TheAdjustor

There's a big difference between BS and BSing someone. I think she just took a position without really thinking it through and then started looking for things to support it without actually looking closely while discounting anything that might undercut that position. It's common behavior. Everyone does it occasionally or even more often.

You have the numbers on that ? If I recall correctly back in the day Positron just said "overwhelming". With the fitness pool before it was inherent, IIRC you couldn't take just health or stamina, you had to take either hurdle or swift, hence the fun of watching people having trouble jump wall in perez park. (people just didn't take it)

She had her head handed to her about numbers of people using the power and this is her reaction. Take a look at the add a smidge of recharge thread.

There would be outrage, but the bigger problem goes to the whole nerfing a single power concept. There are sets and powers within sets that have been designed or later tweaked to take into consideration high levels of recharge. Deleting hasten would mean just about every set in the game would need to be looked at and adjusted so it performs properly. In dominators and blasters you would need to look at the whole AT since they both live and die by long recharge powers.

Delete the fitness pool and inherent fitness. They were even more widely taken before being made inherents.

Fair enough I can understand and empathize with that position. Personally (and that is a purely personal position) I favor more build diversity. From personal experience you have whole ATs that seem to be slaves to hasten. Blasters and Dominators are very good examples. Domination being such a defining power, and blasters if they want to any kind damage at all are chained to aim, build up and hasten.

I never gave mom enough credit for her prowess at BS detection. Lets see you have gone from virtually nobody takes it to it's something that everyone has to have. What's more in your world people don't understand how to play their builds or when to use their powers but understand hasten is a must have and they know when to use them faster ? P.S. You don't absolutely have to take power pools, You can make a build with just one or two don't think so ? I suggest reading the standardized primary test thread. Have you missed the entirety of this thread where people were talking about how it would be nice to have a good attack chain without being forced into hasten ?

LOL, Must be nice to be queen in a land of stupid peasants. Just out of curiosity how did you reach this conclusion about the ignorance of the masses? Somehow I think people (the great mass) are aware of how much damage their abilities do and actually do work to be the most effective players they can be/

My mom before she passed away was very fond of the phrase figures don't lie but liars sure can figure. Oddly enough she was the financial controller for manufacturing firm. Anyway looking at the number For level 50 characters hasten is the number 1 pool power pick Speed Hasten 53,580 Tough is a distant number 2 with 35k and change. And oddly enough that's out of 60,348 of those are Level 50 So that's practically 90% Looks like an overwhelming and nearly forced pick to me. What's more it looks like a lot of people as they level decide it's absolutely needed.

Just amplifying in separate post, not sure if this doesn't deserve it's own topic. Just what should you be forced to take run your optimal attack chain ? As things stand people generally wind up taking 3-5 picks to slot LotG +7.5 whether or not the abillities are particularly germane to their build/ concept. Then the +recharge chase starts up. This is so antithetical to the core of the game which is make your concept and then make it awesome, it's not funny. Having a way to get what you need just through power picks would be something that would breathe a lot of fresh air into the game.

No and a thousand times no to everyone that worries about power creep. Recharge for most people is generally very deep into the land of diminishing returns. Example a 10 second recharge power 0% Recharge : 10 seconds 60% Recharge : 6.25 seconds (typical set slotting) 80% Recharge: 5.25 seconds 100% Recharge : 5 seconds 120% Recharge: 4.5 seconds 140% Recharge : 4.17 160% Recharge : 3.85 180% Recharge : 3.57 200% Recharge : 3.33 230% Recharge : 3.03 (Perma hasten and 60% in power recharge) 260% Recharge: 2.78 ( adding a full 30% as a power pick to that) 400% Recharge : 2.0 You just don't get that much from additional recharge. Once you have enough to run your optimal attack chains and a little extra to cover debuffs it's not that particularly important at all. Some sort of recharge global would be very nice for people that don't want to take hasten, it's practically a forced pick but do want to be able to run their attack chains.

Hey killing 3 minions should be enough for anyone.

No sense discarding anything is there ? If it's amenable we could do this as google sheets everybody could maintain their own times and just copy paste into the master.

I don't think it should be a free pick. But I would like to see a power in the speed pool that would be a 10% to 20% +recharge power. It would make a nice swapout for whirlwind (has anyone actually taken that ?) If the devs weren't committed to no more mutually exclusive power pics, having a 35% passive recharge boost that you could take instead of hasten would be great as well.

I like that but I would just go with perm temp powers. The jetpacks just need an invisible option.

Actually that's just not so. You can buy one of the "run" powers with a brand new character no money while you are in outbreak.

That's not so much the case anymore. There's Travel Powers available from P2W that are good enough for the people that want an extra power choice to min max but are kind of crappy on concept.

Not as much as you might think there's good build reasons to slot it.

Hasten is kind of up there with the self res. Even the blaster can have access to a self res via epics. It strikes me that a run over 2 minutes should be done as a base sample and the same setup with hasten. Which would give an insight into just how much recharge is a factor for the the set. Claws is a good example here. Hasten will let you stack followup higher but it's a very short window, while with sets that have long recharge attacks and some form of build up ability, it will let you get those combos off much more frequently. The self rez is more problematic as eliminating runs where you die will skew the data, and may well understate how much mitigation the sets provide.

Claws is an interesting case here as well. IIRC the cone sets aren't actually cones so much as a circular sector. Also there is the rather large difference in performace if KB=>KD IOs are allowed.

Bingo, they were the start of paragon studios getting real serious with nickle and diming people. Got worse when they started selling power sets ala carte.

@Sir Myshkin 1) Fully agreed , with the caveat that this sort of mission is much more representative of solo/ team game play than say the pylon challenge. This is doubly so when you mention your troubles with runners something that war mace really didn't have because it was stunning everything. 2) I agree self rez shouldn't be removed but it does have to be acknowledged. Having the self rez allowed me to press the envelope and herd larger than I normally would with this sort of build. Allowing the self rez to be used and recording the times is a position that needs to be examined, the same way excluding them is , and so would be formulating a penalty for it. 3) I actually see this as a very good test for any AT and any combination. It's fundamentally the basic scenario for the game. Go into a mission and defeat some number of enemies. 4) Thank you for the hasten data. As you said no great surprise.

That's correct. First activation to last activation.

Second this.

If you want real progress go into the code. From what I have seen here and taking as fact. There has been a server that removed brawl without issue. Not being burdened by trying to defend someone's position, testing that here seems to be the obvious solution. I doubt many would be upset if it were removed or replaced with an equivalent ranged attack (say 80 foot range and .75 damage of brawl) Otherwise there was the suggestion of moving the Lich AI, or the Protector Bots AI. All very good (especially changing the range of minion brawl). But dancing around and obfuscating things without actually looking at things will just endlessly get this further mired .