Sunsette

Those are some good points, Fedifensor -- I think if your Primary or Secondary set has additional synergies like that, that's absolutely something to note. However, while you can go ranged with fire mastery, unless you have a major source of knockback in your build elsewhere, I think you'd be better off going electric. Paralyzing Jolt does better damage, costs less end, is the same magnitude, has a faster range, much faster recharge, much better accuracy and it drains end and recovery. Its status effect is slightly worse (disorient vs. hold). Chain Fences is straight-up better than Fire Cages if you aren't dealing with Knockback; half the recharge, better range, and significant end draining and recovery redux. We should probably build some sort of guide to the Ancillaries and Patron Power Pools for Sentinel, it feels much more important across the whole of them than it did for the ATs I tried before. I'm experimenting with Fire more heavily right now, having been Electric for a while -- I think I'll come back and make Electric my build 2 and focus on control there. The damage increase compared to my primary powerset is significant. Cremate hits very hard and Fire Sword Circle's 40s base recharge means it has a high chance to proc additional damage, making it a strong alpha. My only complaint with Fire Sword Circle is that its range is very small; I've slotted Cremate for Range so it has the same 10 foot range as Fire Sword Circle and it helps me estimate what will and won't be hit. The biggest thing to note about the epic powers that I didn't before is that the more your build uses them, the faster you will lose endurance. They are very costly. I have 115 Endurance, have 3.43 End/S Recovery, and the Performance Shifter and Panacea procs. I still have to use both Energize and Defensive Opportunity to recover endurance when I'm going ham on AOE. Granted, I also have ten toggles. -

It's level 45 already.

The only way I could ever see this being OK would be via AT switching the way we build switch now. And there's no way that's not going to be complicated to code in. Sorry, I hope this never happens.

Resistance and Damage buffs are on the same layer of attack calculations, unless I've made a significant misunderstanding. Let's take Power Bolt for comparison and assume all attacks that matter are slotted around 95% damage to begin with. 42.13 damage (Sentinel) 52.66 damage (Blaster) Sentinels have a built in -5% resistance on their targets, and another -20% they can add conditionally. We'll also add your 30% damage buff. This comes out to 42.13*(1+(95+25+30)/100), which simplifies to 42.13*2.5, or 105.325 damage. Without opportunity, it's 42.13*2.3, or 96.899 damage. Without your IOs either, it's 42.13*2, or 84.13 damage. The blaster has about 25% more damage base before defiance, which is underneath the resistance/damage layer, and a blaster can generally keep a 3 or 4 stack of defiance up, which is 19.8% damage on a three stack. This comes out to 52.66*(1+(95+19.8)/100), simplifying to 52.66*2.148, or 113.11368 damage. If in a team scenario a blaster is hitting the same target as the sentinel, this is 52.66*2.398, or 126.27868. So: Sentinel (Enhancements only): 84.13 Sentinel (No Opportunity, IO damage stacking): 96.899 Sentinel (Opportunity, IO damage stacking): 105.325 Blaster (Enhancements and Defiance only): 113.11368 Blaster (+Opportunity): 126.27868 Note I was very conservative on the defiance strength. What's more, the blaster will probably pick up a comparable amount of +damage without prioritizing it. Damage often comes as just a matter of course while getting set bonuses that matter more; my sentinel didn't prioritize +damage, and has +23%. My blaster didn't prioritize it either and has +26%. The math and my personal experiences suggest that the Sentinel will be able to outright survive far more situations once IO'ed, but will not have meaningfully more survival time on most 'hard' content other than the Miss Liberty Task Force or Shadow Shard (since the Sentinel will be able to put reasonable effort into defending against Psy). For incarnate stuff, most is S/L/E, and it's coming at anywhere from a 25 to a 40% damage drop -- 25% from the basic scaling, the rest from defiance, the fact that Blaster gets stronger alphas, that the blaster has a higher damage cap than Sentinel, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So while "Sentinel is 60% of Blaster Damage" is on the high end of this calculation, and not a statement I'd make, I think it's defensible and certainly feels accurate in soloing situations where the Sentinel is fighting much harder against a Boss, Elite Boss, or Arch Villain's regen. I don't have numbers in front of me, but I wouldn't be surprised, for example, if it turned out that my Sentinel takes about 167% of the time to kill an EB as my Blaster. It feels accurate. This should in no way be taken as a statement that the solution is to just +25% the Sentinel's damage, I don't think that remotely. While I think the Sentinel could use a damage increase, it would be poor design to make it equal damage to the blaster simply because they have comparable survivability in much content at level cap with IO optimization. That's the extreme case scenario for both of them.

It's worth pointing out that based on the numbers, you get a lot more defensive benefit from well placed IOs than offensive. Incarnate works the other way but Hybrid only has 50% uptime.

One change to Opportunity which I think would make the AT better overall is turn it into a stacking debuff on target. Every attack gives a stack to the target. Each stack is a -Res/Def debuff. Get to X stacks on a target, trigger an offensive bonus just for you. Get to Y stacks, trigger a defensive bonus. Switch targets, lose all stacks. AoE attacks put stacks on only a mob with stacks already (if included I AoE) or your target (for targeted AoE) or strongest mob affected (if no stacks inside and no target). This rewards a specific style of play (“Keep focusing down one enemy”) while keeping the team play (“Hit my target for better attacks”) and keeping the offensive and defensive opportunities fairly intact (while taking them off of specific attacks for those that either skip those powers or actively use them). I don't think I'd like this change, personally. Opportunity isn't a great mechanic as-is, no, and I think as far as high-concept 'fixing the class' it's more important to be fixed. But in order to make the most of my AoEs I have to target switch heavily (and also guess that, hopefully, another important kill target will be one of the ones semi-randomly chose since I go over target cap so often). It's very dumb that this game requires targets for cones, since it limits cone placement so much. I can see where you would assume that is what I was thinking. I'm not basing a judgment based on Assault itself. In other words, I'm saying moving a power from 82 damage per activation to 90 damage per activation is the threshold of where "acceptance" is. Or we add 3 more damage to a 30 damage T1 power and so on. I realize the damage adds up once all attacks considered are enhanced, but that value isn't going to be an earth shattering metric. If 10% is all it would take to make more people think the damage was acceptable, then the hyperbolic arguments about current performance seem even more absurd. (Not accusing anyone specifically, but the overall gauge of community feedback around the "Sentinels SUCK" --- but if they did 10% more damage it'd be good. Give me a break.) This is why Xao was hesitant to give numbers I think. I gave a range (10 to 20%) and spoke in probablies for a reason -- it's hard to say without actually seeing it in action. But I think it does matter quite a lot. - Defensive Opportunity is a lot better than people give it credit for. While Opportunity is not a very fun mechanic as-is for various reasons, the offensive boost on offensive opportunity is low enough and the end return on defensive opportunity is great enough that I don't think it matters heavily for the leveling experience which one goes off when the attack chain forces you to take the wrong one. Neither is a dramatic immediate improvement to your life over the other, but something that to make the most out of you've planned. - 10 to 20% is a big difference considering how slow it is for Sentinels to finish getting their defenses up (as someone else noted) and how often I've basically died while leveling as a result of having multiple 'almost dead' enemies, as well as how sluggish and slow it can be to finish off a single hard target now that I'm IO'ed up. Regeneration means 10% more damage can be a lot more than 10% less time to kill a target. Fire having a solid-feeling kill speed sort of backs me up I think -- most of the people 'in the wild' who seem to be most satisfied with their sentinel are Fire, Beam, or Bio Armor which either up the damage in a big way or drop -regen to make hard targets not so hard.

imo: KB to KD IOs are mandatory in the AoE attacks, but entirely skippable (and in fact, should be skipped) on the single target. Better targeting and better positioning outweigh the loss of an enhancement slot just so you don't kick around a single enemy that cons red or lower that you're focusing on beating right at that moment. The best two ST attacks are Power Push and Focused Power Blast. As long as you have one out of the T1 or T2, that's enough -- I prefer the T2 because Defensive Opportunity is better than many people give it credit for, but you only need one. I personally take both, however. I think the biggest question in Energy is "do I want Energy Torrent or do I want Nova". Energy Torrent means I'm focusing on being ranged because cones benefit a lot from additional range. I want to slot +range, I don't care so much about KB on single targets since it can work great with the cone. Nova means I don't want knockback ever; everything needs to stay grouped as tightly as possible because I'm basically melee. I don't think a build benefits a lot from having both because ET's cooldown is so short and its damage so average while Nova is a really powerful alpha with a long cooldown that even fully IO'ed you're gonna use like twice a pack at best. Both depend heavily on positioning while Explosive Blast is positioning agnostic basically and great for tripping people but the lowest damage by far of them.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I hope they let us know what they're thinking when they begin to move on that front, though I know we've got to finish the Blaster Snipe push at the least first.

true Fly, Super Speed, etc. are good enough to take anyway. (Afterburner is such a big deal). This would be a great QoL change for my character I wanted riding a hover board.

Flat 10% damage increase at the base power level (rather than in the damage bonus layer) would probably do it, yeah. 10% would make such a big difference when chewing through regeneration of +1 boss mobs, I feel. But hard to say without actually trying. I did Lamba yesterday and I felt amazing -- during the part where we're hunting containers, I remember feeling like, "my Brute never could have done this, not in the same way." My sent was flying with afterburner, setting off at a distance, sniping the containers with IO-boosted range to be out of aggro, holding as a fill-in tank for the lighter blasters waiting for a true controller or brute/scrapper to show up and take a mob. It was the only time I've felt like the sentinel experience was unique rather than a limited version of another AT's experience, and I shouldn't have had to wait to be 50+3 to find that moment, y'know?

I can't speak for Xao, and it's hard for me to say without actually having 'feel'. I'd estimate, though, that I think Sents are roughly: - 10-20% too low in ST damage for a 'solo AT' - 5% too low in defenses and 50% too low in threat and HP for an Off-Tank - 25 to 50% of the uptime that Opportunity needs for a support AT with a need for more Endurance if they're expected to bring Leadership toggles to shore up their lack of group friendliness. I don't think all of these need to be tweaked -- if more than one was fully tweaked, in fact, I think it'd make the AT broken and too powerful (though we already have other ATs that suffer from that issue with the VEATs). But I think adjustment in those ranges are appropriate. I actually think sent does fine fully IO'ed out but it feels lacking -- safe, yes, but boring and lacking -- on the way up to 50 IMO. Brute and Scrapper are generally safer choices (better defenses, better HP, they kill threats faster) and a good deal less boring. It wasn't until very late that I felt like my build was mechanically rewarding to play. Were I they I'd go with 5 to 10% more damage I think, and doing the following to the Masteries: - Replace Mind Probe with a heal and make Link Minds a toggle (Psionic Mastery) - Add +damage effect to Warmth (Fire Mastery) - Add +end effect to Rehabilitating Circuit (Electric Mastery) And similar small touch-ups on other APP sets to make it so Leadership and Fighting Pools aren't competing so hard with the APP on an AT that has to grab heavily from both primary and secondary. I'd also probably merge Offensive and Defensive Opportunity so either the T1 or T2 trigger an identical power with all of the effects of each one combined.

LRM absolutely needs that change -- it and a buff to Body Armor would transform the APP.

Mids is correct. The Epic Pools break down this way: Electricity is the best option for the all-around sentinel. I slot Grav Anchor chance for Hold in my Electric Fences and three Hami-O Dmg/Mezzes (which seem to affect the strength of the proc hold, so low chance to proc but high duration when it hits) and I'm basically a discount controller that can tank. One more power selection (that I'm strongly considering) and I can do solid ST disorients too. It has a solid heal, but the heal can't be used soloing. Psionic is the support sentinel APP. Link Minds isn't great for soloing due to its high animation time, but you can do powerful sleeps with good ST damage holds and a very high damage close range attack. Fire is here for melee sentinels, especially if you really needed an IO bonus from a PBAoE that you'll actually use. On paper, Cremate isn't as good as Mind Probe or Havoc Punch, but it's a less resisted damage type than Psychic and way faster cooldown. It's also higher base damage per animation second than 95% of a Sentinel's primary repertoire, and the self-heal works best in a cluster but will do OK solo. Fire's immob is to keep enemies from running, with AoE grouping a secondary concern. Ice is also here for melee sentinels -- it trades out the self heal and PBAoE damage for PBAoE controls and minor effects to reduce the damage your main target deals. Ninja is def dropping, a hold, and a placate -- it's for Sentinels who want to be in the middle of the action but aren't focused on damage so much. I have not seriously looked at Dark or the Patron Pools as of yet but they show a lot of this kind of forethought. Like, you don't go Mu Mastery if you want wide AoE immobs; you go Mu Mastery when you want to lock a few targets down while doing OK damage, and go harder into end draining as a build conceit ending in getting a pet that also does End drain. TL;DR: Sentinel epic pools are really, really interesting and essential to understanding and making the most of the class. With different epic pools you can actually role switch between your different builds, which is something the other ATs don't have. The epic pool is where you settle your class down into melee, support, control and what flavor it is. None of the options make you harder into blaster or tanker though, which is why I think it tends to get overlooked (and electric works best for the blaster with minimal investment). I'm getting ready to build a second Sentinel build that goes more heavily into controlling as a build conceit for teaming.

With energy blast it has to be the reverse order (Offensive, then Defensive) and it doesn't always work.

The End Drain is getting heavily underestimated here. I have literally zero attacks on my character that drain end other than from my quite spammable APP AoE -- and the immediate result I noticed solo after I switched to it from a nearly identical Fire APP was that I survived better. The attack takes off 10% (13% with my alpha) off of everyone's end about every 5 seconds. It definitely adds up when things aren't instantly dying.

So I went back to record the issue for justicebeliever and.... it's not happening now? I'm not sure what caused it but now I can't get it to trigger -at all-. So this is some sort of elusive sometimes bug I think.

As the thread title says. Today I found out that I have to unslot my Alpha ability or get Exemped down whenever I want to RP walk because if I don't, I will do a hilariously sped-up unnecessarily sexy walk at 5 MPH or so rather than 3. Alpha Slot abilities in general seem to bug out on the interface if repeatedly slotted and unslotted (as I discovered trying to find the solution to why I suddenly was walking at twice the speed of all my friends). Interesting to note is that the reported speed in the attributes window is unaffected by the alpha slot enhancement, suggesting that it's really, really not supposed to be affected to begin with. I had to do physical testing in order to confirm that I was moving stupid fast.

That sounds like a lot more fun tbh. ... Wonder if that's what that Sentinel in my TF was talking about when he said it worked 'exactly like a ranged brute'.

Be nice if there were a few more sets that offer range bonus though I guess it's a balancing feature -- those of us who can put up with only +20% range benefit from higher defenses, etc. that come with full-slotting rather than frankenslotting. It is amazing how much even +20% range increase is game changing for cones though. My Energy Torrent at 48 feet is ridiculously better than it was at 40 -- much better group coverage.

Any sentinel defense-based secondary can easily soft-cap defense. From playing around in Mids/Pine's, I feel like most of the resist secondaries have to give up a bit too much to softcap. Not that they can't do it, but it feels like it's not worth it to me. That's just theorycrafting, though, haven't actually tried using the resist secondaries here. All reports are that Bio Armor is probably the best secondary for every class that gets it.

it would be the simplest solution though I still feel like it'd need tweaking above that.

Defensive Opportunity is significantly underrated because you can just build to use more end and use DO instead of the tiny OO damage boost. But I don't know if that weird interaction is really a good thing.

Thirded.

Citation needed.

Yeah, while I love the idea of a spontaneous tactical choice that has to be made, I think the primaries might need a significant rework to actually support that. I would love to have made some brilliant proposal that works with just the intent but I can't think of one.