Kaika

If stalkers didn't have AoE they would be by far the worst AT in the game... and they kinda were back in the day. Even back before IO's and incarnates stalkers just kinda didn't realistically work on most larger teams. There is a reason this AT used to be the least played non EAT in the game. Scrappers, blaster, Corrs and even brutes can dish out some serious single target damage, even enough to keep fairly close with stalker in this day and age, and back then scrappers were flat out better. While Having a AT that only really deals in single target sounds great on paper, it does not really work in a game where there is about 16 enemies in most groups, without adding a EB or a AV to most spawns, and even then you would need to nerf the single target of every other AT to give them real value.

As someone who's first 50 was a Katana scrapper back in like Issue 2 or something, I can confirm that, no, it did not, it's always had a absolutely tiny cone and range. As other have pointed out it is really nice as a way to proc -res from Gladiators Fury, and can fairly consistently land on 2 targets solo. I don't think the power itself needs a buff as its a VERY good power, I feel the issue comes more from Ninja blades lack of Lotus Drops, making its only AoE a admittedly nice cone, that's very held back by its target cap. Like alot of the early stalker sets, it drops a AoE, which really holds it back in today CoH. Considering how long this set has been in the game, I don't think bring Lotus drops back is a viable option though. Honestly I think a better way to go about this would be to give Flashing steal the Power Crash treatment that EM stalkers get, increasing its target cap, and maybe range slightly, to give the set a bit better AoE presence. No need to mess with Golden Dragonfly

While the amount of data you have gathered here is stagger I'm not entirely sure about all the rotations listed here. For example a optimal Dual blades stalker shouldn't have vengeful Slice in their build as the DPA is atrocious, the Rotation in general goes BU(when up)>AB>AS>SS>AS This not only skips any powers with poor DPA but also lets you utilize the sweeping strikes combo, and make sure you have good uptime on achilies heel. You could probably place Zapp right before AS as it does not break the combo but I never felt the need for it myself as it delays AS, which has a extremely high DPA even without criting. With how you are doing thing here you might not be able to meet this requirement for this rotation as you aren't slotting the powers for any recharge. I suppose this may have been done in the sake of keeping everything somewhat standard but in this case it's likely hampering the performance of the set. Sorry I'm aware you mentioned you aren't a expert on all the rotations and I don't wanna be hard on you for that but I felt it needed to be said as people are already linking and quoting this

Well since this post has been bumped I want to make a argument about something that has been bugging me for a while about this tier list, I have some small gripes about the positioning of some power sets but one has been bugging me quite a bit. Rad Armor should be A tier It seems to get put into C teir just due to the fact that "It's a resistance based set" but I don't think that's fair to this set at all. First of all Stalker is a DPS focused class, and while dead DPS deal no damage, it should really not be your first priority when judging a secondary, Rad has MASSIVE offensive benefits that really are not being accounted for in this tier list, which seems more important to me for a AT specializing in damage. Even ignoring that, Rad is a VERY survivable set on stalker, its not JUST resistance, it's also alot of Absorb, and regen, and you can reach S/L def caps with IOs giving it EXTREMELY high survivability. But too be more direct to the point of why I think Rad armor is a A tier set is how much AoE damage it can add to character, and how that AoE can allow the BU reset proc to shoot you to the damage cap while solo. Radiation therapy, if proced out, hits hard enough to be a DPS gain on single target, let alone at it's target cap, which is VERY easy to hit due to it's massive 15 yard range. Ground Zero Just adds to this, and while it's DPA isn't anything to write home about it's massive 30 target cap IS. Which brings us to what I think truly makes this set shine, "Assassin's Mark: Chance for build up", while I don't entirely know how the math works, the chance for it too proc is magnified with the amount of targets hit, meaning AoEs like ground zero and radiation therapy proc it almost everytime they are used in larger groups. This can legitimately and fairly regularly bring you to DPS cap in normal content solo. That's not even going to the utility of things like meltdown, which normally caps your Resistance to everything 50% of the time, or the fact that rad is one of the few stalker sets with a massive amount of +recovery in things like gamma boost and particle shielding, making it one of the only stalker sets that has little to no endurance issues. Oh and it also has a decent bit of -regen in Radiation therapy just in-case you needed more reason. While I find most of the other residence of the secondary C tier belong there, in my experience radiation armor is up there with Bio and often better in most average missions just due to it's AoE presence.

I'm talking "Meta" in terms of organized speed run groups, your normally don't see them recruiting outside their own groups, but it does happen on occasion. The ones who generally recruit publicly are usually more balanced in team comps since you have a bigger variety in skill levels, whats available and what people want to bring. Due to the absurd amount of buffs/debuffs/heals meta groups bring (usually 7 corruptors) you really don't need a tanks survivability, and a skilled scrappers can mange aggro very well, though with this setup they hardly need too since everyone is capped in just about every survival stat, it's usually more to manage positioning and for the harder hitting AVs. Taking a step back from optimal speed run play and things open up alot, if someone else for example is handling aggro and the team is a bit more spread out in terms of roles stalker becomes quite a bit better since it can manage its damage and survivabilty very well on its' own, not to mention having some of the best single target in the game. In terms of what sets to use, I have to agree with everyone saying ice, particularly for Aeon since I think they are weak too it, though just about any other good set like energy could do really well. Honestly as long as you avoid the weaker sets and probably bring something with at least a OK AoE you should be fine with most primarys. Secondary I would say Bio, Shield, rad, SR, or stone would be your best bet. Bio is one of the best offensive sets in the game, adding alot of extra damage in the form of procs, which work well with a Kin and has a abundance of absorbs and Regen which work nicely with the barrier spam just about every 4* group is running. Shield is good for grant cover giving Def debuff protection, and more def, shield charge and the +DMG is also very nice. SR is basically immune to Def debuff which can be VERY handy, and comes with some nice recharge. Rad comes with two powerful AoEs which can both reset BU if you don't have a kin or missed FS, and Absorbs and regen like Bio. Stone, like Bio has 100% procs that can add alot of damage, on top of capped HP and good regen. Again though, most sets would work fine, but in terms of 4*, but if building for it I would focus on sets with good offensive benefits, as your group will likely cap you on most defensive stats through barriers and buffs.

I feel like MMs comes in two flavors "Set pets to aggressive, put someone on follow and watch a movie" or " So much micro that your APM leaves top Starcraft players in the dust" and there is like no in between.

I've ran my Db/invun on quite a few 4*s, they do very well and are perfectly viable, however will likely never be meta. 1: Scrapper can already do this, almost as well, but brings aggro management, which stalker can't really get, at least not as reliably. Meta teams currently bring a scrapper for this reason 2: This is a null issue, you should basically never be able pull a hard target off someone who has a taunt unless they straight up aren't interacting with them. 3: Anyone can do this, while stalkers get easy access stealth, it's pretty trivial to obtain for other ATs. The burst is nice, not sure where "debuffs" are coming from though. 4: You really wont be soloing things in a proper speed run, and again stealth isn't limited to stalker. This isn't to say stalker is bad at 4* or anything, in fact it has the over all highest single target damage in the game which lends well to 4*'s BEEFY AVs, but when looking at it from a meta standpoint all it has going for it is heavy damage, and a decent bit of survivablity. It definitely can pull it's weight, even on a speed run team, it just usually gets beaten out by bringing yet another corrupter, making it more of a secondary pick, if choosing. In content like this, Buff/debuff are worth their weight in gold and stalker gets very limited access to these. Now if you are running these more casually, even if speeding, a stalker can carry it's weight and then some, with it's great damage, just when optimizing it get left behind along with alot of other ATs.

Haven't used it myself but likely it does not crit, alot of powers are like that. Shield charge also does not crit and works the same way, my guess is this is due to them being a "pseudo pet", you technically aren't dealing the damage yourself when you use it, you are summoning a invisible pet that deals the damage for you. My guess is that making that invisible pet determine your hidden state is too difficult so they opted to just make it never crit. If it works like Shield charge though it shouldn't drop hide, likely for similar reasons.

Well good new, unless they got all those characters to 50 or log in with them all regularly, the names are back on the market for taking. I don't remember the exact numbers but until your reach 50 if you go too long without logging in with that character the name becomes usable by anyone else. The time it takes for the name to become unlocked is relative to the characters level. So as long as they haven't reached 50 and are not active on that character specifically the names are available eventualy. In short, is probably relatively low, unless they just blitzed a ton of toons to 50 in that week.

While I haven't tried it specifically with jaunt, hide is not broken by powers that only effect yourself, I haven't seen a case where moment abilities suppress hide so it shouldn't.

See this is what I meant by "and angers those who want to pretend pvp does not exist" While I think there are a lot of practical reasons why substantial pvp rewards are a bad idea, as your "goal" is controlled by another player and can be easily exploited. The very notion of rewarding pvp in any way or even acknowledging its continued existence is seen as outright offensive to some player for some odd reason. Bringing up a topic like this in general just leads to arguments. Many people drawn to these kinda treads look at purely optional side content and basically don't want ANYTHING encouraging players to try it out, despite this being a relatively normal thing in any MMO with pvp. Seriously I've seen people arguing that badges that you need to pvp for to get, are pve content and shouldn't be in a pvp zone (Aside from the one villain accolade that is pretty bad and should be changed). Regardless of the practicality and exploitation issues, you likely wont find much in the way of constructive discussion here on the topic of PvP incentives, as the topic almost exclusively devolves into complaining about pvp broadly anywhere outside of the pvp forums. Don't get me wrong I have plenty of gripes about the current system I basically stopped pvping in I13 when they changed everything, but people enjoy it and honestly more might if they were encouraged to try. If you hate an optional activity that much that you come into a thread discussing possible rewards just to complain broadly about the activity in general, then good news, it still is and will always be entirely optional, the prospect of them getting rewarded in any way for it should have literally no bearing on you. Long story short while I might personally disagree with this specific suggestion, just because you don't enjoy the activity does not mean those that do shouldn't have nice things.

That seems like a great way to make people kill trade for Aether while hidden in the ocean in WB. In my experience adding more rewards to PvP doesn't make people want to pvp any more, it just makes them look for a safe way to exploit it at best, and angers those who want to pretend pvp does not exist at worst. They tried this with PvP IOs back on live, it didn't really work well.

Spine burst and atom smash are both about 3 Seconds, throw spines is 1.6. Honestly the more I've been thinking about it the more I'm coming around on spines as a solid set for stalker. still ugly though. Rad/Rad should be solid and with the right build a monster I wiped up something quick and dirty by converting my Fire/Rad to Rad/Rad pretty quickly, were I to start from the ground up I might of looked for a way to include proton sweep but, I could also see myself skipping it. Should still be a beast though all the same principals apply and it has the same type of powers. Stalker - Radiation Melee - Radiation Armor3.mbd

Currently have both these on my Radar for my next stalker, Staff seems pretty good for stalker with good AoE's and survive-ability if a little lacking in ST. I'm not gonna lie I think the only reason I don't have a rad melee toon yet is because Mids and the in game info are a bit unclear on the powers true base damage, due to showing the extra contaminated proc as part of the main damage, which just made the idea of trying to make a good build for one a bit annoying, but It looks like it also has really good potential.

I assume you are talking about Thunder strike? Honestly If I were to build this from the ground up I would probaly consider it just for the possibly of more build up reset, but in terms of the raw power, I just don't think its good. Thunder strike tries to be both a AoE and a Single target attack and kinda fails at both, doing too low damage to be worth it from either end. Chain induction is basically the same thing but done right. I haven't messed with rad melee on anything really so I wont comment but I do not think spines is a amazing set for stalker as you lose the best power in the set, quills, in the transition. I don't think it's bad but it seems a bit lack luster to me compared to the normal version. Though it could certainly work, just seems a bit more lacking in the single target front. .... I also think it's kinda ugly and am not bias about that AT ALL

For sure with some ATs and power sets, but I don't see it for stalker, the lower base damage means it doesn't play super well with crit even if it can be proc bombed, and its fighting against primary melee options that build Assassin's focus which kinda works a heavy damage inherit proc. While it's technically AoE, the arc is small enough that you are likely not hitting more then 3 very tightly grouped enemies with it tops, and on stalker AoEs only have a 50% chance to crit from hide, lowering its usefulness. I've used it on alot of other ATs but I don't see it in the case of stalker, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though.

Here I modified it a bit, still should be a offensive powerhouse, it does have Brawl slotted but only as a mule for some extra +Def with no plan on being used. I also replaced Cross punch with ball lighting so it has a extra nuke. Modified - Stalker (Electrical Melee - Radiation Armor).mbd

Yeah that's similar to what I would do with maybe a little less S/L def, though I would recommend finding a way to fit Ball lightning in there, even if it means dropping something else. I haven't tested with Ele melee specifically but from what I have tested you don't get the bonus BU reset proc chance from chains or pesudo pets, and that can amount to a TON of extra +DMG and AoE Burst. You can also probably drop the extra procs in health as well, as Rad armor is dripping with recovery and +end. i would also remove a slot in boxing and add it to havoc punch for the massive 5% S/l def bonus. Cross punch also seems a really odd choice as Charged brawl does much better base DPA, and while you can't proc bomb it as much it also generates assassin's focus.

My Fire/rad is damn near unkillable, Maxed res in everything half the time, S/L def at 45% and most other def over 30%, tons of absorb, tons regen, healing and recovery for days. not to even mention how ridiculous the AoE it grants is. I have quite a few stalkers and she is probably the most tanky of them all. People seem to write it off as a "Res" set but is more a Hybrid set that ALSO is a full res set, just doesn't really do def, but you can make up for that with IOs/incarnates. From a offensive standpoint I regularly reach damage cap while solo due to stacking build up resets. I'm not entirely sure how it works but the BU reset chance ATO gets a higher chance to proc the more enemies you hit, leading to larger AoEs Chaining multiple build up uses, Rad armor comes with two of these. On top of that you get +30% damage boost in meltdown that can be up half the time and Radiation therapy can be proc bombed into become a actual nuke that does enough damage to be worth in single target and even gives some hefty -regen for AV/GM slaying. With her damage, utility, and survivability she can both melt AV/GMs solo with ease, and keep pace with fire farmers in a fire farm. She can solo just about any group at 4x8, though stuff like Arachnos I have to be careful about, but that's fairly normal. This is also without relying on things like shadow meld (I took mu for more AoE) IMO Rad armor is the most underrated stalker power set currently. So yeah, I also recommend rad armor

RAISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Huh you're right, somehow I hadn't noticed, the set has quite alot of recovery and +end so I never found it a issue or even noticed, good to know though.

As far as top tier stalker sets IMO: In no particular order Primary EM: King of ST damage and honestly not that bad outside of it. Power crash gets a HEFTY buff compared to other versions of EM making it's AoE manageable. Ice: Great all around DPS, exotic damage type, LOTS of control, great AoE, it lacks a little in ST damage but that can easily be patched with moonbeam or zapp which turns that around completely. Dual Blades: I think people sleep on this one, my main is DB and let me tell you the ST damage it can pump out is nearing EM levels and the AoE is hard to beat. The Sweep combo fits snugly into your single target rotation and add a large AoE to one of your main attacks, the two cones you get are also very powerful and not that hard to line up, Sweeping strike in particular has AMAZING DPA for a single target attack let alone a AoE. Savage: Not sure why we stopped seeing as much after the hemo changes, it's still a power house. It's ST damage didn't need hemo to compete really, and a snipe can be used to fill the force crit spot, but it also comes with rather insane AoE, and is one of the few primary's that can help with endurance useage, which stalker often struggle with. Secondary: Bio: Insanely survivable, and with offensive benefits for days there is a reason this thing is at the top of most list. SR: No major weak points, effective immunity to the scariest de-buff in the game, with some nice extra recharge too boot, only thing it really lacks is a heal which isn't a huge deal EA: Like SR, though can have weak points but with a very strong heal, much more resistances and the ability to actually manage its end Shield: Again like SR, but with more offense and a extra attack in exchange for some DDR and slightly harder to reach soft caps. Rad armor: This one I'm probably gonna see people disagreeing with this as "It's a res set" but the absolute offense that this set provides is just silly. Radiation therapy can be proced out to be one of the most devastating AoEs in the game DPS wise, often beating out power single target options in average DPA, Ground Zero has a target cap of 30, which can more then make up for it's meh DPA and both these proc BU reset on almost every use in groups. Meltdown is IMO the best T9 in the game hands down, TONS of res, Ton of Recovery and a 33% damage buff, with good slotting this is up about half the time, oh and no crash(it has one, I just never noticed XD). I seriously think this is the most slept on stalker set in the game. I spoke more about DB and Rad but that's only because I rarely see anyone talking about them, Honorable mentions to StJ I just think it's AoE is a bit lacking to make it too top teir, but for me it just sorta barely misses this list. Same with Ele but from the other end, I think its ST is still a tiny bit lacking for stalker.

I recently rebuilt my Fire/rad stalker, and I noticed that her single target damage left quite a bit to be desired when on paper she should be absolutely killing it. I did a little investigating and found out that Quick Assassin's blaze in particular has a 1.67s cast time, for what I can tell is no real reason, this cast time is shared with only Ice and BS, which honestly baffle me too, but I'm not as familiar with those sets. Every other quick AS in game has a 1 sec activation time (aside from KM which has a 0.6 for some reason, but kinda needs it). Keep in mind it deals exactly the same damage, it just takes 67% longer to cast for some reason, massively reducing it's effective DPS in a set that isn't dealing that insane DPS. One of the reasons I feel this impacts stalker Fire melee specifically is that it drops a very good attack in incinerate for Assassin's Blaze, effectively dropping the second best attack for the worst assassin's strike in the game, while most other sets seem to drop a cone or one of the weaker attacks, causing it to not get a major boost in single target damage vs the scrapper variant, removing much of the reason why you would choose the stalker version in the first place. Edit: Just did a little more digging and, ignoring crits (which is admittedly a big part of stalker), incinerate and quick Assassin's blaze do almost the same DPA, as their activation time and damage are almost the exact same. I'm not sure why it was designed this way, as this basically removes any real reason to play the stalker version. As far as I can tell no other Stalker set is this way, every other set seems to trade for AS in a way that grants them much higher single target DPS. https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_melee.fiery_melee.incinerate&at=scrapper https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=villain_pets.fiery_melee_assassins_blaze.assassins_blaze_quick&at=stalker

Yeah on stalker I basically always take musculature, the damage is just too good, not to mention the proc issue the recharge creates. Don't worry about trying to find something you can use all the benefits of, its pretty normal to not utilize all the benefits of a Alpha slot. the +end mod from radial is also very nice for stalker as they tend to absolutely chew through end, but this isn't really necessary if you take ageless or just have good end management. Another less known benefit of Musculature is that it actually boost the damage of your judgement incarnate power, but a very significant margin as well, further assisting in your ability to deal damage. This is not to say Agility can't be good on stalker, but generally you would take it more for the defensive benefits. I have both on my main, but I very rarely use agility, and when I do it's only in situations where I will known I need the extra +Def it offers. These situations tend to be rare outside of solo challenge stuff though, or in my case, fire farming on a invun stalker for funnsies. On teams you will rarely be the main damage taker and even in those cases you will likely have buffs supporting you much more then agility would.

Would be hard to judge without seeing the full build in front of me. To answer the first question, while I haven't tried wall of force, the reason for that is the Damage on it seems absolutely abysmal for it's extremely long activation time. Even when considering it as solely a AoE it likely would rarely be worth it. As someone with shuriken, mainly for flavor, it's not awful, but you wont really be missing out on anything if it is skipped, nice to have in the rare situations when getting into melee isn't viable. Maneuvers and/or Assault is always a good pick if you have the power slots available, of the two I would recommend Maneuvers more as it will help you reach those def soft caps much easier while also providing support to your team, however both are useful. As a side note the "staggering 61.7% AoE def " is likely not actually the case as you get a MASSIVE boost to AoE def when hidden that goes away when revealed, which if you are in combat should be 99% of the time def matters. This is to say, your AoE def is realistically MUCH lower.