Hell Unbound Burn 28 Location PBAoE, Moderate DoT (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res Self +Res (Immobilize) Summon Hellfire Hell on Earth 35 Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic) Gates of Hell Inferno 38 PBAoE, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res

That's an interesting idea, but there is already a Dark Assault set, so it may feel like it is encroaching on that set too much.

For reference, the Hellfire set in Rebirth is: (Reference - Posted August 30th) Now, I placed the reference date to make it clear that any ideas in this thread that are similar to the Hellfire Assault set on Rebirth, but predate it, can not be considered infringement. Furthermore, it is acceptable to take ideas and/or lessons from said set to help improve the proposals that have been made. I am going to say, while @Steampunkette's suggestion of using: was not my original choice, it is viable. And does make sense. That being said, I think there are some areas where my adapted proposal: Hellfire's Wrath (which is very similar to Soul Searing (in the latter adaptation by Rebirth), and is better for this set than a pure build up. Also, using Fueling Flames (HoT/DoT) is good for the feel of the set. For the four whip animations, I think modifying Hell on Earth to a Patch (or untargeted summon) works better than trying to convert it into a regular attack (in the Rebirth version it just doesn't look right). That being said, replacing the fire sword animations with two melee single target and one melee multi-target attack based on fire with the hellfire graphics would be the step needed to update the set. Why two melee ST and one melee MT? Based on the design of other Assault sets, that is generally what is appropriate. The Rebirth version has only one Melee and one PBAoE, similar to @daveyfiacre, and the Fiery Assault set has one melee ST and two melee MT. So, there is room for debate, but the use of an aura strongly suggests a preference for moving into melee. So, there are two single target attacks from Fiery Melee that are not in Fiery Assault or Fire Control. They are Scorch and Cremate. Then there is one PBAoE that I found in Fire Manipulation/Fiery Aura, that could be used for the set. It is Burn. There is another PBAoE that fits the criteria, it is from Fire Blast (the T9). It is Inferno. Take a look at the graphics for these four attacks and they could all be used. That being said, I think Scorch, Burn, and Inferno match the set the best. So, my updated proposal is: Name Animation Level Description Corruption Corruption 1 Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res Helltouched Scorch 2 Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic) Infernal Lash Lash 4 Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic) Infernal Whip Crack Crack Whip 10 Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun Hellfire's Wrath Envenomed Blades 16 Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks Fueling Flames Cauterizing Aura 20 Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec Hell Unbound Burn 28 Location PBAoE, Moderate DoT (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res Self +Res (Immobilize) Summon Hellfire Hell on Earth 35 Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic) Gates of Hell Inferno 38 PBAoE, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res Aside from the three new powers, the notable differences are that the T7 and T9 now have -Res, and the T7 also has immobilize resistance added. Thematically it has the feel of turning the whole battlefield into a hellscape through the use of Hell Unbound creating a patch and Summon Hellfire summoning, well, hellfires... Gates of Hell will also give some flashiness to it. Just wondering what everyone thinks...

But you don't have to use Build Up to use Foot Stomp. You need Momentum for Whirling Smash, which essentially increases downtime...

Regen has yet to recover from its ubernerf. That being said, I would say that Reconstructive Healing is actually stronger than Regen. Regen at its fullest is approximately 60% uptime for Insta-Healing (+1040ish regen for you) and 25% uptime for Moment of Glory... Comparatively, Regenerative Aura has a 75% uptime (+1100ish regen for your entire team), plus it has a perm-able 18%ish defense and to-hit buff for the entire team... I'll take that over Moment of Glory... not to mention the 75% uptime recovery boost for the entire team... The more I look at it, the more attractive the set appear to be...

I would definitely like a set that is Assault/{Armor/Control}, but based on the voting, it seems like the support path is more popular. Thinking about {Armor/Control} sets let's look at what one might look like: Would that step on Dom's feet too much?

In terms of differentiation, I think a good inherent could go a long way to differentiating it.

I have to check the Composition powers on Rebirth to make sure this is not too similar to those.

Edit: I was thinking of Focused Purpose as being thematic to the AT, an AT that survives and supports... So we are back to mixing sets. If three is a reasonable number of set powers for that chunk of defense/resist, we could look at combining some of the ideas thrown out. Three defense or resist focused powers with two parts, a standard toggle and a team buff. The buff lasts about 15s to allow teammates to spread out as long as you pass by them once every 15s or so. The defensive sets should aim for approximately 22% with one standout area and possibly one weak area. Resist sets should aim for around 45% resist with standout and/or weak areas. I would suggest keeping the sustains from the Manipulation sets, this will allow quicker recovery when repositioning. Basically that would give us three Armor powers, one sustain from Manipulation, and five Support powers. One of those Support powers ought to be an AoE heal, while the others are open. Does that sound workable? T1 Armor 1 (Melee or S/L) T2 Support Set AoE Heal T3 Armor 2 (Ranged or E/N/P) T4 Manipulation Sustain T5 Support 1 T6 Armor 3 (AoE or F/I/T) T7 Support 2 T8 Support 3 T9 Support 4

How about 見性 (Kensho), to see into one's own true nature...

What I am thinking is that each set will be based on existing Support sets. It will have a Tier mindlink-like power, Focused Purpose: 120s recharge (unaffected by mods) 120s duration. PBAoE (35' radius), +5% to all Defense, +10% to all Resist, +5% ToHit {about}. It will also replace one power with the Manipulation set sustain power. When appropriate, Ally Heal will be converted to a form of Team heal. I've outlined the first three sets (alphabetically) with changes highlighted. Cold Domination Power Level Effect Focused Purpose 1 PBAoE, Team +Defense (all), +Resist (all), +ToHit Infrigidate 2 Ranged, Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -DEF(All), -DMG(Fire) Snow Storm 4 Toggle: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -Fly Frigid Protection 10 Toggle: PBAoE, Foe -Recharge, -Speed, -DMG, Self +Absorb over Time, +Recovery Frostwork 16 Ranged, TAoE Ally +Max Health, +Res(Toxic) Arctic Fog 20 Toggle: PBAoE, Team Stealth, +DEF(All), +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Slow) +Res(Status) Benumb 28 Ranged, Foe -DMG, -End, -Regen, -Special Sleet 35 Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Cold), Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -DEF(All), -Res(All) Heat Loss 38 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -End, -SPD, -Res(All), Team +End, +Recovery Dark Miasma Power Level Effect Focused Purpose 1 PBAoE, Team +Defense (all), +Resist (all), +ToHit Tar Patch 2 Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -SPD, -Jump, -Fly, -Res(All) Darkest Night 4 Toggle: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -DMG, -To-Hit Touch of the Beyond 10 Fear, Foe -ToHit, Self +Regen, +Rec Twilight Grasp 16 Ranged, Foe -Regen, -DMG, -To-Hit, Team Heal Shadow Fall 20 Toggle: PBAoE, Team Stealth, +DEF(All), +Res(Energy, Negative, Psionics, Fear) +Res(Status) Fearsome Stare 28 Ranged (Cone), Foe Fear, -To-Hit Petrifying Gaze 35 Ranged, Foe Hold Dark Servant 38 Summon Dark Servant: Ranged, Debuff, Special Kinetics Power Level Effect Focused Purpose 1 PBAoE, Team +Defense (all), +Resist (all), +ToHit Transfusion 2 Ranged, Foe -End, -Regen, Team Heal Siphon Power 4 Ranged, Foe -DMG, Team +DMG Energize 10 Self Endurance Discount, Heal, +Regen Siphon Speed 16 Ranged, Foe -SPD, Self +Recharge, +SPD Increased Density 20 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Ally +Res(Smash, Energy, Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Knockback), -SPD(Special) Speed Boost 28 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Ally +Recharge, +SPD, +Recovery, +Res(Slow) Transference 35 Ranged, Foe -End, Team +End Fulcrum Shift 38 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe -DMG, Team +DMG

Hurricane has repel (that is what that push-back is), Tornado does not. There are two issues, one is the cottage rule (not changing powers because there are people that have taken them that like them the way they are). This is actually a high number as 73.41-85.71% of players with Storm are taking Hurricane (depending on the AT). Furthermore, Hurricane is one of the best herding tools in-game if used properly. You can herd, lock down, and debuff enemy mobs with a single power... If you want to do it through an IO, it would have to be separate from KB-KD proc (different effect), and would require much more complicated programming as you are changing effects rather than changing magnitudes. Second, because there are so few powers with repel, it is something that would be very time-consuming with little benefit. The 20-30% of players that have storm but do not use hurricane being the primary group, but that is a small subset of a small subset of the CoH community, and there are lots of other matters that require attention. My suggestion is to practice with Hurricane so you can get the geometry right to use it as a herding tool. You can then learn to lockdown mobs in corners and keep them permanently debuffed.

If you take the Scrapper-level Defense Toggles from a set like Super Reflexes and Practiced Brawler, that is four powers that allow you sufficient survivability while opening the door for five Support powers. That could be used as a sort of baseline for a mixed set. The other pattern would be to have a mindlink-like power. That may be OP as a tier one, or it may not be, depending on scaling. It would, however, provide a signature T1 ability, much like Stalker's Hide ability. Potential numbers for a T1 mindlink-like power: 120s recharge (unaffected by mods) 120s duration. PBAoE (35' radius), +5% to all Defense, +10% to all Resist, +5% ToHit. It is a solid chunk of defense, resist, and to hot without being overwhelming. Might have to figure out a way to fit status resists into the set somehow as well.

Actually, I am rethinking Manipulation sets. Rather than using them as a base, it may be better to have Mindlink T1, Manipulation sustain power T4-T5, and the rest just based on Support sets.

The Duo is cleaning the floor with a Paladin-esque AT proposal atm, so that is another option we should consider. Some people do want a Paladin-esque AT, but how do we do that in the CoH framework. Also, what exactly do people want from a Paladin-esque AT. Depending on the context you are looking at, some Paladins are designed like Defenders, others are more like Tankers, while there are also some Melee/Ranged versions as well. What it appears the data suggests is that Assault is fairly popular, as is Melee. People also seem to want a Support or Support-ish set. Then the discussion goes to, how can we best meet that need while not stepping on the toes of other ATs or "stealing" Guardians from Rebirth. The idea of a Melee/Armor* set is a good one, but it would be joining four other Melee/Armor sets, and if some Tankers are mad about Brutes now, just think about how they'll feel with that version of Paladins... I love control, but my personal enjoyment of that playstyle does not seem to be reflected in the desire for a buff/debuff oriented AT. Looking at Manipulation, it offers some good ideas. That being said, Manipulation sets tend to have four-five (on average) damage-focused attacks, and insufficient support. However, moving to Assault would allow Melee attacks in the primary, opening up four-ish slots for group Buffs/Debuffs. Again, I think a T1 Mindlink-ish power that is universal across sets in addition to the Sustain power already in these sets would provide sufficient mitigation. Add in the self-buffs from these sets, and some team buffs, and the sets look like they have a the right mix for a Support AT that can be in Melee, but maybe not all the time.

Thank you for mentioning the other issue with doing Assault/{Armor/Support}, it would closely resemble what is already being done on another server. I understand where you are coming from, in terms of either moving mitigation to the primary or having a solid mitigation secondary, but I think that having a lower level of mitigation can encourage placement as mitigation (to focus on using the full Assault set), while also making them better at Support. I think we are looking at an AT that has a more balanced approach to DPS/Mitigation/Support rather than focusing only on one or two.

@Steampunkette, I like your ideas. That being said, I'm not sure adding a fifth AT to the Melee/Armor spectrum is the best way to go, which seems to be where you are heading with this. I have two issues in particular. First, I think adding a second Assault AT would be better than adding a fifth Melee AT. Second, I think what the evidence suggests people are attracted to is the flavor of buff/debuff sets in a non-ranged AT. The issue is that with Assault (even moreso with Melee), there needs to be a degree of survivability. That is why the concept of a mixed set is so often suggested. The issue is that the powerscale for the powers in the mixed set would be difficult to balance between functionality and equipoise with other ATs. That can be done in a number of ways. Your suggestion is one way. This provides a good deal of survivability and a team benefit. Unfortunately, it is a lot less flavorful than the buff/debuff or manipulation sets. Another way is to have four broader-spectrum defense/resist powers that provide Stalker/Sentinel-level defense/resist (or thereabouts) and a handful of buffs/debuffs. This is less survivable, and requires more development, but it does preserve the flavor. A third way is to use the Manipulation powersets, but replace the T1 with something that is like Hide for Stalkers, except closer to Mindlink in functionality. The combination of the T1 defense and the Manipulation sustain power would provide a lower level of protection, while offering a lot of flavor and providing sufficient distance from Defenders. I tend towards the Assault/Manipulation* approach, but I'm open to hearing some other suggestions outside this list, or endorsements for the other two paths. @Pbuckley818 You have inspired me to start working on a Storm Manipulation proposal...

Have you gone over to Rebirth Test server and tried their version of this set? I think it is what you wanted. I would definitely support that set, although I think dropping two of their powers to use my proposed Fueling Flames and Summon Hellfire would be a better way to go...

Because I like it. it sounds so fun. I was just thinking which of the three concepts for this powerset combos I would play first... That being said, I could really use your input on the Archetype Proposal Amalgamation thread. Your opinion in that thread would be quite helpful.

omg, if I weren't in the middle of booking a flight to Korea I'd update the compilation thread right now... give me a couple minutes... Alright, it's been added.

I need to go through this thread and add the ideas to my compilation threads...

I suggested that with the Zoomer (I placed manipulation in front, but it would work as well in the opposite direction). How about taking that combo, removing the T1 immobilize and replacing it with a broad-based PBAoE click defense/resist power (something similar to Mind Link).

My suggestion would be to go with Assault as the primary, as it is underused. This would also make sense for Paladins, as they tend to have a mix of melee and ranged attacks. This would also help differentiate them from the other melee classes. The secondary is more complex. I would recommend a mix of defense, control, and buffs. The defense would likely be Scrapper levelish for individual powers, but would end up being Sentinel levelish because fewer powers are used to get to the end result. The general breakdown I am thinking is: T1 broad-based defense, resist, absorb, or mixture thereof. T2 PBAoE or TAoE heal Followed by 3 more defensive powers, 2-3 buffs or debuffs, and 1-2 AoE control. This would provide a good breadth of abilities with suitable sustainability, but minimal toestepping. Anyone else have thoughts?