Focused Feedback: Rage

[Leandro]

Rage [Experimental change]

• Rage will now only crash if stacked. If the power is stacked, crashes will occur at every expiration until it expires completely.
• Rage crash has been changed to 10 seconds of:
  • -999% damage irresistible
  • -10 defense irresistible
  • -20% resist irresistible
  • -20% elusiveness irresistible
• The endurance crash has been removed, the power now instead drains 25 endurance on activation.

[DMW45]

This feels like it punishes players for going for Recharge, or for not paying maximum attention to your status indicators during a fight.  You get punished for using Rage too soon.

 

Why not just have Rage not stack and just have additional uses refresh it, ala hasten?

[RenInferno]

I feel like the definition of when Rage should crash is a little backwards. By the power's in game description, it's more like it should crash only if it ISN'T stacked. Part of the point of building super strength is perma-ing Rage to begin with, and if you end up on a team with -any- recharge buffs, which are honestly common enough that it'll affect this, every time you stack rage, even for a couple seconds, you're now dealing with a crash that effectively drains your ability to damage anything.

EDIT: Changing it so it can't stack but refreshes it with no crash would be an ideal compromise, if you ask me. Rage is one of the powers you set to auto-fire and forget.

Edited September 10, 2019 by RenInferno
Additional input from above post.

[Captain Powerhouse]

That was an originally idea tossed for discussion but quite a few seem to detest the no-stacking nerf, and single stack rage is not as problematic as multi-stacked, why the crash only gets to be avoided if you wait for it to fade before reactivating.

 

Maybe we need a vote survey on that.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[johua]

Super strength isn't even that good with stacked rage, which the set relies on pretty heavily. Also, to my knowledge the live version of rage's crash doesn't apply a -res debuff, so this looks like a pretty severe nerf to a set that's middling at best.

[vonBoomslang]

5 minutes ago, RenInferno said:

I feel like the definition of when Rage should crash is a little backwards. By the power's in game description, it's more like it should crash only if it ISN'T stacked. Part of the point of building super strength is perma-ing Rage to begin with, and if you end up on a team with -any- recharge buffs, which are honestly common enough that it'll affect this, every time you stack rage, even for a couple seconds, you're now dealing with a crash that effectively drains your ability to damage anything.

The problem with that is that it creates a MASSIVE gap between building enough -rech to perma it, and not. Same problem as with permadoms.

 

My gut reaction? Initial yes "ahaha yes burn it to the ground" because I hate that sort of "have it or not" stuff and high recharge builds but that's entirely unfair of me. At the same time, I do not want the crash entirely gone. Maybe tie it to staying in combat in some way (it lasts for Xs + until you leave combat, then crash)?

[Captain Powerhouse]

Just now, johua said:

Also, to my knowledge the live version of rage's crash doesn't apply a -res debuff, so this looks like a pretty severe nerf

This is halving the -def debuff and translating that half into -res. The goal being it’s less punishing to defense builds and more equally punishing to all builds.

[DMW45]

3 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

That was an originally idea tossed for discussion but quite a few seem to detest the no-stacking nerf, and single stack rage is not as problematic as multi-stacked, why the crash only gets to be avoided if you wait for it to fade before reactivating.

 

Maybe we need a vote survey on that.

If there was a way it didn't feel like you were punished for having too much recharge I'd be down, but as it is it doesn't seem like a good change to me.

 

It's mostly just because I'm someone who would have the power on auto, I don't really care about stacking it, but I don't want to have to pay attention to a tiny icon among many in my status indicator or be punished for using it.

[RenInferno]

3 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

That was an originally idea tossed for discussion but quite a few seem to detest the no-stacking nerf, and single stack rage is not as problematic as multi-stacked, why the crash only gets to be avoided if you wait for it to fade before reactivating.

 

Maybe we need a vote survey on that.

I'd still trade no stacking for not having to worry about suddenly doing NO damage in the middle of, say, a long AV fight. 

I'd highly recommend taking it to a server wide vote.

[Haijinx]

You don't need any kind of IO build to perma rage, just 3 recharge SOs so I am confused how this becomes a have vs have not thing? 

 

The -res makes sense because it was hurting defense sets much harder than resist sets.

 

Not sure what elusivity is.  Im guessing a defense debuff?

[johua]

Honest question: why does it need to be punishing to any builds?

Super strength has three (arguably four) good powers in it and I doubt it would be the GOAT if you just straight-up removed the crash, especially in a world where Titan Weapons exists and doesn't have any punishments attached to it.

[SarelFox]

Elusivity is a PVP thing.

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, RenInferno said:

I'd still trade no stacking for not having to worry about suddenly doing NO damage in the middle of, say, a long AV fight. 

Do you not use Rage at all? That's exactly what happens with Rage no matter what you do on the live shards.

[DMW45]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

Do you not use Rage at all? That's exactly what happens with Rage no matter what you do on the live shards.

Didn't used to, though.

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, DMW45 said:

If there was a way it didn't feel like you were punished for having too much recharge I'd be down, but as it is it doesn't seem like a good change to me.

 

It's mostly just because I'm someone who would have the power on auto, I don't really care about stacking it, but I don't want to have to pay attention to a tiny icon among many in my status indicator or be punished for using it.

Should be fairly easy to reduce the amount of slotted recharge in rage so you don't stack self buffed though.  

 

Unless you have so much recharge you double stack with unslotted rage? Lol 

 

Its the teaming which would be tricky.

 

 

[DMW45]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

Should be fairly easy to reduce the amount of slotted recharge in rage so you don't stack self buffed though.  

 

Unless you have so much recharge you double stack with unslotted rage? Lol 

 

Its the teaming which would be tricky.

 

 

Eh, some people use to-hit IOs in there for set bonuses which could be tricky, too.

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

Didn't used to, though.

The only time it ever didn't do that was when it stopped you from using any attacks at all.

[DMW45]

Just now, Vanden said:

The only time it ever didn't do that was when it stopped you from using any attacks at all.

Eh, back when the game was official if you made it perma it didn't crash.

[Vanden]

Just now, DMW45 said:

Eh, back when the game was official if you made it perma it didn't crash.

No, it just didn't debuff defense, which was a bug.

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, DMW45 said:

Eh, some people use to-hit IOs in there for set bonuses which could be tricky, too.

Could still generally plan around that.  Use lower level IOs for the ones with a recharge component.  

 

Not sure which set you'd put in rage though.   Guassian's works much better in tactics.  

 

[Haijinx]

Just now, Vanden said:

No, it just didn't debuff defense, which was a bug.

Yeah, i definitely remember the minus damage on live!  

 

Because I'd always mentally kick myself when i footstomped and a bunch of orange 1s and 2s floated above the bad guy's heads.

[Haijinx]

It also did the end crash on live.  Making my WP/SS a lot easier to manage than my SS/Fire.

 

 

[DMW45]

Welp.  Still, having to purposefully gimp yourself in some way--you can't build *too* well or you'll be punished for it--just seems wrong to me.

 

I just think that refreshing over stacking is the most intuitive way to fix it.

[jojogladco]

17 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

That was an originally idea tossed for discussion but quite a few seem to detest the no-stacking nerf, and single stack rage is not as problematic as multi-stacked, why the crash only gets to be avoided if you wait for it to fade before reactivating.

 

Maybe we need a vote survey on that.

Is there any particular reason this can't be handled with 2 mutually exclusive powers?. Similar to the Sentinel Master Brawler/Practiced Brawler.  Rage stays as a stackable power with the crashes outlined in the patch notes and a new power that's non stackable Rage is added.

[DMW45]

1 minute ago, jojogladco said:

Is there any particular reason this can't be handled with 2 mutually exclusive powers?. Similar to the Sentinel Master Brawler/Practiced Brawler.  Rage stays as a stackable power with the crashes outlined in the patch notes and a new power that's non stackable Rage is added.

That would be perfect as well.