TheAdjustor

Strongly agree, and there is a whole thread devoted to fixing the last "fix" of pets, that resulted in so many problems.

Claws all the time every time, it's great. If you want to watch your trays then DB.

Read the first post again. This time read all of it and try paying attention. It hasn't changed since shortly after it was posted.

Well seeing as the rest of that post is a further distortion of what I have said. I'll propose a simple exercise for you, try and come up with a list of topics you would think are problematic by their nature for this forum. Given the fact this statement is not close to anything that was actually said. 1. Fighting words were cited as not being protected by me, so that statement is redundant at best, most likely deliberate in its obtusness. 2. It's a deliberate edit and misconstrual of the the definition which was presented in full and linked to relevant reference material Fighting words are written or spoken words intended to incite hatred or violence from their target. Specific definitions, freedoms, and limitations of fighting words vary by jurisdiction. It is also used in a general sense of words that when uttered tend to create (deliberately or not) a verbal or physical confrontation by their mere usage. I seriously doubt that further engagement between us would be in any way productive. Unfortunately the degeneration of this thread into a back and forth Tit for Tat is exactly the problem with "Nerf X" threads in general. So I probably will not engage with you further because to do so would be me taking part in what I consider a negative for the community.

Let me get this straight, your post questions my self control, acts like nobody ever reacts badly to personal attacks, and questions my upbringing all in one go and somehow pointing out that there are limitations of acceptable in speech in all circumstances is an overreaction. Really ? Once again with the strawman and the passive aggressiveness ? I am talking about requiring a greater standard for threads that call for changes to the game that by their nature are upsetting to many people and "When uttered tend to create (deliberately or not) a verbal or physical confrontation by their mere usage."

Fighting words are written or spoken words intended to incite hatred or violence from their target. Specific definitions, freedoms, and limitations of fighting words vary by jurisdiction. It is also used in a general sense of words that when uttered tend to create (deliberately or not) a verbal or physical confrontation by their mere usage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Seeing as you are attacking an argument that I did not make and have repeatedly disavowed, yes you are making a strawman argument.

Further personalizing this ? Is the goal to provoke me into making personal attacks ? I'll just not that in a thread that has tried to keep this topic as mild as humanly possible, the above strays near the line of insulting me and my long dead parents. Censure, censor, is potato, potatoe here. The point was that the appeal is not to limit all criticism just a very narrow form of it. and even so to just demand a higher stand of care for it. So yes when that's turned into something much much larger that is at the very least a strawman and when it is linked to a subject of emotional import, is very much an appeal to emotion bordering on demagoguery

Back on live most of the people I knew that played Regen wound up farming the wedding band from the "Ring of Pebbles" arc because they needed that extra resist across the board. It's a pretty good idea if you are going to play any set that doesn't include significant amounts of resist.

Absolutely but it brings to mind this observation "If men were angels, no government would be necessary. -- James Madison"

The inherent contradiction is outlined in red. The right of free speech in the public square vs speech in private forum. They are not the same thing and never have been. Not wishing to take this further into politics No it's not. It is entirely about preventing topics that inevitably polarize people, provoke confrontational actions and sow discord. Nerf herding isn't even criticism, it's a demand for harm to be done to how some people play the game. What's more it encourages personal attacks and the personalization of the debate. As it stands the people who dislike the idea of limiting these threads (Perfectly fine position to hold I am not in love with it but see the need for it) , have already fallen to distorting the thread ,creating strawmen, and appeals to emotion to make their points. Your post is a good example to this. The 1st amendment is a true national treasure of the United States. So appealing to the emotion that is associated with it inherently encourages people not to take up the issue but decide it on how they feel about the 1st amendment. It's also a strawman for the simple reason the supreme court has repeatedly and over a very long stretch of time said it does not say what you are trying to say it does. There are all kinds of speech that aren't permitted under it, fighting words, and incitement are good examples.

I always thought the original Alpha slot should have been this and was a bit too much as it was put in. Now that Alpha is here the way it is, this would be a nice way to add incarnate progression in a minimal way. I'D also say that either way it should have to wait on new incarnate content.

Not a problem as long as it applies uniformly. Just looking at the next post illustrates why these are in general bad for the community It has nothing to do with "I don't like this" there are plenty of people have expressed their concern over the negative effects of these threads. Your post not only lumps in everyone that disagrees with it, into one group, it's also self aware that it will cause a negative emotional reaction. As an easy way to dismantle the whole "I don't like this idea", just imagine if general discussion went political.

Thank you for your response it's very much appreciated. My concern is very much that we have started down the slope, and these topics are by the nature very divisive and polarizing, very nearly in the category of "fighting words". While threads requesting new features or buffs may produce disagreement they don't seem to produce animosity. So my worry is that not only do these stir up the community for no good, if by chance the development team is working on something, or is prompted to look at something as a result it will take that animosity up to 11 and beyond. What's more as this becomes a thing, instigating them will become something of a sport for those inclined.

Not trying to be argumentative or passive aggressive but intent is very hard to discern and it's inevitable as time goes on, not only will these threads get worse but they will result of banning of people that weren't trolls because they simply got too torqued up by the trolling. Edit was trying to think of a neutral way to phrase this but imagine certainly strongly held beliefs being raised in a geology or space exploration forum.

At least Champions has a bit of a build system. SWTOR combines best in slot items, with a heres 3 choices 2 are terrible build system.

Well she claimed it was for game balance, we never did get an idea of what game balance she was trying to restore, and finally had a series of proposals that were to have no net effect, and would require an incredible amount of work to implement. At what point do you say troll ? Come on, really ? It's hard to predict how people will react to "I want to nerf something 80%+ of the game is using ?

Sorry it may have been important to them but it was still a troll. You can tell by the effects and the fact they had put nearly zero thought into the delete hasten thread. That isn't an opinion that's fact. You can tell by the time between their post in the Add a smidgen of recharge thread and the time they created the delete hasten thread. Idea pops into head, it's written up with zero consideration of pretty much anything, and even less thought of what it was trying to do. So you are saying I am only against nerfs ? If you recall I dislike your suggestion of giving everyone extra recharge for free. I haven't called for anything against that, or any of the vast number of suggestions of that form I disagree with. The delete X, X is to powerful must be toned down, anything that purports to "restore balance to the game" without even communicating an idea of what balance should where it is now and why it needs to be moved back is going to be incredibly divisive no matter what because everyone has different ideas and opinions of what those things should be. Take a look at the Nerf TW thread. Where you had people arguing on the basis of a spreadsheet that had TW at the top and Claws at the bottom of all melee primaries, while actual testing so far shows Claws in the #2 spot and much less differential overall.

Well that's a mistake and shows why it's important to actually read things. I am not against nerfs I am against nerf herding threads and I am not even against all of them just those that are either deliberately or by accident take the form of giant trolls. The delete hasten thread is a good example of this. What are it's core gameplay loops ? and just how do you think the cottage rule applies here ? The way gameplay loops, is used there looks like it's meant as a signifier meant for people to just look at and say "yeah we can't have that". If you fill in the details of what gameplay loops you want preserved you are going to find lots of disagreement on that. Personally much of live gameplay was there because originally paragon studios was desperately worried that people would drop the game like a hot potato if they didn't include a large amount of grinding, and or wanted to maximize the amount they took off the players. $10 for a name change or a respec ? I'm not a great fan of the cottage rule, seeing as it was mostly used as an excuse and was violated when convenient, even so it's hard to reconcile how you view making changes to a game that has been gone for 7+ years will preserve things and keep cottages cottages instead of anything else. Errr no not even close. Unless you are talking about PvP and PvP doesn't play by the same rules as PvE in this game.

Fair enough, I will just make the observation that the buff /change threads don't generally tick people off the way nerf herding does. That's probably because anyone who wants to play a harder game can always do so. They can play without incarnates if they think they are game breaking, they can play without IOs if they think it makes the game to much of a walk, hell you can just not slot your build and take powers off your bar if you want a challenge. It doesn't work the other way, and if somebody's toy gets broken it's usually not fixable.

As a fan of the archery set which only has extra accuracy for it's special, I could get behind this, but it would be insult to injury if the set didn't get an inherent better than 95% chance to hit as well.

Let me ask you this. If you were to nerf hasten how would it change the overall balance between the ATs ? In the only meaningful term how quickly they can complete content. I am not certain of the overall answer but I can think of quite a few examples where it not being available would make the current balance issues much worse. (currently want to do anything on your own, Scrapper, Brute, Stalker would be my goto choices, for the most part not having hasten will be a minor inconvenience for them, for defenders, corruptors, blasters, controllers, and dominators it would be really bad (sentinels ? Don't know))

Except they don't and the plural of opinion isn't "FACT" All they are is "This rubs me the wrong way" Unh hunh, seems like somebody thinks they are better than everyone else

No, quite literally it's the only correct response to someone who says But speaking of fail, when you are stating that without anything to back it up, you literally have failed to make a case.

I agree with what you are saying as far as it goes. You have to recall the OP didn't start this in this thread. They started it in the add a smidge of recharge to swift thread. Matter of fact in that thread they made unsupported assertions about the community and usefulness of hasten and then moved to this thread and continually changed up their position. And no the OP's posts have not been well thought out. (edit because it just needed to be said in case there could be any doubt) To borrow a phrase "At the very best they haven't demonstrated any actual work in making their case"

That's the problem with thread, someone walks into it recently they can be easily confused by it's ridiculousness. It has nothing to do with bullying and everything about "NO YOU CAN"T SCREW WITH PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU ARE BORED". And yes the IDEA WAS DESTROYED. THAT"S WHY IT"S ON ITS 4TH OFF THE CUFF ITERATION. If It hadn't been destroyed we would still be talking about "DELETE HASTEN" ( The first post which has been edited out of existence). Now it's onto REDO THE ENTIRE GAME WAHHHH That one btw comes pre destroyed, no further disassembly required. Yeah well opinions are like anuses everybody has one.