Sovera

First tests in with Degenerative 75% chance and 25% DoT, Musculature 45%, Hybrid (not clicked): - Endurance is incapable of keeping up with the demands. Even without Tough and Tactics toggled on, even with Defensive Opportunity, I ran dry in two minutes. I had to take some slots from other places to slot a Miracle and add a second +5 slot to Stamina for the build to manage to hold on to the four minute mark when I ran dry again, but since it was the very end of the test I kept on without toggles. - Disappointing performance. At the four minute mark I stopped the test since the pylon still stood and had 1/5th HP. There goes the dream of reaching three minutes thanks to /Bio pushing more than /Ninjutsu.

A spin-off from the Rad/Bio to embrace our firey overlord (while also enjoying the elegantly fast animations of Fire instead.. of.. posturing... and...shooting.. Matrix slow motion...). Same deal, same idea: With /Bio being so arduous to softcap the defenses are pushed close to 40% and then Barrier takes the slack adding the last 5% (Barrier *always* adds at least 5% defense). Fast animations, Offensive Adaption, KO Blow to accelerate the build and do Inferno levels of damage in single target every 12 seconds. Inferno backed by Aim goes to 646 damage and then Offensive Adaptation pushes it further to 839. In the same vein KO Blow starts at 691 with Aim to then reach 898 😅...that poor boss in the middle of a pack taking Inferno + KO Blow to the face backed by Aim... This is currently a place to write things down and ponder how to best achieve best overall results instead of pure damage in a vacuum. For example Fire Blast allows Defensive Opportunity which pretty much negates endurance woes all by itself (and in actual testing from the Rad/Ninjutsu Defensive Opportunity actually made for better times than Offensive Opportunity), but Fire Blast is a 'long' 1.8 animation steering away from Fire's beautifully fast combo making. So, decisions time. But with Justin the PTS back up it's easy enough to just try the different things and see what works out better. Current questions: - Worth it to lose 10% recharge time to fit the -res in Fireball? Or instead lose a damage proc in Blaze to regain the 10% recharge? Or sacrifice the -KB in Blazing Blast? -KB is mostly 'cosmetic', but pushing and then doing a KB on top of that is incredibly obnoxious since the inertia of being repelled is added to the KB distance. - The endurance seems like it will be a problem. Worth it to slot Fire Blast to make it a non thing? - Accuracy seems low-ish. This makes wanting to run Tactics tempting, but, its slotting is atrocious and the endurance problems rear its head once more. Rotation musings: At first glance simply changing Flares for Fire Blast would allow for Blaze (1.2 animation, 3.11 recharge), Blazing Blast (1.8 animation, 3.44 recharge) and Fire Blast (1.8 animation, 1.4 recharge). 1.8 + 1.8 = 3.6, Blaze has recharged when the cycle starts again. 1.2 + 1.8 = 3 seconds, Blazing Blast has a 0.44 gap before it recharges which can be filled with Fireball (1.2 animation, 4.46 recharge). 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.8 = 4.8 animation which fits Fireball's recharge and Fireball can be fitted with a -res proc so this is practical. But if we add Fireball we can cut down on Fire Blast's 'long' animation and move back to Flares because 1.2 + 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.2 = 5.4 animation which is more than enough to get Blaze and Blazing Bolt back up. So Blaze, Blazing Blast, Fireball, Blaze and Flares, where Flares can be substituted for Haste/Destiny/KO Blow/Aim. Or 1.2, 1.8, 1.2, 0.11 gap, 1.2, 1.2. And now a 2.2 gap until Blazing Blast recharges. With Fire Blast this would become a 1.6. No need to chase Flares quick recharge if it gives a larger gap in waiting, incidentally fixing endurance problems by activating Defensive Opportunity, and instead of substituting Fire Blast for Hasten/Destiny/Aim/KO Blow we use the 1.6 second gap for those. Or we ignore the 0.44 gap since it's so minor. The tiniest bit of latency, Hasten/Destiny going off, etc etc and half a second is gone making the rotation take 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.8 + 0.44 = 5.24 animation + gap. Sort of a wash except in EPS and -res proc chances. With the build having some endurance problems due to being so tight in slots EPS is a consideration. Using Fire Blast is not perfect because Fire primes for the beautifully short animations and we mar it with FB, but Fire Blast does trigger Defensive Opportunity which can be a consideration for some builds because of the endurance recovery, and it also does more damage (121 Flares VS 189 Fire Blast) though it eats more animation time. KO Blow for the Force Feedback proc to accelerate the build (and because T9 levels of damage ST every 12 seconds, sure) can take the place of Fire Blast/Flares, or even Fireblast/Flares + Fireball combined (not counting with Aim or Offensive adaptation KO Blow 2.4 animation and 447 damage. Flares + Fireball 2.4 animation and 243 damage total. KO Blow also has the Force Feedback to make everything recharge faster).

I'm going to move this out since it's derailing the topic of the thread.

At first glance simply changing Flares for Fire Blast *seems* like it would allow for Blaze (1.2 animation, 3.11 recharge), Blazing Blast (1.8 animation, 3.44 recharge) and Fire Blast (1.8 animation, 1.4 recharge). 1.8 + 1.8 = 3.6, Blaze has recharged when the cycle starts again. 1.2 + 1.8 = 3 seconds, Blazing Blast has a 0.44 gap before it recharges which can be filled with Fireball (1.2 animation, 4.46 recharge). 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.8 = 4.8 animation which fits Fireball's recharge. But if we add Fireball we can move back to Flares because 1.2 + 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.2 = 5.4 animation which is more than enough to get Blaze and Blazing Bolt back up. Or we ignore the 0.44 gap since it's so minor. The tiniest bit of latency, Hasten/Destiny going off, etc etc and half a second is gone making the rotation take 1.2 + 1.8 + 1.8 + 0.44 = 5.24 animation + gap. Sort of a wash except in EPS. My Rad/Bio Fire/Bio mock-up has some endurance problems due to being so tight in slots so EPS is a consideration. Using Fire Blast is not perfect because Fire primes for the beautifully short animations and we mar it with FB, but Fire Blast incidentally does Defensive Opportunity which can be a consideration for some builds because of the endurance recovery, and it also does more damage (121 Flares VS 189 Fire Blast) though it eats more animation time. That Fire/Bio I mentioned is using KO Blow for the Force Feedback proc to accelerate the build (and because T9 levels of damage ST every 12 seconds, sure) that can take the place of Fire Blast/Flares, or even Fireblast/Flares + Fireball combined. Edit: Though including Fireball has its perks since it too could take the -res proc.

I will say that... yes, turning a tanker into a brute by raising their damage is off. In the end just bring a brute then. But if a brute is selfish damage what about tanks contributing damage FOR the team, which is what the tank is about, what the players who use tanks tend to be and want to be about: being a team player. People don't make brutes *to* tank, they just incidentally tank. People who make tanks don't do it for the damage or to farm AE, they do it to be in a team and they *want* to have everyone safe and all eyes on them. Something like every mob that is taunted by the tank receives a (I'm going to say a random number) -20% resist. So it's like, bring a brute for incidental tanking and for the brute's selfish damage, and bring a tank (perhaps not make the 20% stack) not just tanking and grouping up mobs, but also because the tanks would literally increase everyone's damage. Another thing that might help make tanks more appealing is doing something similar to what Death Knights tanks in WoW have which is an AoE pull move. When a lot of the game is about getting packs grouped up for AoE and knockback is generally reviled to the point a specific IO set was invented to remove it, then bringing a tank that groups up annoying scattered mobs plinking it from afar in order to be AoEd them would make a tank as precious as DKs in Wow are where they are universally loved for their ability to group packs for the same AoE purposes. Imagine Taunt not being a targeted AoE but a PbAoE that does knockback of... (random numbers again, bear with me) 10 magnitude, but MINUS 10! Horry sheet, tanks hitting that in a (random numbers, it's ya boy again) 20-25 radius and all mobs in that range hovered up would make them as precious as their weight in gold.

When I read that I think 'Bring either then'.

HYPE!

I was in your boat at the start of the week. I *wanted* to try a Fire sentinel and level it up. But I looked at the numbers and they did not *look* amazing. And then I looked at Blazing Bolt *still* being bugged four months later and no ETA, so I went with the tried and true Rad for triple procs.... The damn animations are so *glacial* though. I half feel I ought to have gone Fire anyway and hope that the devs will have fixed it, but if they haven't in four months... Just looking at the character creator and it does not seem the the homogenization did Fire any favors. Someone correct me if wrong, but the attacks seem to be on par with the other sets and what damage Fire's DoTs add are eclipsed by being able to slot procs that Fire is unable to. Even the T9s are all equal. Where it shines is in the blazing fast animations. The T2 is an 1.8 animation (I found Defensive Opportunity better than Offensive because of endurance), but since there would be no procs then attacks could be better slotted which would remove the need for Endurance and thus Defensive, I guess, Blaze still that beautiful 1.1 all attacks aspire in City of Animationlock, BB is 1.8 which is boo, but okay. I tried Rad already and it did not get great times. Only 4 minutes despite all the procs. I blame all the uber slow animations though. 1.8, 1.8 and 2,2. That's basically one extra attack for Fire in the time Rad does a full rotation.

No no, just me waiting until the end of the week when Justin goes back to being a test server for what you mention. We don't get free incarnates and merits atm.

I wish I could.

Other than all the hami brouhaha I just want to say thanks for something much more minor that is a slider for name scaling. I couldn't read most names, and now I can, so thank you.

Wow, I go to bed and this just explodes. With Justin still down for testing this is not really possible, but the ultimate put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is is to simply head there, stock up on purple and greens inspirations, do a pylon run (not because it matters but to be used as a reference) and come back saying the time it took to kill it and the rotation/buffs used. Once that is done we can dissect a build and see *why* it got the times it got, which was how we collectively got to epic pool Holds being such godnabbit proc holders that improved on builds. Doing math to predict results is nice and it sort of works, but not when assumptions are made or small errors start creeping up unnoticed. A nice empirical test clears all nay saying and assumptions. It's why @Sir Myshkin's work in proc monsters is so *amazing*. He does not just sit down with a calculator and assume but he goes out there and tests for hours and then relates the empirical results he got, to then build on them. Edit: I'm reminded of the spreadsheet that was going around for a while when Homecoming started. The guy was trying to see which sets did the most damage and it started being taken as gospel despite voices questioning things like, where, exactly, would *anyone* manage to run at recharge cap, outside of a MSR, so how feasible were the conditions for the numbers he was putting on display and that were starting to be parroted around, or how the rotations used to decide the damage of a set were not optimal (and probably not even taking -res procs into consideration which some sets can use and others not). Empirical.... data.... 4thewin!

Yes, we have established that in the last two pages and now I'm starting to feel like we are bullying the poor guy.

What? No Flares? *flees harder!*

I keep talking of 3 minutes in Nihilii's run, but I completely forgot/missed his 2:20 run(s). Dayum! That's... that's downright Blaster territory. Firmly in there actually. And with a gimped Fire set that has its big attack bugged. I'm not sure if he didn't click on his Hybrid toggle. I was pondering leveling a Rad/Bio I recently cooked up but I don't think it will ever catch up. The slow attack chain with two 1.8 animations and one 2.2 make for a glacial rotation. With the Rad/Ninjutsu I only reached 4 minutes despite all the procs built into it and I don't think /Bio will shave two minutes. I blame the slow animations.

Sure? I don't get the reasoning, but there is no one single 'correct' way. I don't even consider runnings TFs as powerleveling. I see it as: I need XP to level. At maximum level I want the accolades since they are all pretty easy to get. I run TFs, get the XP I need to level, get merits to gear the character, get progress for the accolades. A single TF is all it takes to be high enough level to do the next one, so no need to repeat them (outside of Numina at 35 since this playstyle means I reach level 33 and need to do something for the last two levels).

Ice does a lot of damage but this is partly because it can also take a lot of damage procs, which are sort of kind of like DoTs.

Funny that you should mention this because I dreamed up a Rad/Bio Sentinel last night which ought to surpass my previous Rad/Ninjutsu.

The praise on Sentinel damage is becoming a bit hyperbolic. When I said earlier that their damage in *practical* terms was good what I meant was that their nuke + Aim is available at every spawn making half of it dead from the start and only leftovers to mop. A Blaster does not do 'a little bit' more damage. It does on average twice the damage. Sentinel's Inferno + Aim is 600 damage (with the Offensive Adaptation of /Bio it should go up to around 800 damage), while a Blaster's inferno without Aim or BU does 1k. *With* it their Inferno does 2k. One recharges in 25 seconds and the other in 40 seconds, sure, but because Inferno does so much damage there is no point in popping Aim + BU with it and a player can do Inferno + AoEs on one spawn, and then the next spawn use Aim + BU + AoEs. The best pylon time I saw with a Sentinel was 3 minutes. The best time with a Blaster was 1:30-ish, though usually around 2 minutes which *is* pretty close. Saying a Blaster will diminish their offense to stack defense is a bit daft. What can they add more when recharge has reached near perma? Procs, sure, but Blasters do so much damage that they don't even *care* about procs and their best offensive set doesn't even take well to procs. I recently tried a radiation blaster with quadruple procs expecting some unholy marriage of blaster damage and a proc monster only to be disappointed at 5 minute pylon times. That's how much disparity there is between Blaster sets unlike Sentinel's homogenization (Aim + BU + Radiation's Blast's T9 doing 1200 damage while Inferno does 2k. Procs? Whatever for?). And what will a Sentinel add to their offense once they defense is softcapped? The only thing is procs, which are more the territory of ST and not AoE, and the game really is 90% AoE. Bottom line: - Without a DPS meter like Recount it does not matter nor will we ever manage to know who is staying ahead. It's a pity really, because I *loved* the mini game of trying to be the best. It's what pushed me to get better and in raid guilds where I was #1 in damage I stopped trying while if I was 2nd or 3rd I'd scour the net for theorycrafting and test and experiment and keep pushing to improve. - Blaster has the burst when it needs it (ITF, Cyst, pack of kheldian bosses, Sentinel does 600 (800 if /Bio) damage, Blaster does 2k. In fact, it does a lot more since it will then continue to unload their AoEs while still empowered by Aim and BU) but can pace themselves to keep up with a Sentinel's sustain by not blowing BU + Aim + T9 every time that they are up. This is what's called a low ceiling. No matter what the Sentinel will never get past that 600-800 ceiling while a Blaster can pick and choose whether to play in sustain damage mode or burst mode. - The difference between the two is not all that large for someone who loves a Sentinel. It's not like playing one means insta-kick from teams. I mean, yes, the average Sentinel using a theme and six slotting their build like normal will see 6-7 minute pylon times (I'm using pylon times as a reference, not because pylon times matter) while someone in the in will be proccing the heck out of their build and picking their secondaries with care. Simply by loading up in procs my Rad/Ninjutsu went from 6 minutes to 4 minutes. I keep using Nihilii's Sentinel as a reference since he had the best times I saw yet, but by picking /Rad he went to 3 minutes. If a Blaster gets an average of two minutes if doing *well*, then three minutes is pretty darn close. But that three minute time is not going to be for the average player though. That said there are Fire Blasters in the pylon thread with 4-5 minutes (perhaps using Flares as a filler (yes, I'm roasting you @modest, come at me! *flees!* 😄 )).

Who has two thumbs and fixed the Aim and T9 ugly recharge times? That's right, this guy. What can I saaaaaay except you're welcome, you're welcome! It's down to a much more satisfying 27 seconds both. Less once Force Feedback starts proccing. I would have still liked to slot Inexhaustible better with health slots, and place in the Scaling Resists IO, but, eh. Shuffled some powers too. Why was Proton Volley at 24 when it opens at 18? No idea. But at its correct place the build now exemps all the way down to Posi 1 like a champ. I'm actually hyped to give it a Pylon twirl and see if I beat my Rad/ninjutsu 4 minutes on the dot. I mean, obviously it will since it has the same slotting but now boasts of Offensive Adaptation on top of KO Blow replacing X-ray Beam every 12 seconds or so. But dare I dream of 3 minute times to beat our reigning pylon king @nihilii? But Offensive Adaptation's 30% does not increase proc damage (tested), so it's not a simple 30% boost across the board considering how many procs are slotted.

It's the exact same damage as all other T9s though. If you'll go to the character creator in game and crank up the slider to 50, then check Fire, Rad, Sonic, etc the numbers are exactly the same with Fire having some extra DoTs, which, yes, will be enhanced by slotting and incarnates.

I haven't leveled this particular build yet, I was just talking about it in the Blaster VS Sentinel and was fresh from having knitted a Spines/Bio br00t for a friend so I went to look at it. But from having played a Fire/Bio in Justin and the Sonic/Bio I'll say that Ablative and Rebuild DNA are OP in keeping someone up. Ablative can be used pre-emptively, or it can be used as a heal, since it heals, casts an absorb shield *and* boosts regen by 200% which is ticking while the absorb shield is being chewed. In my experience with the Fire/Bio I could throw it at +4x8 and it survived fine. It will survive even fine-r as a Rad since we open with Aim + T9 and the T9 100% holds everything (unfortunately Cosmic Burst only Stuns so it does not stack with Atomic Blast's Hold, But KO Blow does have a Hold component) that survived the initial blast.

That Aim time is bothering me. And the recharge on the T9 could be better. If only the set at least had a KD skill that could be used for a Force Feedback proc to accelerat-... HELLO THERE, GENERAL KENOBI! 90% of the time we are in melee anyway, be it to open up with Atomic Blast or use Irradiate in the interim. And I found I rarely used the mass Immobilize outside of farming which I rarely do anyway. So it's a matter of exchanging X-ray Beam whenever the new contender has recharged. HYPE!

I wouldn't exactly trust HD's DPS calculator. I have no fundament for saying this other than their PPM formula isn't kosher just yet. As for Positron I fled from the Psi and Lethal procs to avoid the damage being resisted in the end game. It's two ACC/DMG Hamis, Gladiator's Toxic, Apocalypse Negative, Unbreakable Constraint Lethal (bah for lethal, but it's a purple proc) and Superior Blaster's Wrath Fire (it has recharge, which lowers the overall proc chance, but it counts as a purple which evens out IMO).